ScottishMike

Thanks to the Pen Dragon for the E6B link, may your ink never run dry. What is your ink consumption per leg? Current Nov 1st. weather in Lansing: Electronic E6B in use:

“Turn that heater up!” The cold seemed to be seeping in through the fabric of the Airedale. We had decided to test some more despite the conditions. It was below freezing at ground level only getting colder as we climbed to 5000': Visibility not good so Suzanne was Pilot in Command, she had instrument and night rating, I had neither. We mainly wanted to test if using three weather reports: departure, mid point, and destination would give a more accurate flight plan. The three reports were: Lansing 4690' 245@28 Kts, Bloomington: 4793' 276@31 Kts Palmyra 4855' 290@30 Kts Our no wind cruise 100 Kts – average 30KTS wind = Cruise 70 Kts Ground speed 90Kts Indicated Air Speed. Climb to cruise 9 minutes covering 14 nm. Total distance 170 nm. - 14 nm. = 156 nm at 70 Kts = 2.22 hours = 2 hrs 14 min + 9 min (climb time) = 2 hrs 23 min So target time = 2hrs 23min What did we learn? Weather is a variable feast, the weather was accurate at time of departure but it can and does change within minutes, never mind hours. Bloomington was over an hour away, Zelmer over two hours away, weather had changed by the time we arrived. Actual time was 2hrs. 22min. It looks good, but it was more by accident than planning. We missed Zelmer on first approach (it's not an easy airfield to spot) and had to do a go around. We had a 14 kts. crosswind and the second approach was difficult, we landed on the grass next to the runway. I wonder if that is allowed in the rules?

There is probably no one left at Microsoft who knows or cares. The FS team will have all moved on to other jobs and other companies. As chris_eve said if you get it working to your satisfaction what else matters? Because certain variables have names that are similar or the same as real world ones it does not mean they are the same, or act in the same way in FS flight equations as they do in the real world.

“We missed the Bingo” “So it appears” Suzanne replied. We had spent the weekend up in the mountains, we both needed to see how the Airdale would cope with altitude. We decided to fly the Moriarty to Gallup leg against a proper plan. The aircraft acquitted itself well, if a little slow. Suzanne's flight plan was: 0E0-->VOR ABQ-->NM74-->KGNT-->KGUP planned time: 1 hour 50 minutes. (including a 12minute circuit at Gallup) We were also checking timing deviating from a straight line; sacred Mt Taylor (11,300') in the way: Secondly we needed to find a safe cruising speed at 8500', any higher and we would have to carry oxygen. The leg was completed safely without going over 8500'. Thirdly Suzanne wanted to be more precise with wind speeds, FS Global real weather told us: 0E0 weather at 8,263' 221@ 9 Kts KGUP weather 8,205' 291@ 10 Kts Suzanne averaged it at 9.5 Kts headwind. Cruising speed at 8,500' we determined at 100 Kts. 10 Kts (rather than 9.5) headwind therefore cruise 90 Kts Actual departure 10:02, actual arrival 11:47 time 1 hr. 45mins Planned time: 1hr. 50mins. But yet again we had not done the circuit at Gallup saving 12 minutes, so really we were not 5 minutes early but 7 minutes late. Safely in Gallup. “Where did we go wrong? 7 minutes out on an 140 nm. Leg” I asked “Definitely winds; I kept a detailed record. The weather at 0E0 and Gallup were both correct, but around 10 nm from 0E0 wind picked up to 180@18 then Albuquerque wind was 221@22.and it satyed more or less the same till 10 nm. From Gallup.” She had noted all the wind changes during the flight. “FS Global Weather loads weather from all stations we overfly, so to plan accurately we would have to know winds for each station. Start and end stations are not enough to be accurate” She concluded. “What a PITA!” I agreed.

Two things I forgot: The peanuts must be salted. and Check those kids aren't hiding amongst the cargo.

Excellent choice JSMR, if you can forgo the glamour of military these guys (Seven Seas Air Cargo) will rent you this for a month for peanuts: They even fitted a slightly modernised panel that might make things a bit easier: And you could help me out. The Airdale is a little short of space and pay load. With Suzanne's tools (already reduced to bare minimum) her make-up case had nowhere to go. You could be the solution. And earn a few bucks on the way!

