Hand fllying jets

I've never been a great manual pilot particularly with jets. I've been flying the default 737 in fsx and am trying to work on manually flying the plane from the time I am about 30 miles out after descending to touchdown.

One of the big problems I have is the amount of time it takes to trim the plane. After a speed change it takes time for jet engines to stabilize and I am spending a lot of time trimming with all the altitude changes and turns so that I am not paying attention to all the other things that need to be done. So now after a speed change or turn I just use AP for altitude hold and leave everything else on manual. I make all my turns manually and do not use auto throttle.

Another thing I've worked on is turns particularly at speeds under 200 which is normally the situation near the airport. My approach has been to do some tests where I take note of the speed, flap settings, and bank angle and then observe how the plane reacts. For example for a 20 degree turn I pull back gradually on my stick (no yoke) until I have a pitch angle which keeps me level. I don't use the vertical speed indicator other than sneaking a glance once in a while. I keep my eye on the pitch angle and that seems to work better.

For turns greater than 20 degrees depending on how long the turn is I lose speed enough so that I need to increase the throttle. To do this I advance the throttle and look at my air speed and use that as my guide. I don't really look at N1.

I'm wondering what some of the good sim pilots out there think of what I am doing. Also, I'm looking for any tips like other visual clues I might use to make turns easier and more precise. Trimming jets in particular has driven me crazy for years, but they are really touchy with the trim.

To be honest, I find hand flying FSX to be incredibly hard. I guess it's because I'm used to the real thing. However, your thing during turns sounds correct. Most large aircraft I have flown for real require a little bit of extra thrust to maintain speed. The RJ I fly requires about 1% increase of N1 to maintain speed during 30 degree bank. About 5% for 45 degrees.

The problem with trim is you don't really have any physical contact with the yoke in the sim and your physical yoke doesn't really coincide with the sim yoke, so it's hard to gauge how much trim you really need. That's my personal observation. Plus that FSX either moves the trim too fast or not fast enough so it is an ongoing battle to maintain level flight. I feel your pain!

Your method for turning is pretty accurate. We will generally be looking at the attitude of the aircraft and "scan" the other instruments (IAS, IVSI etc) to make sure the power/attitude combination is giving the desired result and adjust accordingly.

The only thing I'd change, is how you adjust your speed. We have rough N1 settings that in a clm/crz/dec will give us a certain airspeed. I say "rough" as it does depend on how heavy we are. This comes from experience, trial and error. It also varies between aircraft.

You probably already know this, but remember the order of attitude, power, trim. Settle into your desired attitude when you reach your new altitude/heading/etc. then bring your engines to the desired power setting (all the while maintaining your desired altitude/heading using constant control inputs) then once your engines and airspeed stabilizes, trim off the controls. This very fundamental but tried-and-true method eliminates the need for unnecessary trimming action, even in big jets.

Also helpful is a good, effective instrument scan. As per the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook, focus on the attitude indicator for a good pitch attitude (e.g. 3, -5, 12 degrees, etc.) then briefly move your eyes to other instruments for a cross-check, make small corrective actions if necessary, then come right back to the attitude indicator.

Easier said than done though. In the real airplane you at least have a physical feedback of how your airplane is moving. After 100 or so hours of flight training, I can now feel if the airplane is above or below altitude even just by 40 feet. In the sim, this luxury is obviously not available, so it's always a constant battle for trimming the airplane off to the right place. But with enough practice, you'll get the hang of it.

Have fun!

I've had FSX for about 8 years and have never touched the autopilot in all that time because I prefer flying 100% manually in external spot view all the time, it's great fun and you haven't lived til you've flown and landed a big jet completely manually, bush pilot style, it's just a matter of experience and practice.

The advantage of external view is that you can see how the plane 'sits' in the air looking beautiful, and you get further visual clues of speed and altitude from the terrain whizzing by, and panning around etc.

By comparison, being cooped up in the cockpit view is sort of boring, but to each his own.

