Using a partition on HDD for FSX

[longbreak754]

Hi Barry,

 

Whilst il88pp makes a valid point regarding backups etc there are other factors to be considered. The drive can accommodate both the OS and FSX based on common default install figures - the OS (usually uses a minimum of between 16-20Gb of space on a default install) and FSX (17Gb or so default install). In this case, based on the size and the factors I outline below, I would just use the SSD for the OS and any non FSX stuff like an AV suite.

 

If you do decide to put FSX on the SSD you will need to carefully control addons. Most addon Simobjects and Scenery can be located outside of the main FSX install and on a different drive but there will be some, especially payware, that will write files to the C drive or that can only be installed to a location within the main FSX folder structure. When you install simobjects outside of FSX you will also need to make changes to the FSX.cfg to enable it to find where you have placed the Simobjects and you will also have to make changes to the appropriate panel.cfg file for any simobject that uses a default FSX panel. With scenery its a lot easier - simply point FSX to its location when activating it. If you want more specific info on what this entails I will be more than happy to provide it.

 

First and foremost, due to the way drives work you will not get a full 125Gb of useable space. This is partly due to the way in which drive are manufactured and the differences in measurement of space used by the drive and the OS - see this webpage for more info (as it explains it a lot better than I could) - http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/172191en?language=en_US.

 

Another factor is that the OS will reserve some of the space for recovery purposes and other tasks and this will also be unavailable for use by other programs. Also, as previously indicated above, every time you add a new piece of software some files from that product will be placed on the C:\ drive by default thus increasing the amount of space used.

 

Other factors that will affect how much space is available is the Virtual Memory (as known as Page Fiile) settings. This is 'controlled' by the OS and a straight out of the box install will see it set to the C:\ drive and, usually set to use what it needs so this figure can fluctuate during use. The location and amount of space allocated can be changed if you wish - google Changing Virtual Memory for more info and how to do it.

 

I also presume that you will want to install other products like an AV suite for example - note here that out of the box the W7 OS does not have the default MS AV package (which is called Defender), that comes with and is installed by default, in W8/W10, You can, if you wish, install Windows Security Essentials, which basically does the same as Defender, free and available on the MS website. Note that the default location for this package to install to is the C:\ drive and even if you point to another drive, the vast majority of files it installs go on the C:\ drive by default as they go into default Window locations.

 

A few tips on using an SSD.......

 

Never defrag - not required as previously mentioned in earlier posts.

 

Turn off Windows Indexing - This is a built-in utility designed to speed up searches of the drive initiated by the User. As the Indexer program works it constantly read/writes files. This can impact on the life/performance of the drive. The impact of turning it off is minimal - a search may take slightly longer to return results but the time is usually minimal. There are a number of ways to do this but the easiest is to right click on the drive icon and select properties. On the General tab is a tick box located right at the very bottom with a lengthy statement about indexing - simply untick the box, accept the warning message (if displayed), click OK and close the properties window down. Indexing should stop immediately but if not it will do so at next bootup.

 

Ensure that the drive is recognised correctly by the OS and that TRIM is enabled. This should happen automatically but google Enabling Trim to get instructions on how to check that it is enabled

 

Never completely fill the available free space - the way in which SSDs work (and to maintain peak performance) requires some free space to be available so that it can carryout read/write tasks when new stuff is added to them.

[benibaz]

Hi Barry,

 

Whilst il88pp makes a valid point regarding backups etc there are other factors to be considered. The drive can accommodate both the OS and FSX based on common default install figures - the OS (usually uses a minimum of between 16-20Gb of space on a default install) and FSX (17Gb or so default install). In this case, based on the size and the factors I outline below, I would just use the SSD for the OS and any non FSX stuff like an AV suite.

 

If you do decide to put FSX on the SSD you will need to carefully control addons. Most addon Simobjects and Scenery can be located outside of the main FSX install and on a different drive but there will be some, especially payware, that will write files to the C drive or that can only be installed to a location within the main FSX folder structure. When you install simobjects outside of FSX you will also need to make changes to the FSX.cfg to enable it to find where you have placed the Simobjects and you will also have to make changes to the appropriate panel.cfg file for any simobject that uses a default FSX panel. With scenery its a lot easier - simply point FSX to its location when activating it. If you want more specific info on what this entails I will be more than happy to provide it.