“Springfield or St Louis?” “Springfield.” She replied “Big enough to have a decent hotel, but small enough to be friendly.”. The taxi took over half an hour to arrive. It was a Best Western, not luxury but good enough. “I thought it went quite well. Food'l be here in a minute.” I was hungry. It was our first proper timed test run Lansing to Zelmer. “It looks good if you just look at the headlines, plan was 2hours 25minutes, actual 2hours 26minutes. But looking at the detail you realize we were 13minutes late. Just lucky the 13minutes was wiped out by not doing the 12minute circuit I had included in the plan.” We had decided that we would do a proper circuit at destination airports. Her words rang in my ears:”You are going to have to be disciplined: Join the circuit 1000' above the runway heading upwind, continue for 2minutes then crosswind for 2minutes downwind for 4minutes descending to 500' above Rwy then 2minutes base leg then final, which should also be close enough to 2minutes. So I can plan 12 minutes on arrival overhead. Subject to ATC of course”. Suzanne showed me the plan we (well, mostly she) had worked out: Airport to airport distance 169 n.m. Climb to cruise 5000' 7minutes and 6n.m. 163 n.m at cruise remaining Normal cruise 106 kts – wind 233/35 kts actual cruise 73kts (163 n.m. / 73 = 2.23 hrs = 2hrs 14minutes) add 12minutes for circuit = 2hrs 26minutes Given we skipped the circuit because we were behind planned time it's not a particularly good result. “What do you think went wrong” Her plan really, so she could answer. “Mostly the wind. It wasn't consistently 233/35 kts. It varied from 223/37 to 238/32. Almost a head wind but not perfectly so. Always planning for a circuit on arrival does give us some le-way. As today it can be omitted to save time.” “Let's sleep on it and discuss it during the flight back tomorrow. Keeping to heading, altitude and speed more taxing than I had expected. The aircraft had an autopilot but it was not connected. I'm off to bed.” I said wearily. “See you tomorrow, seven sharp for breakfast.” She reminded. “Yes Ma'm.” I saluted.

Pen Dragon, that is NOT a tail dragger, just the load manager not wanting to admit he put Suzanne's make up bag at the rear of the load bay. Can't remember were the Airdale came from. Did a quick search here and at the "other" site and could not find it. I know it's not payware so it's attached as a zip for anyone who wants it. Thanks to the author whoever he or she is. Beagle Airedale.zip

“Back home to Scotland soon?”. “Don't know. I always fantasised about a road trip across America.” She sang a few bars from Simon and Garfunkel's All Come to look for America. “And here we are, contemplating following route 66 from Chicago to the west coast. Paid for by you. Fortuitous or insane?” She stared up from the map, a quizzical look tossed at me as we navigated the awkward route through heavy traffic from Schaumburg Regional to Lansing. All routes seemed to want to take us into Chicago. “You do agree the Staggerwing was absolutely the wrong aircraft for this challenge?” She looked at me almost apologetically. After three circuits I had had to agree. The Beech was exciting in a manner she had called “A macho wet dream”. A pig on short final due to poor taildragger visibility, taxing just as difficult and in the cruise the torque twist needed constant adjustment. “But an Airdale? It's going from the sublime to the ridiculous.” I replied, still disappointed the Staggerwing had been returned to it's hanger, beautiful but unsuitable. “Not for this challenge. She is slow, stable, easy to land and predictable. Predictability is what this challenge is all about. Wait till you see and fly her.” She had a glint in her eye. Suzanne and I drove on in silence heading for Lansing Municipal where the Beagle Airedale she had found was hangered. “She's behind this hanger”: And indeed there she was. I was lost for words. Not “she” but “it” or rather bits of “it”. I opened my mouth to speak then shut it again, speechless. “Suzanne, are you crazy?” It was all I could find to say. “We can have her ready for 1st. November. No problems” she replied. “You ARE crazy, you've flipped, gone doo-la-ly. Maybe November 2026.” That's when she cracked up, doubled over with laughter. “That was priceless, your face was a picture.” She recovered enough, grabbed my hand and dragged me past two other hangers and there She was: “Well?” She asked. “Certainly looks very clean.” I was still in shock from the previous offering. The owner showed us round. “Let's take her for a few circuits.” He sat in the left seat, after take off he said: “You have control”: Back on the ground we inspected the engine. Everything was immaculate: Instrumentation also in good condition but basic. “It has no autopilot.” I remarked. “Doesn't need one, I spent many hours in an Airdale just after passing my PPL, get her trimmed correctly and she sticks on course and altitude.” Suzanne replied. “OK, I trust your judgment. Let's enter her.” For once I didn't really care about winning; spending two weeks together prize enough.

