Commercial Airline vs General Aviation

[JSMR]

Anyway. Back on track….and to answer the OP, no, some of us don’t hit a/p and go to bed.

 

I’ve just departed LHR bound for LAX in my Pan Am 747-100 with JT9D-3A motors. MTOW 710,000 lbs representing their first 747’s.

Improved FDE by me (RFP) for this engine model. Fuel burn more accurate and also performance (or lack of with these engines).

 

58 mins in, FL280 (uughh) at 0.842.

Flying using INS. 3 units. Two with the same flight plan loaded. One with the end destination with a great circle distance measuring distance and time to arrival for a rough fuel check.

 

Captain INS using the route showing distance and time to next waypoint.

Copilot INS showing current LAT/Long so I can confirm where I am.

Centr console INS unit showing current winds.

 

I have constant cross checking of all to show accuracy. Most waypoints I’ll cross check that the fuel burn is accurate to the flight plan. Along with the eta to each waypoint.

 

Cross checking fuel tanks, fuel onboard and current gross weight because I’ll need to step climb eventually to arrive with enough fuel.

And I have the winds aloft chart to check if it’s worth climbing, or that the winds are accurate.

 

 

So no sleeping!

 

See you in 10 hours. :p

[Rnglgdj]

Haha OK

[JSMR]

Haha OK

 

10:40 hrs flight time!

 

Lots of calculations and watching weight, winds, INS waypoints planning step climbs etc. Fuel was a little tight (see other thread as to possible cause).

 

Although I enjoy my Posky 777-200ER (also updated FDE by me) in the same way, but just less to do.

[jgf]

Well, I enjoy all of it - GA, heavy iron, civil, military, vintage, modern. Short hops in the Vin Fiz one day, across the Pacific in a C5 the next, follow a river in a helicopter or cross country in a WWI Staaken.

 

But I prefer GA, have probably flown more GA than all else combined (my two payware 747s became hanger queens, probably not 30 hrs flight time between them). There is much more variety in GA aircraft than in airliners; you have near complete freedom to fly anything anywhere in GA, with commercial flights you go "by the book" (you don't have to, of course, but that aspect is, I believe, the appeal). GA flights are mostly hands on, commercial flights are get to altitude, turn on the autopilot, and watch it take you waypoint to waypoint til time to land.

 

Years ago someone commented that MSFS was less about stick-and-rudder flying than about navigating, I believe there is truth in that, though somewhat negated by FS' lack of decently interactive ATC, lack of enforcing no-fly zones, etc. It is infuriating to get to the end of a 3000 mile flight in a B-52, your initial is lined up almost perfectly on an 11k ft runway with full ILS, request landing clearance, and ATC sends you to a 5k ft runway 120deg from your path with no ILS; request a different runway and they just give you the same one. Most GA flights require little ATC (usually that onerous situation of being gear down, flaps down, 30ft above the runway and they tell you to go around).

[jgf]

... Much of the instability and "update chasing" .... spend far more time troubleshooting than actually flying ....

 

That has caused me to walk away from FS several times. Especially the chasing your tail in a never ending attempt to get scenery to work - airports on plateaus or in pits, half submerged cities, bridges or dams miles from the nearest river, railroad tracks crossing runways, texture anomalies, weird lights, taxi assist lines meandering all over the place ...gad, every time I fly I see something that needs correcting. At least most of that can be fixed if you have the time, patience, and knowledge (at my age I have little of either).

 

But then come the aircraft issues - the tail that disappears when you "check six"; the propeller that disappears behind the fuselage for half its revolution, the switch that causes a CTD; the plane that sinks halfway into the runway and crashes when landing; a plane with one invisible landing gear; strobe lights illuminating the cockpit...

[MAD1]

Wow JSMR, I couldn't do that many hours in a single stint. Congrats. Yes jgf, once I started to play with commercial flights in FS2002 and reading the FS2000 hardcopy manual, it dawned on me (perhaps years before that) that the glamour of being a commercial pilot, I mean a tubeliner, seems to be quite boring, e.g. flying week after week in a single shift Sydney-Melbourne, Melbourne-Brisbane, Brisbane-Sydney. Boring! But the uniform, respect, and 'pulling the chicks' was probably the appeal! Yep, I know, the interest for the flight crew is flying a good flight 'per the book', dealing with weather, ATC etc. But, to do that for 30 years? Suppose I shoudl cop the same criticism for being a computer jockey (Geographic Information Systems, GIS, maps etc.) is the same. But I like it! Hence, GA is more realistic and total freedom, plus I can imagine that I could possibly do it. (I dreamed of being a commercial pilot when in high school, but never went down that path, considered joining the air force (RAAF) or trying to, but the thought of getting up early, all that discipline and saluting, didn't appeal to my lazy self!!! Ha ha.

 

Re the sims, I think they're all amazing, old or new. Trying to get all that realism into a computer program ain't simple or easy. The MS Flight Simulator developers (all versions) did a truly amazing job 20+ years ago. They need to be recognised and celebrated. As others in this thread have said: whatever 'floats your boat' or more appropriately 'flies your plane', just enjoy the damn hobby, if fiddling with add-ons and gadgets, tweaking configs etc. is your thing, fine, if simply enjoying going for a fly is your thing, fine. Simply enjoy. I think one of the greatest enjoyments is engaging with the fraternity of fellow nutters, as in this FlightSim community. I have mates to 'chew the fat' with.

Edited December 23, 2022 by MAD1

[JSMR]

Wow JSMR, I couldn't do that many hours in a single stint. Congrats.

