How about a simple Challenge Flight for us Niners?

[jgf]

On 9/20/2023 at 12:48 PM, taoftedal said:

a Focke-Wulf Fw 190

Only one I've found is "FW190.zip", contains a couple of different versions converted from CFS2 by R.A.Baum from originals by Akemi Mizoguchi.

[jgf]

3 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Hey @jgf... Tell me about the US Trip you posted! What kind of airplane did you fly for this back in '05? It really looks interesting and fun! 

 

It visits the capital city of each state.  Have flown it several times over the years in numerous aircraft;  first time was a Twin Otter, but also done in the Trimotor, DC-3, P-38, Cessna 150, Do-27, F-16, Curtiss Condor, Lear jet, etc. (tried in a helicopter, Bell 412, but haven't the patience).  Overall straight line distance is just over 9000 miles, with legs from 40mi to 460mi;  an optional side trip to Juneau, added between Olympia and Salem, adds about 1700mi (this makes the longest leg over 800mi, which eliminates some aircraft ...since my "rule" was to do the entire trip in the same aircraft and only land in the capital cities).  Haven't flown it recently since Active Sky no longer works and variable weather was part of the fun.

 

Took the concept further with a World Capitals Tour which visits, oddly enough, the capital city of each nation (and learned that two countries have more than one capital city, one country has no capital city, one capital has no airport, and three countries have no airports);  this is just under 100,000mi straight line distance yet isn't an around the world flight since it doesn't cross the Pacific.  At the other extreme is a series of short hops around the county seats of each county in Ohio (88 of them), average flight around 30mi (working on a similar tour for Alabama).

[ViperPilot2]

2 hours ago, jgf said:

Only one I've found is "FW190.zip", contains a couple of different versions converted from CFS2 by R.A.Baum from originals by Akemi Mizoguchi.

 

This one is from AF Scrub... 

 

 

Thanks for the Reply regarding your USA Flight! Looks like something I'd like to try! 

[ViperPilot2]

First Test Flight just to see if I can actually do this, and to see the bird in flight... 

 

 

[JSMR]

Likewise!! 

 

[taoftedal]

Stayed with the Sea fury and completed the first leg.  Wheels up at 8:00 am (PDT), Touchdown at 10:22 am (MDT).  Total Time 1:22.  Average Speed 519 nm/1.367 hr = 379.66 kts.  Seems a little fast to me but once up to altitude it cruised at 396 kts.  Found I had to use the drop tank model and even with the extra fuel I was running on fumes on final.

 

Great scenery along the way.  Flew direct until I had to skirt Sleeping Ute.

[JSMR]

Nice! I hope to do the same maybe today if I can. 

I was working out what power settings to use in my P-51D to be reasonably realistic. The checklist with the download says this :

Take-off 40" Hg 3000 RPM Auto Rich
Climb 35" Hg 2600 RPM Auto Rich
Cruise 26"-28" Hg 2300-2400 RPM Auto Rich
 

That's very conservative though. Probably what somebody would use now to preserve the engine. 

 

A real manual I downloaded matched the placard inside the cockpit as well. It has this : 

Take-off 61" Hg 3000 RPM Auto Rich
Max Continuous 46" Hg 2700 RPM Auto Rich
Cruise 34" Hg 2400 RPM Auto Rich

Flying at 20,000ft - 25000ft at cruise power setting should yield a TAS of around 320kts or so. Well away from the average speed of the 1946-1948 winner in his P-51 and off the pace of the Sea Fury!
So I'm guessing with some pretty reasonably fresh engines (plenty in surplus too I imagine) used at the time, a Max Continuous power setting was probably used. So....I'll find out what speeds I get with it...in the race. 

[jgf]

Also consider these planes are usually modeled as the military versions.  When sold off after the war all armament had been removed, and the civilian owners usually removed the remainder of the government equipment (pilot armor, all hardware associated with the guns, etc.);  this typically resulted in 1000lb-3000lb weight savings (depending on aircraft).

 

In researching my "civilian" P-39 I found that removal of the 37mm cannon, two 50cal and four 30cal machine guns, all their mounting brackets, ammo chutes, etc., 260lb of pilot armor, WWII radio equipment, and the military fuel tanks (replaced with fuel bladders, lighter and with about 10% more capacity) shaved just over 1000lbs from the airframe ....which was only 6500lb to start with.  (From an article on restoration of a post war air racer.)

[ViperPilot2]

First Test Flight complete!

Aircraft: F-5E Photo Lightning (Copley P-38J)

Takeoff from KSMO: 0645 PDT

Wheels Stop @ KCEZ: 0950 MDT

Elapsed Time: 2:05

Altitude: 15,500' (FL150)

Power Settings:

 

Climb to Altitude: 35# MP/2500 RPM

Cruise: 35# MP/2300 RPM

 

Fuel Remaining: 41%

 

taoftedal... what Altitude did you fly at? I stayed at 15,500 so I could practice Descents using the 3:1 Rule. It worked pretty good!