The smell is unique, comforting and inviting. Old well maintained leather. “Mum had horses” Suzanne mused “The smell brings back memories of helping her clean and wax her favourite old saddles, damp cloth to clean then Neatsfoot oil rubbed in to nourish.” Leather smell mingled with engine oil and exhaust to define the day. We sat on the tarmac, engine off but still warm. “Well, what do you think?” I asked. We were sitting in the SimTech Staggerwing. Three circuits each. “There are easier aeroplanes to fly. Visibility on the ground is a pig, taxi round a bend at more than 5 knots and you'll have to repair the wing tips, brake too hard and you'll bury the prop in the ground if you're lucky enough not to ground loop. In the air she comes into her own, but torque from that powerful radial is felt. Visibility at touch down again difficult. She is beautiful and powerful, but from what you have told me about the competition speed is irrelevant. Why not an easier plane? The competition is about flight planning. From what I understand it's simple; we give our target time for the leg to Viper before starting, then the actual time is measured against it, any deviation penalised.” I replied: “Yep pretty much. I think. We still have to decide what to do about the weather. As not everyone has real weather Viper could choose one of the basic themes for each leg. That would give fairness and variety. Timing I hope will be kept simple, wheels up start to full stop finish.” Suzanne gave me her serious look, used when she had bad news to deliver: “So really the rally will test two things. Firstly our ability to prepare a sensible flight plan with accurate time stages. Secondly our discipline and piloting ability to fly exactly to the plan.” She was being polite, by “we” and “us” she meant me. We had joked about our different piloting styles many times. Me: fly by the seat of my pants, She: disciplined, by the numbers, precise.

Well it was a good excuse to extend our stay! Suzanne and I decided to look at possible contenders for the new competition. We were in two minds about entering, still are in fact. When we saw this advertised as available we had to at least have a look: Maybe old, and not as detailed as some but one of my all time favourite aircraft.

I like the idea of Route 66. Just twenty four hours from Tulsa, but do you know the way to Amarillo? Maybe the Wichita linesman can help. Would this be allowed?

I propose Airbasil be the official photographer for the next race.

“It gives me great pleasure to accept this prize on behalf of my team and our sponsors: Squitts Porridge Oats.” I looked around, everyone seemed relaxed except Smolinski and the Squitts Marketing Manager, I guess they felt somewhat overdressed in Tuxedos; not the usual dress seen at the Southside Diner. I continued: “This prize will, in no small way, ensure our charitable trust will have surplus funds to distribute to needy aged aviators.” I looked around again “I see some here may well be approaching the aged criteria as I speak.” Someone shouted: “Sit down and shut up or we'll ALL be in that category before YOU finish!” “Before I do that I must thank Viper for organising this crazy race, and all those who participated. Not forgetting Smolinski here, who despite his keyboard failing, managed to join us this evening.” Smolinski smiled at the mention. I don't think he got invited to many parties. “A part of the prize will be donated to the CAC (Cleveland Airtraffic Controllers benevolent fund). Of particular mention Dangerous Dave's B29 and JMSR's Mustang both polished to an inch of their airworthiness certificates. And of course we all know who the real winner is: taoftedal His Canadian Sea Fury almost as fast as his graciousness at timing. Our team thank you! Before I sit down there are a couple of other competitors I would like to mention.” Groans from the rest of the table. “Defaid, that miracle of story telling, if he had won, this speech would have been twice as long but twice as enjoyable. Not too sure about how he and his navigator managed to travel through time to get here, must have been something to do with that green tractor beam. Was that out of X-Files or The Outer Limits? But never mind, they're here now! Don't mention the dog though, way too scary! And what about jgf? Have any of us twiddled and fiddled with more .cfgs or .air files?” “Sit down! They want to serve the food.” “Just one more thing before I do. Suzanne was wondering if anybody had or knew where John's bmp was? Well thanks all, I raise a glass to you.” A quick chorus of: Should old acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind? Should old acquaintance be forgot and old lang syne? For auld lang syne, my dear for auld lang syne we'll take a cup of kindness yet for auld lang syne. Someone pulled me into my seat and the food was served.