 

I 'work' from home.

No kids ( although if I did I'd sell them to a Siberian Labour camp. They're paying good money at the moment for hard working kids for the salt mines. Kids love it...honestly).

I do get a little time here and there during the flight (even if using the RFP with INS) to do some work, dishes, cleaning up, making my wife G&T's (that's the important part).

 

Something rewarding about the completing the journey. Arriving close to the scheduled time, with the flight plan fuel etc.

 

I just completed a 'shorter' flight in my updated Posky 777-200ER. Less to do as the FMC (only have GPS on this one) does the flight for me. But montering fuel, step climbs, winds that dont always match accurately, keeps me a little busy as well.

 

I enjoy it, but slightly less than using the INS. But I can see why many choose online with VATSIM etc as that add's another element. I haven't done that for awhile and I'm thinking of that again. The level of realism does go up a notch.

 

But I also enjoy my B200 King Air and I use that a LOT. Not quite GA but close.

[lnuss]

But I also enjoy my B200 King Air and I use that a LOT. Not quite GA but close.

Actually, it is GA. There are three general classifications: Military, airline or general aviation, and bizjets are general aviation, just on the most expensive and complex end of the spectrum.

[JSMR]

Actually, it is GA. There are three general classifications: Military, airline or general aviation, and bizjets are general aviation, just on the most expensive and complex end of the spectrum.

 

Yes you are right. My mistake.

[jgf]

...and bizjets are general aviation, just on the most expensive and complex end of the spectrum.

 

I consider them a hybrid, technically GA but flown more like commercial; and typically flown by professional pilots rather than the private pilots associated with most GA aircraft.

 

And for me more fun than the "sitting on the front porch and flying the house" aspect of a 747 or C5. My old EagleSoft Citation X definitely did not become a hanger queen.

[lnuss]

I consider them a hybrid, technically GA but flown more like commercial; and typically flown by professional pilots rather than the private pilots associated with most GA aircraft.

 

For your own use, categorize as you wish, but it's important for others (not just you) to understand that although bizjets are often flown to almost airline standards (in a few cases even more so), and mostly (not entirely) flown by pros, when dealing with the world at large they are GA -- there are only the three categories.

 

The only reason I posted this was to hopefully avoid someone coming to this thread and getting confused by the (possibly more accurate, in terms of equipment and training) use of some other term. But the categorization is primarily to say that it is Part 91 (private operations), or sometimes Part 135 (commercial operations such as charter), rather than Part 121 (air carrier) of the FARs or military regs that controls their operations. It has nothing to do with equipment. Even a 747 that is not operating as an airline operation or as a military operation is still controlled by FAR Part 91, therefore is general aviation. Under certain conditions a Beech Bonanza (for example) could be under Part 121 (scheduled air carrier), but that would be rare, indeed.

 

So it's the regulations, not the equipment...

[MAD1]

Thanks JSMR for the info, very informative! As you know, I live close to you, just down the road in Lismore NSW. Many Coolangatta based GA training flights use Lismore for training, circuits with touch-and-go, numerous B200 class twins do it. I track them via Flight Aware. Yes, can appreciate the satisfaction of doing a successful sim flight 'for real' i.e. real time, if a flight is n hours, then doing it in n hours, and staying in the cockpit, or, if on autopilot, leaving the cockpit for whatever reason then returning close to your next action point. But what if ATC gives you an instruction whilst away? I 'lurked' (my Cessna parked on the grass at one of the airports that a multi-player flight was using) a few times on VATSIM some years ago to self-train, wanted to join the multi-player crowd, but my setup wasn't able to. Would like to get to it someday in the next year or three, would need a new PC and better sim, e.g. I understand minimum is FS9. Also, yes it's very important to keep wifey happy - 'happy wife happy life'. Edited December 24, 2022 by MAD1

[Cas141]

I do both. I like to fly the Maltby Comets, Tridents, and 1-11. The VCs are brilliant. With the mouse clicks all switches to fly can be simulated. The different autopilots make it very interesting and are I say, lifelike?

They are the best VCs of any payware or freeware planes I have seen.

I also fly G.A. now, since I learned the intricacies of the “Glass cockpit”. I fly the Beechcraft and Mooney Bravo versions, plus the Dassault Falcon.

GPS navigation via the Garmin is great.nIt simulates reality well, I believe and all airfields and landing strips are” findable”.

The landing at airports are brilliantly simulated and using the Garmin has given me a fresh enthusiasm.

This is all on old FSX . Loving it.

[JSMR]

I do both. I like to fly the Maltby Comets, Tridents, and 1-11. The VCs are brilliant. With the mouse clicks all switches to fly can be simulated. The different autopilots make it very interesting and are I say, lifelike?

They are the best VCs of any payware or freeware planes I have seen.

 

Agree! I love flying those, although I haven’t had enough time on the Comet as of yet to be proficient. The BAC 1-11 is a fun little jet to fly. Except when taking off heavy and on a hot day. :p

The Trident - a Mach 0.86-0.88 rocket! If you’re not paying the fuel bills…:D

 

 

Thanks JSMR for the info, very informative! As you know, I live close to you, just down the road in Lismore NSW.

 

Had an Aunty live in Lismore back in the day. So we often passed through on the way to Brissy.

 

I fly offline so the whole ATC thingy doesn’t matter if I’m not there. Online it can be a problem I’m sure.

I want give VATSIM another whirl. Setting up all the programs / clients etc seems painful. I like things simple!