Good youtube tutorial, how to fly helicopter?

[ster100]

The basics are important

I have:

Rudder pedals

Alpha flight controlls

Throttles

[PhrogPhlyer]

I personally feel that the best site for helicopter sim flying is Helisimmer. 

 https://www.helisimmer.com/how-to-fly-helicopters

 

[Nels_Anderson]

I am working on learning to fly helicopters too.

 

I've gone through the tutorials at Helisimmer and they certainly are helpful, though it would be great if they could add more specific to MSFS 2020.

 

So far I'm sticking with just the basic Guimbal Cabri G2. There are a number of Youtube videos demonstrating how to fly it. I've found all of those that I've watched useful, though I really wish there was more of a step by step course for beginners.

 

After that, just lots of practice I guess. If you are not aware, MSFS 2020 has two option settings specific to helicopters. It appears they are on by default and they seem to somewhat tame the flight characteristics so that they are a bit easier to fly. I'd be curious to know what the experts think about using them.

[PhrogPhlyer]

31 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

it would be great if they could add more specific to MSFS 2020

Although I like the site, I wish that HeliSimmer would also have some more on FSX.

I'm going to try to solicit forum conversation there for FSX, anything of value I'll be sure to share for our helo drivers here.

[Nels_Anderson]

"FSX Forever"...I get it, a lot of people have a deep attachment and investment in that sim.

 

The thing is, much of the world has moved on to the newer sims, X-Plane 12 and MSFS 2020. My still limited experience with it and using helicopters has been kind of amazing actually. I've recently done some low-level copter flights in the home area and it's amazing that for the first time in a sim I can actually recognize exactly where I am and navigate by just looking out the window.

 

It clearly has its flaws, as along some roads there are too many trees, blocking the view of the road, and on the ground you get lumps and bumps that are not realistic when viewed too closely. But even past attempts like MegaScenery and such never gave me such a feeling of actually being there in the real world.

[PhrogPhlyer]

35 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

I get it, a lot of people have a deep attachment and investment in that sim. The thing is, much of the world has moved on....

Nels, Sorry, but this comment surprised me, and to me this sounds demeaning. Especially since it points directly to an individual tag, not the topic (helo flying). Please understand that I am not in any way disparaging newer sims, nor their users. I also do not look down on anyone who uses any platform to enjoy sim flying. I am merely stating that for me personally, I am quite satisfied with FSX, and continually look for opportunities to make my preferred platform stronger. I feel that at times we fall into the same trap as in real flying, bigger/newer/faster/jets are better than smaller/older/slower/props or helos. I for one support. and comment wherever I hope I may be helpful, to all sim flyers no matter what platform they are using, as long as they are having fun and flying. And I won't apologize for using FSX nor feel like a lesser citizen who's not part of "much of the world.

 

[Nels_Anderson]

My intention was to agree with you, that I totally get why you would want to continue using FSX.

 

But my thinking was, many of the tutorials at Helisimmer are now a few years old and pre-date the release of MSFS 2020 so I was wishing for some updated information to support the newer sims that many people are now using. I recall reading somewhere that the helicopter model in FSX was somewhat simplified (too easy to fly) and that MSFS 2020 may or may not have the same situation, depending on some option settings. Details like this that are sim-specific would be helpful in the tutorials.

[PhrogPhlyer]

2 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

I was wishing for some updated information to support the newer sims

I also agree, but more in light of a review on a specific aircraft or system. This is where I find sim specific write ups most useful (as in your tutorials).

 

The basics of helicopter flying, as with fixed wing, are relatively the same for all sim variants: Push stick forward, houses get bigger, pull stick back, houses get smaller. I read in many of these initial questions an inquiry that is more generic (how best to fly a.. (helo, tailwheel, glider). And for those questions most of the good tutorials  are valid cross-platform.

 

And for whomever told you that FSX helo flying was easy, I would venture to say that a) they never increased realism, and/or b) never flew a helo in real aviation. I have around 2500 hours of real RW time, and hundreds of hours of 2004 and FSX helo time, and still must work hard to hold a very stable hover and do hover taxi patterns (turns around the tail, turns around the nose, fly a square fwd/back/left side/rt side). And a brief comment concerning throttle vs collective, either will work just fine as long as you apply/reduce power SLOWLY. A collective gives you smoother control in that with the longer "arm" a large movement equals a small movement at the base. 

 

Nels, I know we are on the same flight plan here in our support of all flight simmers. Keep having fun.