“I'm tempted to drop in to Indianapolis. I've never been; there must be one or two good racing car museums.” I looked pleadingly at her, pretending the little boy wants cookie look. “I'm Pilot in Command. NO! We are direct for Cleveland. Boys and their toys”. Suzanne had a much more pragmatic approach to all things mechanical. The Queen rumbled on eastwards. I suspected it had purred once, but years with the Brazilian Army had taken their toll. “It feels strange, rather like the last term of high school, looking forward to holidays but wondering where to go, old friends splitting up all going different ways.” Unusually emotional for Suzanne, but I felt it too. This adventure was coming to a close. Where to next? “John did well...” She continued: “I was hoping he would find his bmp, surely someone must know what Scrub did with it.”. “Will there be a party?” John asked. We sat together at a diner near Hopkins. “Well, first let's notify Viper of the official timings: Leg 4 KFSW to KCLE 432 n.m. Wheels up 10:16:24 Local 15:16:24 GMT Wheels down 16:32::53 Local 16:32:53 GMT TOTAL time 1 hour 16 minutes 29 seconds Average ground speed 342 kts Now we can celebrate!” Strangely it didn't feel like a celebration. “Well let's just raise a glass to Viper for organising it, Taoftedal for the real victory, JSMR for probably the prettiest craft in the race, JGF for his P-38, and DangerousDave for being... well ..dangerous in his B-29. But can we wait for DEFAID and his navigator to celebrate the best storytelling? They should be here in 75 years. “Cheers to them all!”

Suzanne was fuelling up, John studying his maps. “Suzanne you're good at contacting everyone, can you send them all a message that we have permission to use runway 060C at Hopkins. Use the word RACE with their call sign and they should be cleared for a straight in to 060C. John follow ATC instructions, you can't afford another run in with them after your LAX visit. And don't get confused; there is a Rwy 060R, the main and longest, parallel to it and shorter is Rwy 060C and although it is designated C for centre there is no 060 left. To keep it simple two 060 runways, land on the shortest. Weather is OK, best altitudes are 18,100' 266 degrees at 27 kts Air temp -26c or 23,300' 244 degrees at 42 kts Air temp -36c It's cold up there so watch out for ice. Take it as fast as your mojo allows” I winked at Suzanne. “Well, good luck Kiddo, last leg. Don't spare the horses.” Nice take-off and climb out (full power and 3000'/min climb) John had remember to lean as he climbed. The wind is all over the place now 327 at 66 kts. Kept getting blown off course. Half way: Into Ohio and wind is now 299 at 15 kts dropped to 18,300' hoping to find better winds. None found, climbed back up to 23,000' Started descent for Hopkins, ominous cloud cover. Hopkins in sight, I'm too high and too fast. Banged full flaps and wheels down to help slow down. If that was not enough I have a cross to tail wind of 22 kts A mess of a landing, thought it better to run onto the grass than fight it and overturn on the tarmac. had to re-start the engine, forgot to rich the mixture on descent and it stopped as I landed. Wheels down time: Time for leg 4: 1 hour 16 minutes.

