The hobby is contracting

This seems to say it:

 

In order to pay the bills here we have to run ads, and it's becoming increasingly difficult to pay those bills as the hobby contracts with Microsoft leaving us.

At least FSX hasn't gone completely out of print, like Microsoft Train Simulator did, thanks to the Steam Edition. I think the steady stream of new third-party add-ons for the major flight sims shows there's still plenty of vitality and interest in our hobby. No reason for doom and gloom.

I merely report what Nels Anderson (the founder of FlightSim). I suggest he has a good handle on what's happening.

I do not believe the hobby itself is contracting. Desktop flight simulation, home cockpits or whatever you may want to call it will always be as popular as the amount of people interested in such a thing. What we may be seeing is stagnation in revenue generated by a) The simulator title itself b) Add-ons c)Hardware. All three provide revenue for forums in the form of advertising, so it's a domino effect.

 

Where do things go or what is the solution? In my opinion, the issue is not with MS being out of the picture. The hobby would keep going even if we only had FS2002 or FS2004. The issue is one where the flight simulator community in general both users and developers have to decide what is in the best interest of furthering development of a platform for the long long run/future. We can either stick to FSX or P3D and dwell with 2004 software with a 32bit road block and no real future aside tinkering and reinvention and deny Laminar/X-Plane our money or we can support and with our wallets shape and form the future of a platform that is in development. That is the plain truth and there is no ifs or buts around it. If you had just 1/4 of all FSX users on X-Plane or any other platform, the add-on developers would all have a great pay year and the ads here and everywhere else would do great.

 

With that said, my reply is not a pro anything one. I'll even take a moment to question why the heck Laminar cannot simply put a little more effort into solving the two issues that are a deal breaker for the community, ATC and Seasons. But I do sincerely believe these things will be resolved and the future years from now will be with X-Plane. Lastly, I think there are people who would like to say what I just said or express the idea that the future of flight simming with MSFS is a 32bit dead end for fear of financial loss or other issues, but to the heck with it.

AH....1st class memberships will help.

Even if everything shuts down I have years of simulator things to do.

I still play M.A.X. for Pete's sake.....

 

Later

OK..so I missed the point..now i get it.

I'll even take a moment to question why the heck Laminar cannot simply put a little more effort into solving the two issues that are a deal breaker for the community, ATC and Seasons. But I do sincerely believe these things will be resolved and the future years from now will be with X-Plane.

 

Not to hijack this thread but, there are other issues with X-Plane, like the stark default scenery, the byzantine user interface, and the cult of personality for X-Plane's creator and his lack of interest in needed improvements. P3D can never be marketed like FSX was, for reasons that are not to be discussed in this forum. I doubt very much either of those programs are the long-term future of flight simulation, will ever grow beyond niche markets within our hobby.

 

I wonder if Nels' comment was about Microsoft no longer advertising on the site, or did it mean the volume of advertising in general?

.

 

I wonder if Nels' comment was about Microsoft no longer advertising on the site, or did it mean the volume of advertising in general?

 

That is a good question, but whichever way the answer goes, the fact that there is no recent/new version of a simulator that everyone is on board with is an economic depression for people who make a living out of the hobby, affecting the 3rd party guys and on down the chain.

 

As for X-Plane, resolving at least some of the issues via user created plug-ins or methods is still a better shot than a dead title and I'm not certain of what the extent of your familiarity with X-Plane is, but I could discuss several things with regards to improving default scenery, etc. I am not an advocate for X-Plane or any simulator, I am simply on board with everyone here on the hobby and always looking at what is going on and seeing what is and can be done with everything available, and that includes P3D and X-Plane.

I think Nels Anderson's words were quite clear "as the hobby contracts"

 

I'm just an ordinary enthusiast with no special insight where as Nels Anderson must have a wider view and understanding of what's happening.

I think Nels Anderson's words were quite clear "as the hobby contracts"

 

I'm just an ordinary enthusiast with no special insight where as Nels Anderson must have a wider view and understanding of what's happening.

 

I would then say that "As the potential revenue generated by the hobby contracts" would be a more accurate way to put it. The same number of people and probably more are using some sort of flight simulator and most of them have purchased about everything they need for that simulator software wise. Bring on a new simulator that impresses them or that every developer is on board with and can take it from vanilla to everything on top and you'll see how quickly the hobby explodes revenue wise. There is no simulator out there aside FSX with sufficient market share for the developers to invest their time in (Carenado and Aerosoft being the exception to a certain degree). I think FS2004 is a better financial investment to develop for than X-Plane as far as I know.

 

Or I could be wrong and the actual number of people flight simming is going down. But I wouldn't gauge that by forum participation or purchases of software/hardware. Some people don't want every airport title and not everyone purchases hardware or all hardware available.

But's not what Nels Anderson wrote. You shouldn't try to put words in others mouths: given his position here, he can change them if he wants to.

But's not what Nels Anderson wrote. You shouldn't try to put words in others mouths: given his position here, he can change them if he wants to.

 

I'm not putting words in his mouth.............that's why I specifically said "I would then say" and specified that my comment would in my opinion be a more accurate way to put it. He may agree or disagree but I'm not misquoting him.