 

First and foremost, due to the way drives work you will not get a full 125Gb of useable space. This is partly due to the way in which drive are manufactured and the differences in measurement of space used by the drive and the OS - see this webpage for more info (as it explains it a lot better than I could) - http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/172191en?language=en_US.

 

Another factor is that the OS will reserve some of the space for recovery purposes and other tasks and this will also be unavailable for use by other programs. Also, as previously indicated above, every time you add a new piece of software some files from that product will be placed on the C:\ drive by default thus increasing the amount of space used.

 

Other factors that will affect how much space is available is the Virtual Memory (as known as Page Fiile) settings. This is 'controlled' by the OS and a straight out of the box install will see it set to the C:\ drive and, usually set to use what it needs so this figure can fluctuate during use. The location and amount of space allocated can be changed if you wish - google Changing Virtual Memory for more info and how to do it.

 

I also presume that you will want to install other products like an AV suite for example - note here that out of the box the W7 OS does not have the default MS AV package (which is called Defender), that comes with and is installed by default, in W8/W10, You can, if you wish, install Windows Security Essentials, which basically does the same as Defender, free and available on the MS website. Note that the default location for this package to install to is the C:\ drive and even if you point to another drive, the vast majority of files it installs go on the C:\ drive by default as they go into default Window locations.

 

A few tips on using an SSD.......

 

Never defrag - not required as previously mentioned in earlier posts.

 

Turn off Windows Indexing - This is a built-in utility designed to speed up searches of the drive initiated by the User. As the Indexer program works it constantly read/writes files. This can impact on the life/performance of the drive. The impact of turning it off is minimal - a search may take slightly longer to return results but the time is usually minimal. There are a number of ways to do this but the easiest is to right click on the drive icon and select properties. On the General tab is a tick box located right at the very bottom with a lengthy statement about indexing - simply untick the box, accept the warning message (if displayed), click OK and close the properties window down. Indexing should stop immediately but if not it will do so at next bootup.

 

Ensure that the drive is recognised correctly by the OS and that TRIM is enabled. This should happen automatically but google Enabling Trim to get instructions on how to check that it is enabled

 

Never completely fill the available free space - the way in which SSDs work (and to maintain peak performance) requires some free space to be available so that it can carryout read/write tasks when new stuff is added to them.

 

Thank you Brian for your help,when the computer comes back from the technician,I will find out which is C: and which is D:,if the SSD is not large enough to place both the OS and FSX on,I will ask him to change it for one of a greater capacity(ah!more bloody expense)Why can´t I just put the OS on the SSD and everything else including FSX on the HDD.Barry

[il88pp]

Most likely the ssd will be C and Windows

D will be the HDD. Can be D and E too.

 

125 gb means 110 gb available in Windows.

You need to leave at least 20 free as well. That means you can use 90 gb.

 

Why no C windows and FSX on D?

Backups.

Payware addons install a registry entry, that will be on C.

But the fsx and addon files are on D.

C is small (125) (or 256 as I suggest)

D is big (maybe 3000Gb)

D is also slow.

 

Making a system Image of the whole C drive takes 20 minutes.

Making a System Image of D (3000 and slow) will take 8 hours or more.

 

With Windows, all programs, and fsx on C.

If there's a problem with anything you simply restore the system Image from a week ago. At tat time all programs worked fine. So restoring the System Image of the SSD fixes it all.

Even fixes a Virus attack you can't get rid of.

 

If FSX is on D things change.

Restoring only a system Image of C may not be enough. Let's say you installed a payware FSX Addon two days ago.

Files in D -- Registry Entry pointing to those files is on C.

Now if you restore the system image of C from a week ago....

The files stay in place on D

But a week ago the Registry entry wasn't there yet. SO if you restore the Image of C, the Windos Registry doesn't match up to the Files.

If you select the addon (files still installed) you will see it's not registred.

 

One week, only one addon involved. Seems like something you can fix. But isn't.