I was up early, on the phone, not that Spanner Eyes or Chalkie would appreciate my work. “Hi, Smolinski?” “Yeah thats me.” “You'r chief Air Traffic Controller at Hopkins?” “Yeah, waddayahwant? I'm a busy man.” “Hey, they call you Spinner don't they? Spinner Smolenski. Has a nice ring to it.” I had done my homework. “I take it no one explained about the air race?” “What air race?” “It's a re-creation of one of the early American air races.” “So ?” “The finish line of the race is right at your airport: Hopkins” “Nobody told me.” “Yeah, I realize that and I'm terribly sorry.” Sometimes a Scottish-English accent carries more gravitas. “Spinner, you're treasurer of the C.A.C. aren't you?” It's amazing how much personal information people put on social media. “Yeah, what are you after?” he sounded a little suspicious now, that was good, it meant I had his attention. “By way of sorry we are prepared to make a donation to the CAC” (Cleveland Airtraffic Controllers benevolent fund) “So was that crazy B29 part of your race?” “Sure was Spinner. Beautiful aircraft don't you agree?” get him on our side. Despite what most pilots thought of air traffic controllers most had an interest in aviation. I hoped Smolensky wasn't the exception that proved the rule. “Just about to press the send button on my report to the FAA. Crazy guy landed head on to other traffic.” “That'll be Dangerous Dave. Dangerous by name, Dangerous by nature but one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet. An incredible restoration. Spinner, can you imagine the dedication it takes to keep such a plane airworthy?” “That explains the other crazies coming in here like bats outa hell. I thought it was just a bad week.” “Spinner why don't you join us for the finish party. Have a look at the planes up close.” I hoped I wouldn't regret the invitation. I had found out about his nickname from a local aviation page on Facebook. Apparently Spinner had spun more pilots' careers into the rubbish bin than any controller west of Niagara Falls. “It would be great to see you, someone might even take you up for a spin.” that was an easy one, the Spit only had the one seat. “Oh and one more thing you could do to help us, would it be possible to reserve runway 60C for competitors?.” “Not officially, but hey I like the sound of your party, tell your guys to use the word RACE when they radio in for clearance and we'll direct them to runway 60C.” “Hey, Smolenski you'r one of the good guys. Oh, you might forget to press send. See you at the party! And I am really sorry the organisers forgot to contact you before hand, these races can take some organising. Really nice speaking to you Spinner.” I hung up, washed my face and went down to see how Chalky and Spanner were getting on.

Engines droned on, we were the chase plane that had no chance of keeping up. “Flat as a pancake without syrup.” “Yep” she replied, without looking up from the notes she was studying. “What are you looking at?” I asked. “Looking at the figures from the past two legs. See if there is anything we can do to gain speed.” “Get rid of Chalky? When did he decide he wouldn't use full power?” “Leave him alone and don't call him that, he's only just found his mojo.” “He's lucky he found it before I did, otherwise I would have shoved it so far up..”“Shut it! and don't be so childish” “...It would tickle his tonsils” “Chalky, you've got me at it now, I mean John, has posted the best times so far.” “Only because he has a good plane and Taof, what's his name, the Welsh sounding name, has been magnanimous and adjusted his times. That Sea Fury is clearly the fastest of the bunch.” “Where did you get the Spitfire?” “Provided by Golden Age Aviation Supplies. There's even a simulation model of it available: spitclip14_fs9.zip. Can you believe grown men sit in front of a screen pretending to fly it?” “Not every one is as privileged as you playing with the real thing.” She replied. “Or you, having the chance to work on it and get paid for it.” I quipped back. SILENCE I concentrated on the controls, not much to do, truth be told, autopilot set 8000' heading 075 degrees. It was my turn as pilot in command. “Mississippi ahead.” I broke the silence. We sat together in the bar. So final figures: Time KHLC to KFSW 1 hr. 08 minutes Distance 399 n.m. Average speed 353 kts Start fuel 70% finish fuel 24% We had almost finished our beers. I looked at Chalky then Suzanne then back at Chalky “You are telling me you decided only to use full power some of the time? On full power with the tail wind you were clipping along at 400+ kts then adjusted back to cruise around 370 kts.?” “Yes and proud of it.” he smiled at me. “I'm going to bed. Remind me tomorrow before you depart to explain the concept of racing to you.”

He was not sure what to do. The distraction caused him to forget to lean the mixture. He came to his senses as the Spit slowed to 120 kts. This plane climbed so quickly and the critical leaning was between 5000' and 12,000'. Never mind, he caught it in time, the engine responded picking up speed, he had also instinctively dropped the nose. Next time he'd try to make a smoother climb out and turn to heading. He kept daydreaming of himself in a tux at a Holywood party, beautiful women wanting to be photographed with him. “Get a grip” he told himself. But a grip of what? The sensible thoughtful caring pilot or the winning hero, star of the silver screen? He decided he could use emergency power for a few minutes then fall back to cruise then go back to emergency power., alternating between the two; was that not how emergency power was meant to be used? Cruising not killing Full throttle into Nebraska Crossing the Missouri at cruise and approximate half way. Half way time check. Mississippi ahoi! And diving descent for KFSW Crossing the Mississipi for the second time to line up for Rwy 34 Almost there! Full stop and time check He sat outside with a cold beer. The caring loving Superstar. 1 hour 8 minutes.