[Nels_Anderson]

At Helisimmer, in their discussion of what sims are best for helicopters, they say: "There are a lot of available helicopters for FSX but, due to the limitations in the simulator, the flight characteristics are not that good."

 

https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/best-helicopter-simulator

 

While this isn't the exact quote I was looking for, I had previously read something similar about the FSX helicopter flight model. I have zero personal experience with it, just relaying what I read.

 

So you seem like the guy who could answer my beginner questions...

 

Right now I'm flying MSFS 2020 with the two helicopter assist settings turned on (yes, I know that's cheating). With the flight model somewhat tamed by doing this I'm getting to the point where I can more or less hover in place and can actually take some short flights. So, main thing, I'm having some fun with helicopters.

 

So question 1: Your comment about how even with years of experience you find hovering a challenge raises the question: what level of hovering skill is "good enough"? I.e., what would I have to demonstrate to the examiner to pass the PPL helicopter check ride?

 

Now question 2: I've actually been taking flights and not crashing for the most part, but the one part I cannot figure out even after reading the tutorials and watching videos is the approach. I understand you cannot just "stop and drop" so I've been flying it sort of like I would in a light plane. Which works up to a point, but I cannot get the technique right to slow down and transition to a low altitude hover at the point I want. I tend to come in feeling like I'm going too fast, and then end up stopping too soon. The tutorials I've found don't cover this topic in enough detail, any suggestions?

[PhrogPhlyer]

2 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

what level of hovering skill is "good enough"? I.e., what would I have to demonstrate to the examiner to pass the PPL helicopter check ride?

The specifics of what are required by the FAA with hovering can be found in chapter IV of the PTS. 

 https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/training_testing/testing/test_standards/FAA-S-8081-15a.pdf

These are:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to a vertical takeoff to a hover and landing from a hover.

2. Ascends to and maintains recommended hovering altitude, and descends from recommended hovering altitude in headwind, crosswind, and tailwind conditions.

3. Maintains RPM within normal limits.

4. Establishes recommended hovering altitude, ±1/2 of that altitude within 10 feet of the surface; if above 10 feet, ±5 feet.

. Avoids conditions that might lead to loss of tail rotor/antitorque effectiveness.

6. Maintains position within 4 feet of a designated point, with no aft movement.

7. Descends vertically to within 4 feet of the designated touchdown point.

8. Maintains specified heading, ±10°.

 

2 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

but I cannot get the technique right to slow down and transition to a low altitude hover at the point I want. I tend to come in feeling like I'm going too fast, and then end up stopping too soon.

While hovering, lift is generated by downward airflow created by the main rotor.

I normal forward flight, lift is generated (as with a fixed wing aircraft) by airflow over the wing (in this case a rotating disk).

Hover to forward flight, and forward flight to hover, both go through translational lift.

Due to the aerodynamic complexities while translating between these two differing lift states, this is not modeled well in any version of PC based flight sims.

Keeping the change from accelerating too quickly (going to forward flight) or decelerating too quickly (going to a hover) takes a lot of practice and finesse. This is definitely easier in an actual aircraft. As for stopping too soon, not a bad thing actually, since can hover taxi forward to then land.

You said it yourself... Practice.

 

These are the elements of hover flight to practice:

• vertical takeoff to a hover
• landing from a hover
• hovering forward, sideways, and backwards
• hovering around a pattern on the ground, in various orientations
• normal and crosswind takeoffs from a hover
• normal and crosswind approaches to a hover

Good luck and have fun.

[Nels_Anderson]

Great, thanks for the detailed reply on hovering requirements. I have not seen anything like that in any of the sim articles I've read; probably should have just gone straight to the FAA info

 

So that being the case, I'm actually pretty close to meeting the hovering requirements, though still with the cheat of using the MSFS 2020 assisted settings. My thinking is once I get truly comfortable flying this way I'll turn the assist off and continue improving my technique under more realistic conditions. I'll keep practicing.

 

The transitional lift is interesting. I did read about that before but it takes a while to understand. So that explains why going from a hover to taking off does not require an increase of power, which is interesting compared to how a fixed wing plane works.

 

I'm still unclear about the descent to landing though. Tell me where I'm wrong: to descend you need to cut power. But that does not necessarily make you slow down; to do that you seem to need to bring the nose up. But then at some point you get close to the ground and slow (ideally at a point you're aiming for, though I've not yet managed to do that) and all of a sudden you need LOTS more power in order to now hover instead of continuing into the ground. What's the technique for doing that?