Now imagine you have only a System Image from a month ago. Just imagine how much has changed since then.

 

That happens if you install an unrelated program on D as well. Has a registry entry too.

 

Only way to fix that would be to restore a System Image of C, AND a System Image of D.

But... restoring a System Image of D, will also restore the folders with the personal files (pictures, documents, all your bank statements). To a time a week ago. (Or even a month ago if that is when the Image was made.)

If you have files now that weren't there a month ago when the Image was made, they will be "poof" gone after restoring.

 

 

Really, put all programs on C:

In cluding FSX.

And put Put all your personal files on D.

 

If there's a problem with the programs you an't fix. Restore the System Image of C from a week ago. 20 mins later it's all good to go again.

 

Just get a drive that's big enough.

 

My SSD is 256 gb, C:

and HDD is 1000gb, D: and E:

C: contains 120 gb of data

FSX folder is now 46gb, only freeware addons.

Lots of other programs installed.

 

Just get enough space to work with. 125 is nothing.

Get at least 256gb, maybe even 500

Something like this for example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171741

 

-----

System Images are stored on external harddisks. They are about 65% of the size of the data on the driive the Image is made of.

Lets say you have a SSD of 256 GB, with 100 gb on it.

The Image will be about 70GB. Easy to store on an external HDD.

 

But an Image of a 3000Gb that has 2000gb used will be 1300Gb in size.

Try storing that on an external HDD. Try storing two. One from a week ago, and one from two weeks ago as well to be safe.

That's 2x1300gb-->2.6Tb

Not very practical.

(And external HDD's are expensive too.)

 

Remember, restoring a System Image means restoring the whole disk to how it was a week ago, or two weeks ago, or whenever the Image was made.

That means after restoring, on the Disk you will have the files that were there when the image was made. And nothing else.

 

Loook into such stuff yourself. You have to know what you're doing with this.

[il88pp]

Let's say today you make a system Image of C.

tomorrow you install fsx on D -- registry entry of fsx will be on C, and so are fsx.cfg file, scenery.cfg file, etc.

You start installing your freeware addons. Their files go into D. And playing with fsx.

For a month you make no more System Images. You're having too much fun and forget.

Then you install a VIrus. And can't get rid of it.

You restore the System Image of C.

 

So now you have:

On D - FSX folder, with lots of Addons.

On C- Nothing. No registry entry. No scenery.cfg or fsx.cfg file.

 

Only way to fix is to reinstall fsx.

 

--------------------

Better way:

Put all programs on C. FSX as well.

Put all personal files on D. Do NOT put them in the folders C:\My Documents or C:\My Pictures. Those folders are the default locations, but they are on C.

 

Then make a System Image of C:

While playing with FSX, make a System Image of C: every week.

 

Now if you have that Virus you simply restore the Image of C from a week ago.

D is not affected by that. All personal files are still there.

You get the C drive back as it was a week ago.

Back then some addons were not installed. But those are easy to reinstall.

Back then some programs weren't installed. Also easy to reinstall.

And back then the Virus was not installed. Do not install that again.:)

 

-------------------------

 

By the way, you need a backup of your personal files as well. But it's probably best not to use a System Image for that.

Just copy them to an External Harddisk. All of it.

That way if your HDD dies, or the PC is not usable, you can simply pick up you external HDD, and walk with the files to a friends computer and access the files there. You can access files one by one from such a backup.

 

You can't access the System Image. You can't pick out one file and restore it.

You can only restore the whole Image and access a files after.

So for personal files simply copying to an External HD is best.

 

------------------------------

[napamule2]

Boy iL, that's $100 worth (or more) of GOOD advice (and free). And doing it right costs money. No other way.

 

I don't have a SSD. But I have 2 x 1 Tb External HDrives (Western Digital 'My Book') and a 3 Tb 'Toshiba' HDrive for backing up my inportan documents (C drive) and FSX (D drive) files. What I LOVE is that I connect the exteran HD (USB) and can browse with explorer and grab individual files I want/need - anytime. I just format the external HD and then 'COPY' to backup the folders / files I want to keep safe (mostly aircraft.cfg and air files but some pics, graphics, music, receipts, bank docs, etc). OK.. downloads too (zip).