Incidentally Armstrong landed on the moon manually, so if manual is good enough for him.....;)

"Neil Armstrong was manually descending towards the lunar surface with no computer back up available to assist in landing. For the next three minutes the

only voice you hear on the tape is Armstrong's. Mission Control is silent.

There's a reason Mission Control is silent. That's because Neil Armstrong, and Neil Armstrong alone, is in sole control of the Lunar Module as it descends.

Nothing they can say or do will help him. Everyone is holding

their breath. A lot of people were busy praying"

href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/25/1124164/-Neil-Armstrong-the-1201-alarm-and-what-it-means-to-be-great

"Roger, Tranquility Base. You got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathin' again!"

I watched that happening. It was EXCITING!!

Pat☺

They were turning blue because Neal and Buzz were almost out of fuel due to overshooting their landing target by 3 miles.

Pete and Al landed right on the money.

peace,

the Bean

You do the turns wrong.

(sorry that sounds too harsh, you do a lot right really. but you need to add power first in a turn, and look at trim/pitch later. try to maintain constant speed in the turn.)

If you make a turn on autopilot (by moving the hdg bug) you will see the plane

-autothrottle go up

-trim change

Do the turns the same way. Increase thrust in a turn and maybe add a touch of trim as required.

To get a better feel for it, do some flying in the ultralight. make turns using only bank and nose up. do not move the throttle. You will see it go very wrong very fast.

And yes, effects of changes are slow in a large plane. You will have to anticipate. If you need to be slower later, start reducing thrust right now.

This kind of flying will need you to be on top of things. Remember the old saying.

Aviate, navigate, communicate.

Keep an eye on your altitude and VS at all times. That low to the ground especially.

Also your airspeed. No speed equals no Lift and a verry messy end.

Heading ("Navigate") comes second. Better miss the runway and go around.

And communicate comes last. Don't worry to much about replying to ATC. They rather you miss a call then have you crashing onto the RW, main building, or their precious Tower.

To get this exactly right you need:

a lot of flying experience in small jets, many succesful ILS landings under your belt this large plane (and not another large plane!), and eventually you will get it manually.

One thing you can do to practice. Do "fake landings" mid air. You can do these anywhere. Climb to an altitude of 7000 ft above the ground. Fly Full Flaps, speed at approach speed, just below Full flaps speed.

Pick a VOR far away and fly straight to it.

Then focus on a altitude of 4000ft. Make a slow, gradual descent to that altitude, pretending there is a runay there.

The glideslope angle is 300ft down for every mile down. So keep an eye on distance to the VOR, and altitude.

Lets say you start the descent at 60 NM away, then

60--7000

59--6700

58--6400

57--6100

write the rest of this table out on paper and Post-It it to your screen.

Aim for a vertical speed of around 800 ft per minute to start with and slightly adjust from there.

To start the descent... DO NOT POINT THE NOSE DOWN !!!!!

Instead, just reduce power. (gently)

just "let her gently slip beneath the surface".

Make for a flare at 4000 ft. above the ground, then climb to 7000 again and repeat.

-------------

From flying the ultralight a lot you will learn:

to climb--add power.

to slow down--point the nose up

to descend--reduce power

(for example. if you point the nose up a little and keep holding it there (adding trim does the same thing), the ultralight will climb, but then slow down, and end up flying slower, (and only a little higher).).

Any other plane does the same.

--------------------

Also, in the 747 and other planes there is no adjustment for bank angle. To better see what is happening you can easily add it.

In the aircraft.cfg file of 747 change:

Max_Bank=25

to

Max_Bank=25, 20, 15, 10, 5

You can adjust the bank angle with shortcut keys:

set those up in: menu bar - options - settings - controls.

"autopilot - bank angle - increase"

"autopilot - bank angle - decrease"

That way you can make shallower bank angles in a turn when practicing on autopilot. It helps you see what the throttles and trim are doing.

And who can forget pilot George Kennedy's superb manual airmanship in 'The Concorde:Airport 79' as he pulls up into a half-loop to evade a heatseeking missile, then opens the window to fire a decoy flare before rolling safely off the top..;)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/airport-conc_zpseqcyrghk.jpg~original

You do the turns wrong.

