GBW

That was really helpful as before. I appreciate it is difficult not to talk down to enquirers but doing so ensures that the picture painted is complete. Better to assume nothing!

I have been a lifelong yachtsman so am pretty happy with two dimensional navigation. I grew up in a world of Decca, Loran, Omega, DF radio fixing, DR, buoyage, compass bearing fixing, visual range finding, sextant, and eventually, GPS.

Three dimensional navigation is very similar except that there is a strong incentive to get the third one right! Up to a point, when sailing, you can stop (or at least slow down or hold safe position). I understand that is generally frowned upon in flight.

I wonder how the move towards GPS is viewed in the professional pilots' world. The various yachting forums I subscribe to, carry not infrequent reports of local GPS outages. Not disastrous in sailing (with forewarning and contingencies) but if air radio navaids are discontinued, that could be concerning.

Flying tuition is burdened with a huge list of abbreviations which are, initially, a block on assimilation of new skills. As an old git, that is a bit of a struggle!

The audio warnings are presumably a Boeing thing. Our holiday flights have nearly always been in 737 NGs and the local (static) simulator is based on that (approved for commercial training). That is why my "flying" is with this aircraft. I am fascinated much more by the technology than actually flying.

I believe it was Smiths Industries (my previous employer) who introduced auto land in association with BLEU (WIKI last line refers to SI although the link doesn't work!). The technology was frightening by modern standards. The autopilot used electro-mechanical switches (whose cute name I can't remember) and the "clicking" was both worrying and reassuring!

I'm not aware of any "real life" audio-warning-coupling of the PAPI lights and an airplane cockpit. I suspect you're using some kind of add-on and it's not functioning properly. It doesn't truly matter, but it probably is somewhat annoying to have it there to help you and all it does is complain!

 

Art Burke - N4PJ

Leesburg, FL

The "PULL UP" is presumably flying too low and is a height warning. I thought there would be an awareness in the system that I was approaching a landing. The fact that there is also a "GLIDE SLOPE" warning suggests some confusion.

One of the runways I use starts very close to the water's edge and is significantly higher than the water. In that situation, the radio height is misleading.

I find the PAPI really great although the gentleman with the voice keeps shouting "Pull up, PULL UP,PULL UP" even when I have two reds and two whites!

The same one who wants to ban candles.

Thanks for the response.

I know how to use the GS and the LOC. What intrigued me is that there are two frequencies involved, one for each.

Taken from Wiki;

"Two signals are transmitted on one of 40 ILS channels. One is modulated at 90 Hz, the other at 150 Hz. These are transmitted from co-located antennas. Each antenna transmits a narrow beam.

Localizer (LOC) and glide slope (G/S) carrier frequencies are paired so that the navigation radio automatically tunes the G/S frequency which corresponds to the selected LOC frequency. The LOC signal is in the 110 MHz range while the G/S signal is in the 330 MHz range.[2]

LOC carrier frequencies range between 108.10 MHz and 111.95 MHz (with the 100 kHz first decimal digit always odd, so 108.10, 108.15, 108.30, etc., are LOC frequencies and are not used for any other purpose)."

I set the LOC frequency (either manually on the centre console or in the FMC) but I didn't understand how to set the GS frequency. If there was a direct mathematical relationship between the two, I could understand how the GS signal could be set from the LOC frequency but there isn't. It would be interesting to know where the second frequency is derived from. (I know it doesn't matter but I like to understand.:confused:)

I am still trying to land completely manually using the PAPI and am improving (Honestly - to self).

I am steadily working my way through the learning curve and can occasionally land on or near the runway and sometimes the right way up - however.

737 NG.

I am trying to understand tuning the localiser, glide slope and beacons.

I am flying short hops between EGGD and EGFF generally at half light and it is possible to see each airport from the other following take-off.

When I set the nav radios, I understand the ILS frequency but how do I set the localiser frequency? I have discovered there is not a set relationship between the two frequencies. The glide slope frequency offered in the FMC works effectively and the localiser also (not that I can land using them solely!).

Then there are the beacons. Where do or can I set the VOR frequencies?

No, they are each different routes points.

I thought I understood!

Routes between (e.g.) Brecon and Bristol are listed as BCN1X AND BCN1Z.

Same origin, same destination.

I'm learning!

I have programmed a route from Bristol international (UK) to Manchester.