 

I have never used the 'Image' method. Too restrictive as it's 'All or Nothing'. Anyway, I can re-install Windows anytime I want (or have to due to a virus) because I have the DVD's. The D drive remains untouched and accessible - until it FAILS. So the backup is in case of a VIRUS or HDisk FAILURE. Keeping external HDrives (which are USB as I said) is just plain ole cheap insurance that is PRICELESS. I don't care if the HD fails and any virus will not do any (permanent) damage. (It's called 'Peace Of Mind').

 

SO... I have a $1800 PC and then spend $300 for External HD's to preserve my sanity. Life is good!

Chuck B

Napamule

[benibaz]

Let's say today you make a system Image of C.

tomorrow you install fsx on D -- registry entry of fsx will be on C, and so are fsx.cfg file, scenery.cfg file, etc.

You start installing your freeware addons. Their files go into D. And playing with fsx.

For a month you make no more System Images. You're having too much fun and forget.

Then you install a VIrus. And can't get rid of it.

You restore the System Image of C.

 

So now you have:

On D - FSX folder, with lots of Addons.

On C- Nothing. No registry entry. No scenery.cfg or fsx.cfg file.

 

Only way to fix is to reinstall fsx.

 

--------------------

Better way:

Put all programs on C. FSX as well.

Put all personal files on D. Do NOT put them in the folders C:\My Documents or C:\My Pictures. Those folders are the default locations, but they are on C.

 

Then make a System Image of C:

While playing with FSX, make a System Image of C: every week.

 

Now if you have that Virus you simply restore the Image of C from a week ago.

D is not affected by that. All personal files are still there.

You get the C drive back as it was a week ago.

Back then some addons were not installed. But those are easy to reinstall.

Back then some programs weren't installed. Also easy to reinstall.

And back then the Virus was not installed. Do not install that again.:)

 

-------------------------

 

By the way, you need a backup of your personal files as well. But it's probably best not to use a System Image for that.

Just copy them to an External Harddisk. All of it.

That way if your HDD dies, or the PC is not usable, you can simply pick up you external HDD, and walk with the files to a friends computer and access the files there. You can access files one by one from such a backup.

 

You can't access the System Image. You can't pick out one file and restore it.

You can only restore the whole Image and access a files after.

So for personal files simply copying to an External HD is best.

 

------------------------------

 

In summing up,

I need a bigger SSD 256GB or more

If the SSD becomes C: then place the OS and all programs including FSX on it.

Place all other personal docs etc on D:

Make a system image of C:

Get an external HD as a back-up for progam files,personal docs etc.

 

Go to sleep for a day and decide if it has all been worth it,or go back to FS2004 and stick with Win XP Pro SP3! Barry.

[longbreak754]

..........Go to sleep for a day and decide..........

 

Hi Barry,

 

Whilst I appreciate that you are being given lots of info about regarding the placement of FSX and how, where and why it affects backups etc, being given another view may not be helpfully but......there is another solution that means you don't have to spend anymore cash than you really need to, simply because it will/may make restores go a little bit easier. Use the money that you would be spending on getting a larger SSD to buy a external HDD with the biggest capacity you can afford - this will be used to store the backups.

 

The thing to consider here is how often you will be adding a PAYWARE addon. After all, it is only payware items that will always add entries into the registry and one (or more) of the entries will be directly related to product activation. Very few freeware items do so and those that do are usually utilities that interact with both FSX and the OS or other 3rd party system related apps. Most payware will work OK following a system image restore but some will need to be reactivated and, in some cases, reinstalled anyway.

 

Another thing to consider is how 'failure proof' you want to be in the event of a drive failure.

 

A solution that will allow you to go with the 128Gb SSD for the OS with FSX and all addons on the !Tb HDD is easily achieved. I have one rig where the OS is on C:\ and FSX on D:\ and have used the methods I outline below successfully for many years.