 

I think you may have read me wrong, and if others do, my intended comment is that it may not be the hobby contracting but the revenue or potential revenue that is contracting.

I think Nels Anderson's words were quite clear "as the hobby contracts"

 

I'm just an ordinary enthusiast with no special insight where as Nels Anderson must have a wider view and understanding of what's happening.

 

No, he said "as the hobby contracts with Microsoft leaving us".

 

Which I find a bit enigmatic. Did MS actually tell him: "we're leaving" ?

Actually, what I have in front of me right now in terms of FSX and all the addons in the scenery and aircraft area, including 1 0r 2 yet to come but promised soon, I'm perfectly happy and need nothing further to continue my participation in this hobby as long as I choose. IOW, what we have right now is pretty darn good and will only get better as the hardware advances.

No, he said "as the hobby contracts with Microsoft leaving us".

 

Which I find a bit enigmatic. Did MS actually tell him: "we're leaving" ?

 

Microsoft stopped developing FSX11, launched Flight and stopped that. We all new Microsoft was leaving a few years ago.

I am not optimistic for a new flight sim with the scope of MSFS, the latter had thirty years to develop a fan base and a customer base for the payware developers. But it is a niche market which I doubt is large enough to attract a development team capable of creating a replacement. For less time and effort they can create an FPS or RPG which will sell ten times the copies.

 

And to the new generation of gamers FS2004/FSX are "old", so we're not likely to see many new faces. These are the people who will not even try an excellent piece of software because, "I went to their website and the program hasn't been updated in a year".

 

Finally there is the complexity of FS9/FSX; to get the most from it you need to get "under the hood" and tinker, you need some knowledge of of your system, you need to be comfortable extracting downloads and copying/moving files to proper locations, you need to be prepared to tweak cfg and ini files., to layer and relayer scenery to get things working decently. A logical successor would be equally, if not more, complex. But Steam has created a generation of gamers who cannot open a menu and select an item without a video to show them how; a group to whom anything more involved than clicking a button to download/install their new game is "too complicated". Little market here for anything beyond "grab your joystick and start flying".

 

I have noticed a change in topics in flight sim forums the past couple of years. Threads regarding realistic procedures, tweaking performance (system and aircraft), etc. are being replaced by requests for being able to wander around the cabin of a jetliner in flight, or more wing views (apparently newcomers are more interested in being a passenger than a pilot). I fear we are in the twilight of actual flight sims, with subsequent offerings having simplified flight models and catering to social gamers who get together for a flight in their custom A380 where they wander around the lounge and chat via twitter or skype.

Actually, what I have in front of me right now in terms of FSX and all the addons in the scenery and aircraft area, including 1 0r 2 yet to come but promised soon, I'm perfectly happy and need nothing further to continue my participation in this hobby as long as I choose. IOW, what we have right now is pretty darn good and will only get better as the hardware advances.

 

Which may be at the heart of the problem. The Old Guard (la vieille garde), perfectly happy with 10 year old technology ...

Microsoft stopped developing FSX11, launched Flight and stopped that. We all new Microsoft was leaving a few years ago.

 

 

Then why didn't they give Dovetail the full rights ?

They probably would have, just not for a price Dovetail wanted to pay.

If the hobby is "contracting", why does it keep eating up more and more of my HDD space?

Simply because you fill more of your HDD doesn't mean that everyone's else is.

Sadly, you can tell that the financial state of development is getting bad when they're doing city/area specific night lighting or.........having the time on their hands to do an X-Plane equivalent. I'm pretty optimistic however that we'll get what the hobby needs sooner than later.

 

Or we can kickstart it. If Megaman can come back as Might No 9, perhaps we can have a Mighty Flight Simulator 1.0

If the hobby is "contracting", why does it keep eating up more and more of my HDD space?

 

I'm with ya Bean! It's eating up more of mine;)

Ok everybody-delete all the Flight Simulator files that you have that are more than 10 years old-NOW! (Whoops...WAIT!... that would mean we would only have files for the FS9 left on our HD- yikes!). What would we do then? Call Microsoft? Call Nels?

Chuck B

Napamule

Well, I like many others ....cannot worry about the youngsters....too much, as I am long in the tooth....but don't know about HDD and all of that...but FSX, P3D, PMDG, Level D, Quality Wings, and YES, the DEFAULT Cessna 172 and The Alabeo Skywagon take up usually about 10 or more hours of my time each and every day...and I did not include the reading of manuals and other information...so ....Flight Simulation is not "Contracting" for Al Verthein...the idea is not in my Galaxy even.....al v

The problems are not for the young people getting on board..........they'll figure out what's what. The problem is for the add-on developers who aren't going to have much to work with and for the community.........we could end up with a stagnated platform. I don't know about anyone here, but as a Modern Warfare player, I am sure glad I am not stuck playing Quake. If you don't see the sad state that would be, we'll be in that state and well on our way. I don't think anyone who has played Modern Warfare would argue that they're good with Quake and Wolfenstein on DOS.......but they wouldn't know any better if they hadn't played Modern Warfare. Will there be a Modern Warfare of simulator for us is the question. We are currently 11 years in the past in the era of Train Simulator and Mechwarrior 3. Even the Mechwarrior people got their Modern Warfare recently. Huge difference from the visuals of the early 2K era.