Why am I running out of space?

[coqui]

Hi, most people call me Ray

I worked for Eastern Airlines for 25, starting in 1968 so having flow in the cockpit jump seat of most airliners, I built my first Flight sim way back when a 286 was state of the art, and a 7kb memory was the size of a carton cigarettes all 20 packs. Ok, so to the point. Many yrs. later "I'm back to Simming" and built a new toy. I'm 70+ and maybe have built my last computer: I-9, MSI Edge Z790, DDR 5-68G,, 2 1T SN770 drives and a Nvidia RTX 4080 16g DDR6. This should do fine with anything out there now and hopfully FS2024.

I loaded FSX Delux Edition (the last sim I used before going to X plane 9) to see how my computer was running. Granted, the settings are very hight but running out of memory on a 30min. A flight in a C172 Analog cockpit. The graphics are great considering FS was more into the eye candy, but is there something not setup right. I had planned to go aroung the world kinda project but in 30min. segments?  

[ViperPilot2]

2 hours ago, coqui said:

Hi, most people call me Ray

I worked for Eastern Airlines for 25, starting in 1968 so having flow in the cockpit jump seat of most airliners, I built my first Flight sim way back when a 286 was state of the art, and a 7kb memory was the size of a carton cigarettes all 20 packs. Ok, so to the point. Many yrs. later "I'm back to Simming" and built a new toy. I'm 70+ and maybe have built my last computer: I-9, MSI Edge Z790, DDR 5-68G,, 2 1T SN770 drives and a Nvidia RTX 4080 16g DDR6. This should do fine with anything out there now and hopfully FS2024.

I loaded FSX Delux Edition (the last sim I used before going to X plane 9) to see how my computer was running. Granted, the settings are very hight but running out of memory on a 30min. A flight in a C172 Analog cockpit. The graphics are great considering FS was more into the eye candy, but is there something not setup right. I had planned to go aroung the world kinda project but in 30min. segments?  

 

You are running into the 'typical' issue that many Simmers who used FSX have run and are running into; lag and stutters because the Software cannot utilize the CPU to it's fullest extent. It was written and compiled at a time when Microsoft thought the Hardware was going in one direction, but the Hardware industry chose to go another with the CPU. There were folks who overclocked the fastest Processors available at the time along with wacky things like Water cooling the Processor, and they were still getting lags and stutters at more congested Airports and even with less complex Airplanes.

 

All I could suggest is to turn down the Sliders and try to find that 'happy Medium' where things will operate satisfactorily without any hiccups. 

 

Sorry... but that's the nature of FSX.

[PhrogPhlyer]

16 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

You are running into the 'typical' issue that many Simmers who used FSX have run and are running into; lag and stutters.... Sorry... but that's the nature of FSX.

Well this FSX user, with a modest laptop with 1/4 of the SSHD space and 1/2 of the RAM as Ray and with most sliders maxed has never had lag or stutter issues.

So not sure if I'd be so accepting that this is a "typical" issue or the nature of FSX.

 

 

[lordhearteater]

It may have more to do with how many aircraft are in your hangar, or how much add-on scenery is in use. This FSX pilot does experience lag and stutter issues, but only in areas where I have a lot of intensive scenery add-ons. I also use 2 different freeware weather engines. FSrealWX is used in resource-intensive areas for VA flights, and FSXWX usually suffices for most areas of the world, and all non-VA flights. I have a methodology that works for me, and that is enough. 

[PhrogPhlyer]

3 hours ago, coqui said:

running out of memory

Ray. there is definitely something gong on here.

While running FSX, open the task manager and see what else is also using memory in that background that you may not be aware of.

Perform all of the normal system cleanup and optimization steps, etc.

I do agree with Viper that it "may" other tings that are slider controlled (auto gen, AI traffic, AI boats, etc), but to verify, first put all setting sliders to the minimum, and then increase each individually until you hit any issues.

Each computer is its own beast, and you have to tame yours.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

2 minutes ago, lordhearteater said:

This FSX pilot does experience lag and stutter issues, but only in areas where I have a lot of intensive scenery add-ons. ... I have a methodology that works for me, and that is enough. 

Ray, lordhearteater's comments supports the issue of finding what gives you the sim experience you desire.

Best of luck finding the sweet spot, and have fun!

[lordhearteater]

11 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

 

While running FSX, open the task manager and see what else is also using memory in that background that you may not be aware of.

Perform all of the normal system cleanup and optimization steps, etc.

[SIC]

Each computer is its own beast, and you have to tame yours.


 

 

TRUTH. I use FSX Processkiller and good ol' Task Manager to close out a bunch of superfluous programs. There is a YT vid about how to remove Gamebar Presence Writer that I recommend.  I literally have my FSX, weather engine and a few other FS-related icons in the right side of my desktop in a single column, with non-FS stuff in a single column on the left. Desktop imagery is a rotating selection of my best screenshots, changing every 30 minutes. 

[loki]

Did you install the FSX SP1 and SP2 patches? Being that it's a 32 bit application, it can only use a max of 4GB of virtual address space. Are there any add-ons installed? One cause of out of memory errors is a corrupted or buggy add-on. PMDG has a good guide to FSX and out of memory errors, linked below, that may be useful.

 

https://support.precisionmanuals.com/kb/a108/vas-management-stopping-out-of-memory-oom-errors.aspx

[PhrogPhlyer]

52 minutes ago, loki said:

PMDG has a good guide to FSX and out of memory errors,

Very interesting article. Good to know info even if not currently having memory issues.