 

Do regular backups of the C drive either using a image or simply backing up essential 'personal' files (ie those that are stored in folders such as Documents, Music etc and any other folder that contains stuff you may want to backup), either manually or by using a dedicated app. To make an image you will need an app such as Acronis (payware - very powerful tool) or Macrium Reflect (freeware - not as powerful as Acronis but easy to use). Both tool will allow you to backup essential files but it can also be done using the windows in-built tool or using software that most external HDD provide.

 

So, for info, the strategy I use is:

 

Initial Install of the OS and FSX - make an initial image of C:\ and then make an initial backup of essential files.

 

Monthly: Create an image of the C:\drive.

Weekly: backup essential files from C:\, including FSX related files. I use the incremental method myself, which means that only new files or those files that have changed since the last backup are included.

 

To restore you simply use the latest image followed by the appropriate incremental(s).

 

As I store most of my addon scenery outside of the FSX I also run a monthly manual backup of the folder where I have it installed - I keep a simply word document updated when I add new scenery so that if I have a failure between backups I know what scenery will need to be re-added after I have restored using the latest backup. I also manually backup those FSX sub-folders that get stuff added to them on a regular basis (for example effects, simobjects, gauges, etc) so if I have to reinstall FSX I can then simply copy the contents of the backup into the fresh install and be back at the state it was before.

 

For a 'belts 'n' braces' approach you could adopt a policy of renewing all backups each time you install something new or delete something old, but IMO, that is not necessary.

[benibaz]

Hello Brian,this will be the final set up for the HDD´s/SSD´s :-

 

I had already paid for the 176GB SSD and the technician had already installed it in the computer,but now I have another SSD (Samsung 850 EVO 500gb) along with the 2TB HDD,so I have instructed the technician as follows:-

 

the Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500gb is to become C: with the OS(Win7 Ultimate*)and FSX.

 

the 2TB HDD is to bcome D:with all personal docs and other stuff.

 

the 176gb SSD will contain the image backup of C: is to become E:

 

* Win 7 Ultimate is,according to the technician,far superior than Win7 PRO x64bit SP1 and that I should not change it.This computer should now be able to cope with FSX because I am not going to get another one for a long time!Barry.

[JSkorna]

Using a SSD as a backup drive is a total waste of hardware. Put the personal docs and other stuff on the SSD and use the 2TB HDD as the backup.

[benibaz]

Using a SSD as a backup drive is a total waste of hardware. Put the personal docs and other stuff on the SSD and use the 2TB HDD as the backup.

 

Hello JSKorna,why is it a waste of hardware using the SSD as a backup? please remember that one of the SSD´s is only 176GB which will become insufficient for all my docs,all other stuff and all add ons for FSX :-

 

I have one SSD 500GB© OS + FSX

one SSD 176GB(E) image back up for C:

one 2TB (D) Docs,all other stuff + all add ons for FSX.

 

 

I think I am becoming progressivley fed up with FSX, I might just as well return to real world flying again.benibaz

[JSkorna]

It's the same as using a Formula 1 car for going to the corner store for milk and eggs.

 

Try this: 500GB SSD: Operating System, FSX, and ALL FSX Add-ons.

176GB SSD: Your docs and other stuff. Unless you have scanned every book in print, it will have room.

2TB drive: Backups.

[benibaz]

It's the same as using a Formula 1 car for going to the corner store for milk and eggs.

 

Try this: 500GB SSD: Operating System, FSX, and ALL FSX Add-ons.

176GB SSD: Your docs and other stuff. Unless you have scanned every book in print, it will have room.

2TB drive: Backups.

 

Hello JSkorna,OK! I will give it a try,I have already instructed the technician to install FSX along with the OS on the 500GB SSD,so it won´t be a problem adding the FSX add-ons as well,the other two drives can fight it out between themselves!That´s if he has not already put the C: drive back-up on the other SSD,I would´nt want to p**s him off asking him to change it over to the HDD drive.benibaz

[napamule2]

Why not ask him. It's not like he was digging a 50 ft ditch with a shovel or anything. It's not hard to un-do and re-do. Takes one minute to undo. Why would he get pissed? Things like this is what gives meaning to an otherwise miserable life of a 'Geek' at a PC store.