Glad you got it sorted.

I dashed out on the apron, the latest weather reports had come through. Suzanne was standing staring up at the Spitfire doing what looked like circuits. “What the … is John up to?” “Being a film star.” “What do you mean?” Suzanne pointed to a group at the end of the runway “The Squitts porridge goons wanted to film the plane taking off.” “Get him down! I've received the latest forecasts. We go now!” “Mike relax, John said he'd do three circuits, the cameraman said that should do it”. The plane landed smoothly and taxied towards us. “I'll fuel him up and he can go.” she added. John slid the canopy back, while Suzanne re-fuelled. John was beaming from ear to ear. “Pay attention Tom Cruise, I've got the latest weather: Simple leg. Climb to 21,000' and full speed to KFSW excellent wind all the way”. “No can do. I think it was JSMR said: “It's not an emergency and it's not war.”So we don't use those settings.” “Fine time you've chosen to grow yourself a social conscience. Suzanne, can you get Tom Cruise here a bicycle, it produces less CO2, he's doing the next two legs on it. And actually it IS a war.” I gave John the most serious stare I could. He stared back vacantly. I continued: “America is at war with obesity. If we, no, if YOU win you will save the lives of tens of thousands of good citizens. If all Americans learn to have a bowl of porridge for breakfast YOU will be a hero!” “Fuel 70%, he's ready to go.” Suzanne announced. He slid the canopy shut while Suzanne and I swung the tail round, that's when I saw it. Stuck to the fuselage: “What the hell is that?” “Oh yes the Squitts logo, we intended to remove it. No time now.” “He's almost full size” I said. “Fine figure of a man” she added. John taxied the Spit to the runway lined up and gunned it. Wheels up time. Thats him off. Let's get the crate loaded and follow.

“Good performance team, excellent time.” we gathered at the motel that John said the Defaid team had recommended. “Next time let Suzanne choose the hotel. I'm not too happy about staying somewhere where people pee in the ice machine.” “Anyway, as I said, good time, but I'm just a little perplexed by the figures. You left Cortez at 14:02 GMT passing over Pueblo at 14:37 GMT some 35 mins later, with an almost perfect tail wind 34 to 48 kts, but it took you a further 38 minutes to cover the Pueblo to Hill City section with a tail wind of 48 to 53 kts. Arriving at 15:15 GMT. Your average speed on the first half was 391 kts, yet with an even more favourable wind over the second half the average speed dropped to 360 kts. What happened?” Suzanne and John had discussed his encounter with the Comet and his subsequent decision to not thrash the engine. Neither had told Mike. Suzanne had almost decided to delete the half way time and tell Mike John had forgotten to record it, but it was not in her nature to be devious. John replied: “The engine was beginning to sound rough, you can only run at maximum for so long, I had to get below the red lines.” “On the next legs don't worry about the engine; Golden Age Aviation Supplies have not one, but two refurbished Griffon engines ready crated to go. Golden freight forwarding have been forward booking space on CargoLux to Denver and Burlington in case we need them.” “That's all very well for you to say, you're not sitting on top of an engine at 20,000' expecting it to seize up any second.” “John you're a worry wart, the Griffon was famous for taking punishment. The only red line you need to worry your pretty little grey head with is the one on the GPS”. “So never mind all that, lets' post our official time for Leg two:” Suzanne did not want John upset. ScottishMike Spitfire XIV Start time (Cortez) 8:02:24 Local (14:02:24 GMT) Arrival Time (Hill City) 10:15:26 Local (15:15:26 GMT) Total time: 1 hour 13 mins. 2 secs. Average speed 374 kts. Start fuel 95% fuel left 44% “Just had a message from Viper, he's arrived but is stuck at the airport.” Suzanne added. “Suzanne, be an angel and go pick him up. Plenty of rooms here. I'll just go and remove the notice from the ice machine "

JGF Your link to the JPG mt st. helen shinden: I think it should show a jpg (or more than one picture) but just shows the string above.

All I can suggest is you move the Split landclass file out of your Landclass folder and enter it in your scenery folder below the SplitAirport as per the installation instructions. The landclass files are best installed individually as they are related to the scenery they came with. If all in the same folder it will be difficult to give them all the correct priority. Let us know how you get on.

JGF that link is shown as broken when I try it.