Allows for an informed adjustment to settings.

Thanks.

[ViperPilot2]

4 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Well this FSX user, with a modest laptop with 1/4 of the SSHD space and 1/2 of the RAM as Ray and with most sliders maxed has never had lag or stutter issues.

So not sure if I'd be so accepting that this is a "typical" issue or the nature of FSX.

 

 

 

Agreed. What I was drawing on were the memories of a decade ago, where the Forums were awash with Simmers having issue with their FSX installations.

I was just starting out with FS9, and just remember a lot of frustrated folks. 

[jgf]

It is not an FSX issue (FS2004 is also prone to it, as was a video editor I once had) it is a windows problem.  As I understand it windows reserves a certain amount of memory for specific references, it doesn't matter how much RAM you have or how large the swap file, the reserve amount is hard coded and is usually large enough (according to the same MS that said "640k should be enough for anyone"), but apparently some software can flood the system with enough references that windows can't keep up and you get an OOM.

 

I have found one "solution" but it requires manual intervention and doesn't always work, though it works often enough that i always try it.  When you first notice a stutter, pause the sim, wait a minute or so and unpause.  Possibly this gives windows a "breather" so it can catch up, but most of the time I'm good for another 30-60 minutes before stutters hit again. (Though this is with FS2004.)

[loki]

26 minutes ago, jgf said:

It is not an FSX issue (FS2004 is also prone to it, as was a video editor I once had) it is a windows problem.  As I understand it windows reserves a certain amount of memory for specific references, it doesn't matter how much RAM you have or how large the swap file, the reserve amount is hard coded and is usually large enough (according to the same MS that said "640k should be enough for anyone"), but apparently some software can flood the system with enough references that windows can't keep up and you get an OOM.

It isn't a Windows problem, but a limitation from the hardware of the time. The limit comes from 32 bit CPUs which had a limit of the amount of addresses (2^32 = 4GB) available to access every location in the virtual address space (this includes RAM, the page file and hardware like the GPU). In the 32 bit Windows days Microsoft split the address space between the operating system (including drivers) and running applications for desktop systems (32 bit servers were a bit different), so each half got 2GB to run in. One could use the old /3GB switch to change the balance if you knew what you were doing, but the default ensured the OS and (most) applications both had enough space to run. If the application filled up its address space and hit the limit (nothing to do with Windows not keeping up), you got the OOM errors we run into, though the OS and other applications would be fine as they have their own address spaces.

 

With the jump to 64 bit systems, the virtual address limit was significantly increased, so there was no need to limit the OS or applications the same way. However, 32 bit applications still couldn't access anything more than the 4GB, so are still capped. If the application was well written, a flag could be set so it can access 4GB rather the old 2GB of address space.

 

As much fun as it is to bash Microsoft, they do have some smart people working on the core of Windows who know what they're doing.

[jorgen.s.andersen]

Loki is correct, it's usually the VAS space that one runs out of, and that is unfortunately a hard limit, due to FSX being a 32-bit application.

 

But there is something a user CAN do within that limitation - try to go here:

 

 

 

This is a page that I used to tweak my own system way back when I had FSX, and some of it is actually applicable to P3D today.

 

Jorgen

[PhrogPhlyer]

8 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Agreed. What I was drawing on were the memories of a decade ago, where the Forums were awash with Simmers having issue with their FSX installations.

I was just starting out with FS9, and just remember a lot of frustrated folks. 

Appreciate your update, and as always, your experience and perspective.

[Skywatcher12]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:11 PM, jgf said:

It is not an FSX issue (FS2004 is also prone to it, as was a video editor I once had) it is a windows problem.  As I understand it windows reserves a certain amount of memory for specific references, it doesn't matter how much RAM you have or how large the swap file, the reserve amount is hard coded and is usually large enough (according to the same MS that said "640k should be enough for anyone"), but apparently some software can flood the system with enough references that windows can't keep up and you get an OOM.

 

I have found one "solution" but it requires manual intervention and doesn't always work, though it works often enough that i always try it.  When you first notice a stutter, pause the sim, wait a minute or so and unpause.  Possibly this gives windows a "breather" so it can catch up, but most of the time I'm good for another 30-60 minutes before stutters hit again. (Though this is with FS2004.)

You need to run the 4gb patch in FS2004 and you should never see this problem.

https://ntcore.com/?page_id=371

Patch should absolutely be run for FSX but won't solve the VAS problem. It'll only reduce it as FSX will still use more memory than 4gb.
VAS and CPU speed are the 2 reasons I don't use FSX and stick to FS2004.
"Possibly" one day CPU won't be an issue in FSX but VAS will never have a cure.
 

[alanmerry]

I don't know if this applies to FSX, but in FS2004 the only time I have run out of memory is when there has been a landclass file in a scenery folder.  Landclass scenery .bgl files need to be in their own folder (eg landclass/scenery) and that folder should not have a texture folder in it.  I hope this helps, rather than adding to the confusion!

[loki]

6 hours ago, Skywatcher12 said:

Patch should absolutely be run for FSX but won't solve the VAS problem.

 

If you have FSX SP2 or Acceleration installed you don't need the 4GB patch as the largeaddressaware flag is already set.

[Cas141]

Seen this late. Maybe I’ve got “hold of the wrong end of the stick”, but is the problem here  one of running the sim without it being “Activated “?

Thus it runs for a while before stopping. The systems specs are such that if it is fully activated it should run ok, in any event not regularly shut down after 30 mins