 

JSMR... Looking forward to seeing your Result; I might need to go higher! 

 

 

[jgf]

Thought your first shot looked like Copley's P-38, the best for FS2004 that I've seen;  heard there's a nice one in the Wings of Power collection but haven't seen it, and there's an older one (FS2000? 2002?) converted to FS2004 but with no VC or drop tanks.

 

Here's one you wont see often, a P-38 in the livery of mid-thirties USAAF aircraft (colors look faded to me but were taken from paint samples online);  another WIP, have yet to tackle the diagonal red bands on the booms.

 

 

Copley's panel is nice but dated, I wanted a wide screen panel (1920x1080) so created this from a photo at the EAA website-

 

 

(You might get the idea I like the P-38.)

[taoftedal]

15,000 @ max power.  Pretty sure I'd be out the race already waiting for a new engine.  My numbers just seem a little too good to believe.  Interested to see how the Mosquito and P-51D does.  Anyone flying a F4U Corsair?  Those P-38's were/are beautiful birds.  Any other WW2's we should try?

 

I'll try to do some research on the Bendix Trophy race.

[JSMR]

1 hour ago, taoftedal said:

15,000 @ max power.  Pretty sure I'd be out the race already waiting for a new engine.  My numbers just seem a little too good to believe. 

haha hey all good. Just a fun event.

Being a race, I’m guessing they weren’t TOO conservative. 

[ViperPilot2]

2 hours ago, taoftedal said:

15,000 @ max power.  Pretty sure I'd be out the race already waiting for a new engine.  My numbers just seem a little too good to believe.  Interested to see how the Mosquito and P-51D does.  Anyone flying a F4U Corsair?  Those P-38's were/are beautiful birds.  Any other WW2's we should try?

 

I'll try to do some research on the Bendix Trophy race.

 

Many Thanks! I didn't even think of pushing the Throttle to the Stops! I flew "the Numbers" from the Placard on the Copely Panel... that's why I ended up with ½ a tank of Petrol!

 

You are more than welcome to try any 'production' Fighter or Fighter Bomber used in the Conflict. I also cleared the Martin Baker MB.5, even though it never went into Production. Just check with me if there's one you want to try. 

 

The Bendix got kinda Reno-ish towards the end of its run because of all the Mustangs; the 30's were definitely more exciting! 

[ViperPilot2]

30 minutes ago, JSMR said:

haha hey all good. Just a fun event.

Being a race, I’m guessing they weren’t TOO conservative. 

 

The operative word is FUN. You can run any way you want. Fly balls out, or fly by the numbers.

 

Love that Lightning, especially the 'inter War' paint scheme. I would really, really, really like to get a Copy of your 2D Panel!! 

 

By the by... if you folks weren't aware, the Photo Lightning I flew is wearing the skin of French pilot Antoine Saint-Exupery, the author of the classic novel The Little Prince. He was lost off the coast of Corsica in 1944.

[ViperPilot2]

14 hours ago, jgf said:

Also consider these planes are usually modeled as the military versions.  When sold off after the war all armament had been removed, and the civilian owners usually removed the remainder of the government equipment (pilot armor, all hardware associated with the guns, etc.);  this typically resulted in 1000lb-3000lb weight savings (depending on aircraft).

 

In researching my "civilian" P-39 I found that removal of the 37mm cannon, two 50cal and four 30cal machine guns, all their mounting brackets, ammo chutes, etc., 260lb of pilot armor, WWII radio equipment, and the military fuel tanks (replaced with fuel bladders, lighter and with about 10% more capacity) shaved just over 1000lbs from the airframe ....which was only 6500lb to start with.  (From an article on restoration of a post war air racer.)

 

Funny story about an Airacobra; while in Training at Tonopah, NV in '43, Chuck Yeager and his Squadron mates met a local family who would invite them for Sunday supper, waving a white bed sheet as an invitation to come over whenever the Squadron flew over their house. One day the head of the household remarked to Yeager about a tree in their yard that he wanted to chop down. A few days later, Yeager flew past their house in a P-39, circled around and took the top three feet of the tree off... with his wingtip! He was busted and grounded for a few days, but was none the worse for wear after the incident. Yeager remarked in his first book that the Airacobra was one of his favorite airplanes to fly.

[taoftedal]

Great story ... I don't think Yeager was always the most disciplined aviator but was able to walk away from each landing (at least most).  Antoine Saint-Exupery on the other hand was not only another pilot's pilot from what I have read, but one of the best aviation novelists also.  Wind, Sand and Stars and Night Flight are both great reads.