 

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

1 hour ago, Nels_Anderson said:

all of a sudden you need LOTS more power in order to now hover

A couple things are happening aerodynamically as you get closer to the ground. You are entering ground effect while airflow is still over the wing, and at the same time you are translating back into the hover with airflow being forced downward through rotor. As you enter ground effect you need less power and almost simultaneously you are in the hover and need more power. The key here is to slowly add power as you settle into the hover. Unfortunately many sim helos need much more power to hover than the actual aircraft would. So you will have to experiment and see what works best for where/when to add power. As with any aircraft, smooth application of power and/or flight controls will win the day. To practice specifically the T/O and Landing translations, I air taxi around the taxiways of an airport, using the taxi lines as reference. Accelerate and climb a little, then decelerate and work on the translation back to the hover and then landing.  "To fly is heavenly, to hover divine."

[PhrogPhlyer]

This is the link to the FAA Helicopter Flying Handbook.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/helicopter_flying_handbook.pdf

The FAA really has some great resource material out there, and you might as well take advantage of things your tax dollars paid for.

[Nels_Anderson]

OK thanks again for your help. "Experimenting" is not very real world! But I guess we have to make do with things that are less than 100% realistic. I just did a couple of short flights and my approaches are getting better. Your idea of doing "patterns" around the airport using taxiways sounds like something to try. That will allow for a lot more landings in a short time than doing traffic patterns like you would in a fixed-wing plane.

 

Some day I want to be able to fly out and land on things like this:

 

 

I did try but it appears not to be solid...not to mention there is an antenna right in the middle of the "H", and a man waving!

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

1 hour ago, Nels_Anderson said:

middle of the "H", and a man waving

I'd venture to say that he takes a dive if you come in fast!

Here's something we did with the '46 (pic is a '47) when the whole aircraft wouldn't fit at landing site, a pinnacle landing.

[Nels_Anderson]

That's very cool. I've seen a similar picture before somewhere...

 

Must make things interesting, with only half the copter in ground effect and the other half in the air but on the face of a cliff where the air could bounce off, perhaps horizontally.

 

MSFS 2020 has a setting where you can view the airflow; this would be an interesting place to try that!

[Spac3Rat]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:28 PM, Nels_Anderson said:

I've gone through the tutorials at Helisimmer and they certainly are helpful, though it would be great if they could add more specific to MSFS 2020.

 

Hi Nels! Our tutorials are generic and can be used with any sim. The only specific things I can think of is how to look for settings and assignments but, honestly, it's all pretty straightforward on most sims.

 

Helicopters work pretty much the same on all the flight simulaton softwares we have available out there. With the exception of FSX and P3D, which need different assignments since there's no actual collective and helicopter throttle axis, it's all pretty similar or even the same.

[Nels_Anderson]

Hi Sergio... You're the expert, I can only report my experience as the student. I've ready your tutorials, most of them more than once. I've watched a bunch of videos as well. The videos pretty much answered my questions specific to MSFS 2020, though one of them introduced a new point of confusion in that it has specific joystick settings for helicopters. I've never used this and yet my joystick seems to control things just fine. The video didn't really answer the question as to whether using the helicopter-specific mappings made things actually work better. Expert advice on things like this would be helpful.

 

I have to say also as a student that something--and  I'm not sure what--is missing from the tutorials and videos. I've been at this for about five weeks now, and fly a little almost every day. The first couple of days I could see improvement but for weeks now I practice and practice and don't see any improvement, just some days go better than others. There's still something I'm missing that has been left out of the online tutorials I've read and watched.

[ViperPilot2]

Flying helos in FS9, and using the Gauge from Rob Barengedt (?) which helps with Hovering and maneuvering below 20 kts. Above 20 kts. forward speed, and the Gauge kicks off, allowing you to (try) and fly straight. Of course, 'straight' is relative...

 

I've found that if I simply start decreasing the collective and descending early, I can get much closer to my landing point without being too high and too fast. 

 

Helicopters are tricky to fly in the Sim, and yes, some days are better than others. But I find the challenge very refreshing and enjoyable. 

[PhrogPhlyer]

23 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

There's still something I'm missing that has been left out of the online tutorials I've read and watched.