(sorry that sounds too harsh, you do a lot right really. but you need to add power first in a turn, and look at trim/pitch later. try to maintain constant speed in the turn.)

 

If you make a turn on autopilot (by moving the hdg bug) you will see the plane

-autothrottle go up

-trim change

 

Do the turns the same way. Increase thrust in a turn and maybe add a touch of trim as required.

 

To get a better feel for it, do some flying in the ultralight. make turns using only bank and nose up. do not move the throttle. You will see it go very wrong very fast.

 

 

And yes, effects of changes are slow in a large plane. You will have to anticipate. If you need to be slower later, start reducing thrust right now.

This kind of flying will need you to be on top of things. Remember the old saying.

Aviate, navigate, communicate.

 

Keep an eye on your altitude and VS at all times. That low to the ground especially.

Also your airspeed. No speed equals no Lift and a verry messy end.

 

Heading ("Navigate") comes second. Better miss the runway and go around.

 

And communicate comes last. Don't worry to much about replying to ATC. They rather you miss a call then have you crashing onto the RW, main building, or their precious Tower.

 

To get this exactly right you need:

a lot of flying experience in small jets, many succesful ILS landings under your belt this large plane (and not another large plane!), and eventually you will get it manually.

 

One thing you can do to practice. Do "fake landings" mid air. You can do these anywhere. Climb to an altitude of 7000 ft above the ground. Fly Full Flaps, speed at approach speed, just below Full flaps speed.

Pick a VOR far away and fly straight to it.

Then focus on a altitude of 4000ft. Make a slow, gradual descent to that altitude, pretending there is a runay there.

The glideslope angle is 300ft down for every mile down. So keep an eye on distance to the VOR, and altitude.

Lets say you start the descent at 60 NM away, then

60--7000

59--6700

58--6400

57--6100

write the rest of this table out on paper and Post-It it to your screen.

 

Aim for a vertical speed of around 800 ft per minute to start with and slightly adjust from there.

 

To start the descent... DO NOT POINT THE NOSE DOWN !!!!!

Instead, just reduce power. (gently)

just "let her gently slip beneath the surface".

 

Make for a flare at 4000 ft. above the ground, then climb to 7000 again and repeat.

 

-------------

From flying the ultralight a lot you will learn:

to climb--add power.

to slow down--point the nose up

to descend--reduce power

 

(for example. if you point the nose up a little and keep holding it there (adding trim does the same thing), the ultralight will climb, but then slow down, and end up flying slower, (and only a little higher).).

Any other plane does the same.

--------------------

 

Also, in the 747 and other planes there is no adjustment for bank angle. To better see what is happening you can easily add it.

In the aircraft.cfg file of 747 change:

Max_Bank=25

to

Max_Bank=25, 20, 15, 10, 5

 

You can adjust the bank angle with shortcut keys:

set those up in: menu bar - options - settings - controls.

"autopilot - bank angle - increase"

"autopilot - bank angle - decrease"

 

That way you can make shallower bank angles in a turn when practicing on autopilot. It helps you see what the throttles and trim are doing.

Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed and helpful response. I always get a lot of good info from these forums. Well, looks like it's back to the drawing board.

yeah, I could have said "add power in the turns" and then left it there.

But it's better to know how it works.

That's why I recommend a short refresher course in the ultralight.

fly level in it. check your airspeed and altitude.

add power only.

you will see the altitude increase, but the speed staying pretty much the same.

(very counter intuitive)

It's hard to explain. the wings effectively change a slight increase in airspeed into more "Lift".

Lift is the force that lifts the aircraft. And since the wings are forward of the aircraft mid-point, it also lifts the nose. More speed of air over wings---= more Lift.

Not bad to take a refresher course every once in a while. I do it as well sometimes. Will help with hand flying heavies.

Another exercise:

overspeed in the ultralight.

increase throttle. while using the stick to keep flying level altitude.

increase again and keep level

etc, until overspeed.

Have fun.