[jgf]

I'll see if I can upload the panel;  gauges are from numerous sources, most are Copley's, flaps and radio compass from "AAF_Gauges.gau" 2001, hydraulic pressure from "ww2usa.cab" 2004, carb air and ILS from "B17.cab" 2004, etc.

 

FWIW, this is the original photo (reduced to save space;  I cursed a blue streak removing that ghost image of the control yoke)

[JSMR]

Just completed flight. Didn't note the exact time of dep/arr as I couldn't find the clock. Discovered its smack bang in the middle of the panel right in my field of vision. lol

From sim time I remember setting, dep was around 8:00am. Arr 10:50 (after finding the clock). 
Stopwatch on my phone was 1:51. 

Cruise alt : 25,000

Power settings :

Clb : 46 / 2700 

Crz : 36 / 2400

 

Departed with 201 gallons. Landed with 83. 
Still have some power in reserve if I want to try and beat the Sea Fury!

[JSMR]

Also I had to use VOR nav. Not sure how everyone else did it. I don’t have a GPS in the plane. And the VOR has no DME. 

NOT AN EXCUSE. Lol. 
 

Trying to find the right height is difficult. Time is wasted climbing but the TAS is higher. In the beast I’m flying, in reality looking at the charts, at Max Continuous, the best TAS is at 30,000ft. 

 

Anyway, fun times. 
 

When do we begin our real race? Do we add the times together for each leg at the end? 
Also will we give the whole route a practise run through so we know where the airports are? Or just go for it when ready?
Maybe a few more might join us? I’m sure some at SOH would gladly join in. 
 

 

[ViperPilot2]

1 hour ago, JSMR said:

Also I had to use VOR nav. Not sure how everyone else did it. I don’t have a GPS in the plane. And the VOR has no DME. 

NOT AN EXCUSE. Lol. 
 

Trying to find the right height is difficult. Time is wasted climbing but the TAS is higher. In the beast I’m flying, in reality looking at the charts, at Max Continuous, the best TAS is at 30,000ft. 

 

Anyway, fun times. 
 

When do we begin our real race? Do we add the times together for each leg at the end? 
Also will we give the whole route a practise run through so we know where the airports are? Or just go for it when ready?
Maybe a few more might join us? I’m sure some at SOH would gladly join in. 
 

 

 

Whatever Nav method works for you. Adding GPS is fine if you don't have it; I use mine as a 'moving Map'.

 

I would say... Fly the Race at your own pace. Add your Times together to get the Final Time. Perhaps a round or few for 'Practice' beforehand to hash out any quirks, then let's see how everyone feels. It's fun seeing what and how everyone's thought processes are.

 

I'll make the Rounds and see if I can drum up some more Participation. 

 

EDIT: Challenge posted at AVSIM and SOH. Let's see what happens... 

[JSMR]

Ok sounds good!

Should be fun. 

[taoftedal]

Second leg is in the books.  Again, wheels up at 8:00am (MDT), Touchdown at 10:17am (CDT).  Total Time 1:19.  Average Speed 453nm/1.317hr = 344kts.  Did a little digging and found that 40 inHg/2,400 rpm is pretty close to the max continuous and as such I think I still have an engine.  At altitude (15,000) it gave me a KIAS of 292kts and GS of 355kts.  No problem with lack of fuel on this leg.  (Also, revised my climb and descent profiles on this leg that I think helped the averages). 

 

Again, great scenery along the route, until I hit eastern Colorado.  (Here's my attempt at a screen shot before leaving KCEZ).  Next stop ... Iowa.

 

 

 

[ViperPilot2]

Second Test Flight complete!

Aircraft: F-5E Photo Lightning (Copley P-38J)

Takeoff from KCEZ: 0710 PDT

Wheels Stop @ KHLC: 0935 CDT

Elapsed Time: 1:34

Altitude: 25,000' (FL250)

Power Settings:

 

Climb to Altitude: 40# MP/2500 RPM

Cruise: 40# MP/2300 RPM

 

Fuel Remaining: 33%

 

Incerased the Power Settings and Altitude; 335 kts. GS. Really kacked the Landing. My TOD was all off this time. I'd like to try this one again.

 

[defaid]

I believe the 1948 race started at 1200 PST so I went with 1200hrs FS9 time and chose weather for 3rd September as it was fine & mostly clear, with an intermittent tailwind.

 

A quick test flight EGCW-EHRD a couple of days previously had shown FL170 with full fine pitch and max throttle to give around the best TAS.

 

The paintkit on which I'd relied turned out to be plain 3 channel bitmaps no layers. I'd have struggled to retain ribs and inspection covers. I tried the FSX version but, while cutting & pasting might have worked, the relevant body parts are slightly different shapes. I gave up.

