Formation Aerobatics Practice in Virtual Reality in A2A P-51H Mustangs

[Guest Robert455]

 

Or the direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcACdIHcOFg

[av8tor98]

Awesome video Robert! Formation flying in the sim is quite difficult..especially with the very sensitive AI. Any slight movement on the vertical axis can send the AI bobbing up and down quite drastically. Adding VR into the mix looks even more difficult. Very smooth frame rates though. I'm envious ;)

[Guest Robert455]

Hi Joe! Thanks! Glad that some enjoy this stuff. ;-)

 

And I know what you mean about trying to fly formation with the AI. They don't warn before turns but it was how I started practicing. Much prefer humans though. The guys I fly with and I use TeamSpeak or Discord to coordinate and warn.

 

But if anything, I think VR makes it easier to fly formation. You sense moving closer or farther away as well as closure rates easier IMO. The big disadvantage in VR comes in having to fight the urge to not get so close. It's really weird but to get in really tight you have to overcome the pretty real fear of a collision. No way I can describe it. You just really don't want to hit that other airplane even though you know deep down it isn't real.

 

The guy I was flying with is just amazing with his skills. He can just pull up on your wing and park there. He does that with a monitor too. It's pretty awe inspiring to watch him fly. He's just that good. One thing he mentioned and I need to try it is he trims nose down and then always has back pressure and just modulates that for pitch instead of trying to go for neutral stick. Sounds like it makes sense but I haven't tried it yet to know how it works for me.

 

Anyway, cheers!

[av8tor98]

Interesting information, Robert. Does the VR cause you to be nauseous after a while? I understand this seems to be a fairly common problem with VR users. I remember the first time I flew the C208 level D sim at Pan Am years ago. It was like wearing VR goggles for a while but all of that subsided. Even when I began using Track IR for FSX, I had to get use to it also.

I spent a period of time practicing formation flying in FSX...in particular with Aerosoft's Patrouille Suisse package. Awesome aerobatic routines. I haven't installed it again in quite some time, but this video makes me reconsider :) I only use the VR Insight yoke system now, so it may be precise enough to handle the fine control inputs. That old Saitek yoke I had couldn't do the job well at all. I don't suppose you've tried adjusting the null zone on the pitch axis to compensate?

[Guest Robert455]

Hi Joe,

 

I have to couch the nausea thing with everyone has different tolerances but I don't feel bad at all when flying in VR. I will get a little vertigo sometimes if I'm doing something disorienting but not sick. I will feel nauseous if I do the keyboard/mouse stuff "Doom style". I don't play things like Doom or other first person shooters, but the stop/start/turn stuff was really getting to me when I tried an architectural demo. It was really cool and I can see the advantages for VR in architecture, but that kind of movement would get to me. There has been a lot of experimentation with teleporting of sorts to help with that in those kinds of experiences.

 

I don't know for certain, but think that in cockpit sims we have an advantage. When you move your head around, you still see those movements relative to the cockpit even though the cockpit is also moving. But seeing the familiar movements in the cockpit gives your brain a frame of reference and it gets that even though you aren't feeling the G forces from the overall aircraft movements since you really aren't moving at all.

 

One thing that will get just about anyone fast is if there is judder in the screen updates. I had that happen in DCS a while back and thought I could power through it and would be fine. Not so much. I had to stop because I was breaking out in a cold sweat with nausea starting to come on. My computer at the time wasn't up to solid frame rates in DCS and it was getting to me. Solid frame rates are critical.

 

There is another effect at work too that people have been studying where the brain is so used to what it sees as being reality and how it interprets the world that it smooths over some inconsistencies. That's part of what makes the virtual world feel so real when you put on the headset. Even though it's a little cartoony or even totally unreal and far-fetched, if your brain is seeing whatever it is and that's all it sees, it accepts it. It's pretty much impossible to describe and just needs to be experienced. But it's why over on the FlyInside forums there are posts like one by a real pilot who got it all set up, put on the headset, and just sat in the stock 172 in FSX and laughed as he took it all in.

 

I've had the opportunity to fly a number of military sims both with and without motion, hemispherical displays, full cockpits, etc, and what they all lacked was true depth. It was all still a panoramic view of a 2D display. Very cool, though. Would have given anything for one of my own. But other aircraft, airports, or anything just took up a certain space on the screens. In VR, when you see another airplane, it's full size even if it's a distance away. It still has the sensation of being whatever size it is in real life. Airports look like they do when you look out an airplane window or fly over and look at it from a distance etc. It has real size to it.

 

That Yoke looks great! If it is precise enough and has a good feel, I don't see why it wouldn't be fine. For my setup I have the null zone zeroed out with a slight curve to make the sensitivity less around center. It's the spring that messes me up I think. But it's also a matter of skill. I'm getting better but I think I am the biggest problem with my close form skills. ;-)

 

If you want to do some formation, shoot a PM. We usually meet up on weekends at various times of the day depending on who is available. We used to routinely have four-ships but with schedules and such it's currently more like two or three. They are all good guys, sociable, and fun to fly with.