 

Buy a bottle of good Scotch. Take it with you. Tell him you were considering getting drunk because this 'PC Business', etc, was bumming you out. But, if he could help you solve your problem then you would not need to take any 'Medicine' and therefore HE could have it. (Wink..Wink). You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Chuck B

Napamule

[benibaz]

Why not ask him. It's not like he was digging a 50 ft ditch with a shovel or anything. It's not hard to un-do and re-do. Takes one minute to undo. Why would he get pissed? Things like this is what gives meaning to an otherwise miserable life of a 'Geek' at a PC store.

 

Buy a bottle of good Scotch. Take it with you. Tell him you were considering getting drunk because this 'PC Business', etc, was bumming you out. But, if he could help you solve your problem then you would not need to take any 'Medicine' and therefore HE could have it. (Wink..Wink). You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Chuck B

Napamule

 

Thanks Chuck B for the advice,but in the end he had to use the E: drive because he could only install the one SSD (Samsung EVO)because of limitations on the motherboard.Now I have another problem,this time with FSX,although it runs perfectly,I tried to add new scenery,and in doing so accidently erased the Addon scenery folder and also the Aircraft folder which appeared in misterious circumtances in the Addon Scenery folder,any idea on a rectification?thanks.Barry.

[longbreak754]

Hi Barry,

 

First, I assume by 'Aircraft' you mean Airplanes - check to see if the SimObject folder is intact and that it contains an Airplanes folder (it should also contain other folders by default, namely Animals, Boats, GroundVehicles, Misc and Rotorcraft) and that the folder(s) has subfolders for the individual default aircraft - I suspect that it does as you say the sim is running perfectly.

 

Next, check to see if the deleted Addon Scenery folder is in the recycle bin. If so, restore it and then see what's in it. If it contains the Airplanes Folder, use cut and paste to save it temporarily to a location outside of FSX. Check that the Addon Scenery only contains two subfolders - called Scenery and Texture - and that both folders are empty for the time being (if necessary make a copy of it to save any files that the folders may contain following the failed attempt to add new scenery).

 

IF THERE ARE NO files in the recycle bin, simply create a new Addon Scenery folder and then create the two required sub folders - Scenery and Texture.

 

Once you have done this, launch and test FSX. Take time to ensure that all the default Airplanes and Helos, etc work. Once satisfied that all is good you can delete the temp Airplanes folder (and Addon Scenery) backup folders created above. If any default Airplanes do not work correctly you could try to copy the contents of the faulting aircraft from the backup folder and test again.

 

If you still have problems after doing this you may have to try a 'repair' (put disk 1 in the drive and it will detect that FSX is install and offer a 'repair' option) but if that doesn't work then your only recourse will be to do a full in-install and re-install.

 

Only when you are sure that FSX is running OK , and before adding anything else, make a backup of the complete FSX folder by simply copying and pasting a copy of it to a location outside of the FSX and then renaming the folder to something like FSX Backup . In the event of similar problems you can then use this backup to copy back missing gauges, default aircraft etc.

 

The next decision to make is to consider how and where you want to install freeware (and some payware) addon scenery. You can use the in-built folder but it is just as easy to set up a folder structure outside of FSX - when adding scenery you simply point to the location when you activate it in FSX. I have done this for years and it has a number of advantages over using the default location. You can make the folder structure as simple or complicated as you wish to meet your needs. You can also, with a little bit of extra work, place most freeware (and some payware) SimObjects outside of FSX as well. Happy to give you more pointers on how to do this if you wish........

[benibaz]

Hello Brian,solved the "aircraft folder" problem,just deleted it as there was nothing in it,when I start FSX and go into settings, Scenery Library,the Addon Scenery appears,but I get the following msg:-"SCENERY.CFG file error.Invalid Remote scenery path in scenery Area.115. click OK to continue".Barry.

[longbreak754]

Hi Barry,

 

See my responses in this thread for a solution to the problem........

 

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?302488-Scenery-CFG-error-Area-001

[benibaz]

Hi Barry,

 

See my responses in this thread for a solution to the problem........

 

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?302488-Scenery-CFG-error-Area-001

 

Hello Brian,everything now working normally.Thanks.Barry.

[longbreak754]

Hi Barry,

 

Glad you got it sorted - happy flyin'