 

Like a lot of addon aircraft, the JF Mosquito looks great from the outside but has a typically underdesigned cockpit. Since the plane has only an ADF tuner and no GPS, meaning dead reckoning only, I made one modification - adding a chronometer. Could I have used a watch? Certainly, but I intended to pause occasionally for a photo and consequently anticipated increasing the sim rate in order to ensure I got some sleep.

--------------------------------------------

 

KSMO with the modification.

 

Wheels were up at 1155 in a bit of a hurry, wanting to get the un-repainted plane away from other eyes as quickly as possible. I think everyone had been expecting white & red but the paint never turned up.

 

Farewell to the Pacific.

 

The first landmark was the masts on Mount Wilson. It was also the third weather station and (I think) a little past where we topped out at 17 000 feet.

 

Mount Wilson.

 

The radio panel has tuners for Nav 1, Nav 2, ADF 1 & ADF 2 but three of them have no corresponding gauge by which to fly, which leaves centring the V for ADF 1. Now, NDBs were a little far apart so instead I took defaid junior along as nav because she likes playing with maps. She relied on a great circle, corrected for winds given by each weather station en route. Mostly, we kept to the planned line in this flight but where we recognised a landmark I did adjust my track if I thought it was necessary.

 

For some reason, the compass insisted on showing a reciprocal heading.

 

Parked in a puddle. Lake Mohave.

 

We passed over Lake Mohave just north of Bullhead then received Kingman's weather just as the massive scar of the Grand Canyon appeared. In the perfect conditions of minimal haze and an 8 kt tailwind I could feel it tugging at me: one of my first 'just for the hell of it' flights was in FU3, taking Looking Glass Aviation's P-51 up the canyon as close to the ground as I dared. Doing it faster and doing it closer became a personal challenge after a while.

 

The Grand Canyon. KGCN in the green on the far side.

 

Turning another degree to the right on the great circle as we nipped the tip off one bend. Seeing KGCN, challenge's start or finish, off to the right as we clipped off another. Then out over the broad flat for a hundred undulating miles and back to business: winds and times and great circles. Climbing a hundred feet, descending a hundred, hunting for another half knot. Spotting Lake Powell at the same moment as receiving Page's weather.

 

Everything was great until she turned to me with a smirk and said "By the way, you do know that you're one degree off course don't you?" What can you do?

 

Don't have kids.

 

Can't beat a good navigator. A hair's breadth off Shonto, in front of the river under the nose.

 

Seemingly a moment later, as the almost invisible Shonto passed under the starboard wing, it was "Three minutes, skip."

 

Eh? I must have been wool-gathering again. We were just coming up on the fun part: a plain 85 mile grass-combing run straight at the airfield from abeam Kayenta. A tad over three miles high to a tad over 3 inches with the VSI needle bending the stop.

 

You have to admire FS9's indestructible planes: the wings would have come off in FU3.

 

Descent.

 

Suddenly everything got really fast. Scrubby bushes and little bluffs and dry washes like hedgehopping on a scary scale gave way, as the ground rose into the final hill, to full sized trees and finally my eye had something familiar by which to judge.

 

Approaching Black Mountain. Or Ute Mountain. Or Hermano Peak. Or Kneecaps or something like that.

 

If you have trees that need pollarding...

 

Over the last crest.

 

Between the trees and over the crest somewhere between Ute and Black Mountains and, with the target in sight, mowed our way onto the extended centreline where a stall turn dumped the speed and gained just a little height, bleeding off the last with full flaps and indestructible gear for a short final and we were on the ground.

 

It was half past two.

 

 

Down again.

 

Time for a brandy and a cigar. I suppose we could have got there a little earlier but there's always such a temptation to play.

 

Parked and grinning.

 

Stats:

 

Wheels up 1855Z

Touch down 2031Z

Flight time 1 hour 36 minutes

Navigator's estimated time 1 hour 31 minutes

[ViperPilot2]

Very nice Flight, @defaid! Quick question... Leg #? 

 

Just for the Record, staying within Historical boundaries with regards to both Timing and Weather is fine, but not a prerequisite. Also, if there's a Gauge or two you need to add to a Panel, or a GPS pop up to make the Flight easier then by all means go ahead. If you'd like to stay within the limitations of the particular Model you're using then that's fine too.

 

However, I will stipulate that Time Compression will not be Allowed for this Challenge.

 

Most of these airplanes didn't have all of the modern Navaids that are available today, but they really don't affect the Challenge per se if they're included with the Model you've chosen to fly. It still comes down to Pilotage.

 

Keep them coming, everyone! We may have a couple more join us here soon. The More, the Merrier!