Circle-to-land - keeping the airfield in sight?

Hello

I've been playing/using MS Flight Sim X for a couple of weeks now, but I've been keen on aviation for a while longer, so I took to it quite well. I started off just "playing" but now I am taking it a bit more seriously and trying out real world challenges and longer trips to test out eg navigation skills, by going flight plans and looking at the VORs and NDBs en-route to use, using real world weather, night flights, etc. Also I've looked up a number of the proper approach charts and researched interesting ones, for example Innsbruck which is quite well known but also Nice (LFMN) is quite a challenge to do the visual circle-to-land approach.

Here's the approach plate:

And here's my attempts:

In the two which more closely follow the suggested visual approach path, I just lose sight of the airfield, and need to rely on the ILS to judge the glideslope and a combination of D3.0CGS and ILS heading to time the turn. And if I "cut the corner" so its not a 41 degree turn but a bit less, I can see visually better but there's much less time to line up once turned. So its a bit of a "rock and hard place" situation. Now, in a real airplane, I guess you'd visually adapt by looking slighly to the right instead of straight out the cockpit, but alas all I have is a computer screen, not a multiple-screen setup with loads of monitors. I did manage to plug in a TV into the laptop's HDMI out and use 2 screens, so one is the view outside and the other can be for the instrument panel, ATC, radios etc which has made a big difference.

I guess that's just how things go, but are there any tips for flight simulator which make it easier to do this kind of approach realistically?

...are there any tips for flight simulator which make it easier to do this kind of approach realistically?

Practice, practice, practice.

As compared to real flying the sim is limited in what you see and feel.

Are you flying from the 2D panel or the VC?

It sounds like you might be using the 2D panel which limits view angles.

Flying in the VC with a joystick or yoke with a hat switch allows you to look around a bit better.

If you want to spend some money you can look into Track IR- https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/trackir5/

With it your view changes by simply turning your head.

You do not mention what plane you are flying. A lot of new simmers jump right into the airliners whereas real pilots train in smaller, slower planes a bunch before flying the big iron. There is a reason for that.

It sounds like you are off to a good start, keep at it.

peace,

the Bean

Here is a pic showing what I use (but, mostly 'Top Down' view in window). These are not 'real' tools but work good in Sim(s). Hope this helps.

Chuck B

I have Plan G & use that on my second screen to do the circuit. Cheating but it seems to make up for the lack of peripheral view you get in real world.

Keith

Hi Folks,

Hmm - I see it mentioned on the plate but I don't get the circle to land part in this procedure - typically - circle to land means you are approaching a runway using an approach from the opposite direction of your intended landing runway - and once visual contact is established and can be maintained - you visually circle around and land on the desired runway...

As a side note - it can be a pretty dangerous operation as there have been a bunch of notable high profile GA crashes while using a circle to land...

Regards,

Scott

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

At the Right Hand side of the plate it states ,

"FOR INITIAL APPROACH SEE 19-10"

Also remember that in IFR used Rate 1 turns ,

in your Turn co ordinator instrument it will be labelled "2 MIN" , in other words it will take

2 minutes to complete a 360 degree circle if a balanced Rate 1 is held.

Maintain following ;

- wing tip of little aircraft at angled bank marker index.

and

- keep Balance ball centered .

and

- time your turn with Stop watch.

RATE 1 Turns are ;

- 90 degrees = 30 seconds

- 180 degrees = 60 seconds or 1 min

- 360 degrees = 120 seconds or 2 min.

Another avenue is to use the DME with distance kept constant , if a DME is located at the airport in use.

Cheers

Karol

Hi Folks,

As a another side note this approach seems very similar to the famed IGS to Kai Tak...

Thanks Karol...

Regards,

Scott

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Folks,

 

Hmm - I see it mentioned on the plate but I don't get the circle to land part in this procedure - typically - circle to land means you are approaching a runway using an approach from the opposite direction of your intended landing runway - and once visual contact is established and can be maintained - you visually circle around and land on the desired runway...

 

As a side note - it can be a pretty dangerous operation as there have been a bunch of notable high profile GA crashes while using a circle to land...

 

Regards,

Scott

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There's lots of variations of different styles of "circle to land". Basically, if the runway is aligned 30 or more degrees off the ILS localiser/glideslope (or whatever the navaid used to get there in cloudy weather etc), its a circle-to-land. The Nice approaches "count" as circle to land because they're about 40 degrees off, even though it could me more accurate to say "a slight turn" not a complete circle (there would be no point completely circling anyway??)

Look at the Innsbruck approach for runway 08 - its entered at 255 degrees by following the OEV ILS, then once passed the beacon, you're expected to turn left to 229 deg, then right to 264 deg, then a half turn (ie 180 degrees approx) within the tight valley, to line up with the runway (08). Also look at the approach for runway 26, the localiser is slightly offset, but only a few degrees, so it doesn't count as "circular". Once you've left the guidance of the (eg) ILS approach, you're entirely visual and expected to have the runway in sight to be able to do it.

Nice approach is a circle-to-land in good visibility, for noise abatement, in poorer conditions they let you fly over Antibes for a traditional use-the-ILS guided landing. (Innsbruck is cirlce-to-land due to terrain).

Also I found a few more good ones to look at - firstly Reggio alabria, Italy (LICR). It has a few more nav aids to help you get in at the angle safely, it has a middle marker to indicate an ideal time to turn. Next...Queenstown New Zealand (NZQN) - I've not tried this but it looks bonkers. And, in a small plane - Milos, Greece (LGML). This one is bonkers, there's only about 400 yds to line up once the turn is done (Nice is about 2 miles?) So unless you are precise with the turn, or take risks, its difficult to get. Also the runway is really short!!!

I originally flew the Cessna 172 but I've been trying out and getting the feel for a few other planes now, eg Cessna Caravan and Bombardier CRJ700, Learjet 45, Boeing 737. If I come across an interesting airport I'll go back to the Cessna because its obviously smaller, more maneouvrable, slower and easier to fly the landing.

I'm not worried about the restricted view due to a cockpit taking up loads of screen space, I use a 2nd display which is set up with "Cockpit outside view" and the laptop screen for the dashboard, radio etc.