EGGD - EGCC

I chose a departure from Bristol on runway 27.

I am presented with

BADI1X

BCN1X

EXMO1X

Before choosing the runway, I have the following options;-

BADI1X

BCN1X

BCN1Z

EXMO1X

EXMO1Z and

WOTA1Z

I believe BCN is Brecon but what is the significance of the suffix - 1X.

All help gratefully received.

Another good source was

Thanks for the steer. I had already scoured that but it is not complete. What I seek is exhaustive information at the Noddy level with pointers to all the features and appended details.

It is embarrassing to reveal that I once worked for a company (Smith's Industries, now GE) who produced these and the FMC. My excuse is that my involvement was on naval equipment and at the time, I had no interest in aeroplanes. Having had a dabble in a 737 simulator, I fancy another and wishing to be more prepared, I have bought X-Plane.

By accident, I have just come across a U-tube video by "Subsonic Flight Training". It looks promising.

Can anyone point me to a complete description of all the symbols and their meaning on the Boeing 737 NG flight deck please.

Thanks in advance.

On skyvector.com you can paste these routes into the flightplan and have them show up on the map.

 

You can often guess what a waypoint is by its length.

Three letter: VORs and NDBs

Four letter: Airport

Five letters: Intersections

 

Often the route will not list every single waypoint but shorten it to a continuous piece of an airway.

These will be things with one or two letters and a number.

 

At the beginning and end of a route there may be a STAR or SID.

These will be named after the airport or navaid that they are linked to and will end with some kind of identifier (...1C, ...2Y)

 

Also look for (pdf) charts for your departure and destination.

These will contain the SIDs, STARs and approach procedures for the airport.

 

For example: EGGD - LFMP

EXMO1Z EXMOR N864 BHD N862 SKESO UN90 BASIK UN26 KORER UM616 USODA UM184 CNA UN863 SECHE UT24 GAI G36 ORBIL ORBIL2

 

After takeoff from EGGD fly the EXMO1Z SID, which will bring you to the EXMOR intersection.

Then you follow the N864 airway until the VOR BHD.

There you turn onto airway N862 until intersection SKESO.

... airway UN90 untill BASIK

... airway UN26 untill KORER

... airway UM616 untill USODA

... airway UM184 untill CNA

... airway UN863 untill SECHE

... airway UT24 untill GAI

... airway G36 untill ORBIL

Then you fly the STAR ORBIL2 which will take you to an initial approach fix for one LFMP's approaches.

That is brilliant - thanks.

The reference to airways is a huge step forwards. I was beginning to suspect something like that.

I did find a SID for Birmingham but by accident!

I have looked at Skyvector but didn't find a SID. I've just tried again and discovered (it wasn't exactly hidden!) the link to the IFR chart.

Once again, thank you very much - huge step forward.

There is a local (fixed) Boeing 737-800 NG simulator at Gloucester (ex Staverton) airport. I have had one "flight" in the past but I was ill prepared. I intend next visit will be more rewarding.

Google SIDS and STARS. You'll find much to learn.

Standard Instrument Departures and Standard Terminal Arrivals are, like, standard these days...

As I said, I did that. It took me a while to discover the meaning of SIDS AND STARS, but what I asked for was the significance of the route constituents. I was further confused, when the FMS suggested route did not bear much resemblance to the Simbrief route.

However, the next reply looks very helpful.

It is more embarrassing recalling that I worked for Smiths Industries who produce the FMC (under a different trading name) for the B737.

)However, my involvement was with naval projects!).

Please don't laugh!

Boeing 737-800 NG. I understand most of the X-Plane cockpit, and can get airborne (but not land!).

However, I am struggling with the FMC. Simbrief gives me a series of entries on a route but I don't understand them. If I fly from Birmingham UK, EGBB to Bristol UK EGGD which is a short hop, one of the suggested routes is

CPT2Y CPT BRI1C

Another is

DTY2Y DTYM605 SILVA M183 CPT BRI1C.

A more ambitious flight is from Bristol UK EGGD to Perpignan France LFMP.

EXMO1Z EXMOR N864 BHD N862 SKESO UN90 BASIK UN26 KORER UM616 USODA UM184 CNA UN863 SECHE UT24 GAI G36 ORBIL ORBIL2

I assumed that these designations referred to waypoints and I can find one or two on waypoint charts but other entries have me baffled.

Anyone help please? Google could not.