Nels, A very important aspect of helo flying is something that none of the sims can replicate appropriately, and that is the visual cues one gets when actually hovering or air taxiing a helo. Looking out at 30-45 deg, one is able see these very small movements, and with PC based sim this is nearly impossible. And  the sims do not replicate well translating from hover to forward flight, and the reverse. Landing on a runway, has a certain angle/view that is relatively the same no matter what type aircraft you fly, with consistent visual cues. But landing on a point (helo pad, oil rig, rock outcropping, clearing in trees) requires those more subtle visual cues for distance and velocity. You and I have discussed here the issues with consistently landing at your intended spot. I spend a lot of time in a 3' hover, seeing how long I can stay within inches of my spot, or slow air taxiing around the field. Recently, I installed (for FSX) oil platforms in Australia. I fly from rig to rig, even landing on ships and small sand bars in the area. Great for working on those subtle visual cues, since the water is of no help. As in real helo flying, practice is your best friend.

[Nels_Anderson]

Maybe I should go learn to fly real helicopters, since that would be easier than the sim

 

I'm enjoying the challenge too, but also want to see some progress from my practice and try and ensure I'm not learning bad habits.

 

I'm using just a single monitor so I know what you're saying about the view, as this affects fixed wing flying too, but I've been doing that a lot longer so am more used to it.

 

I've been trying to land on challenging spots, like the other day I found a landing pad on top of a lighthouse. I usually manage to do it, but it takes a while and it's not very smooth!

 

I also just installed FlightControlReplay (https://flightcontroltools.com/) which allows me to record and review my flights. I think this will be interesting as I can review a flight from any angle and see where things went wrong.

 

So, my question for the day involves flight controls. I'm currently using a pretty basic Logitech joystick that has all the necessary controls, including the twist grip for the anti-torque pedals. In videos I see people using similar setups so I guess this is "good enough" but I wonder if it really is? I find myself often overcontrolling and getting into oscillations, even though my actual hand movements are really tiny. Would a better controller help, or just more practice?

[PhrogPhlyer]

7 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

Maybe I should go learn to fly real helicopters, since that would be easier than the sim

Never a bad idea! lol Flying is heavenly, to hover... divine.

7 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

I find myself often overcontrolling and getting into oscillations, even though my actual hand movements are really tiny.

I mostly use a MS Sidewinder II, and the twist grip works fine for torque control. It isn't just the amount of input, it's how "slowly" you can make them. I make small  slow movements an any axis, and anticipate (lead the input) when I'll need to counter that input. Also, slow and small inputs. This is very similar to actual helo flying in hover and air-taxi.

 

10 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

or just more practice?

One should never underestimate the benefits of practice. Try not to get frustrated or discouraged. It will all come together in time.

[PhrogPhlyer]

[Spac3Rat]

Well, MSFS has self-explanatory axis assignments. They are all called "helicopter <insert the control here>". If you look at the controls tutorial we have, you'll have all the names there: cyclic, collective, anti-torque (which is explained as the yaw). I honestly thought people would have the need for someone to tell them that, since they managed to find out how to do it with fixed wing airplanes but I guess it could be helpful. That's good feedback. I'll start working on such a tutorial. Everything else we do have there does work with MSFS too so I think only assignments are in order here.

 

3 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

So, my question for the day involves flight controls. I'm currently using a pretty basic Logitech joystick that has all the necessary controls, including the twist grip for the anti-torque pedals. In videos I see people using similar setups so I guess this is "good enough" but I wonder if it really is? I find myself often overcontrolling and getting into oscillations, even though my actual hand movements are really tiny. Would a better controller help, or just more practice?

 

I started with a Microsoft Sidewinder joystick. It's "good enough" but it's obviously better if you get better or "more appropriate" hardware. Having pedals instead of twist grip and having a joystick without a spring is a huge plus and you will have a lot more control of helicopters. But you still need practice, so the answer to the question is "yes". Both hardware and practice will make a difference. If you can practice with better hardware, that will help you a lot.

 

Speaking of which, that sense of no progress, that frustration, even, that you may be feeling is perfectly normal. I had it for months and months until it sudenly just "clicked". I saw this expression being said a lot: "someday it will 'click'" but I didn't really get it until it happened.

 

There are a couple of videos that may also help you. They are a bit long but I throw in a few good tips. I am expanding a bit, mainly on the second, at FlightSimExpo this year as well.

 

Let me know if you need suggestions on hardware. There are quite nice options out there nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

3 hours ago, Spac3Rat said:

joystick without a spring is a huge plus

This may be a bit of a matter of preference. I prefer the slight pushback of the a spring (not force feedback) since this give me some "feel" of the forces. This is very realistic to some feel of the cyclic when in an actual helo.