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Thread: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

  1. #1

    Default RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    Just for the ante:
    F-117a, B-2 Spirit, and those are the old public birds there are others we don't know about yet. Not to mention the Saturn V and the Shuttle, no one matched them except the Soviets.
    Those are my raises, the Saturn V and the Shuttle.
    Doubters of NASA put themselves in the position of trying to prove a negative. Just a little difficult to do.
    Hap

  2. #2
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    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    Trying to say that the USA puts out the best jets?

    Well sure, but there is some extraordinary competition.

    The Eurofighter is phenominal. The Panavia Tornado is an excellent jet. The BAe Hawk is one of the most popular trainers on the planet. The Sukhoi 27 to 35 line of fighters will match anything up to an F/A-22. The MiG-29 could eat an F-16 for lunch.

    As for space, France's Ariane (sp?) rockets put up a lot of payloads. Canada has provided invaluable technology in the Canadarm and Canadarm II in the ISS. The Russians have built space stations and have set endurance records the Americans can only dream about. The Soyez capsule remains in use today.

    I'm sure other people can come up with stuff, too.

    EDIT: A negative in the Saturn V and the Shuttle? Well, the Saturn V remains the most powerful launch vehicle ever made, but it's no longer in use.

    The Shuttle is amazing. Hands down. People that call it a failure don't know what the hell they're talking about. However, they have lost two and no more will be built. I'm all for retrofitting Enterprise to get her spaceworthy as a Columbia replacement. Hope she's back in the sky soon!

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    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    Nothing out there can match the active duty F/A-22, F-117, and B-2.

    Nothing matched the SR-71.

    And with 20 or so carriers, we can bring all of our toys to anyone who wants to play ;)


    EDIT: And it depends on which variant of F-16 is flying against which variant of the Mig-29. It could go both ways, but only in the hands of well trained pilots. If you got a noob in the Mig-29/F-16 he surely will get his.


    http://www.fsuniverse.com/meyer/abov.../meyer_sig.jpg

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    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    What you say may be true, but tell me did the Russians, French, Canadians,and the rest build,make,or think about a $50.flight sim??Or do they all still use the swivel chair and a broomstick?Imagine what a flight sim would have been like in the "Cold war days"in the soviet union countries. Can you picture North Korea with a public flight sim program?Wonder what kind of forums they would tolerate?When they "LOCK DOWN",its you,and they throw the key away.It is true the shuttle is amazing. It is also true "THE BEST IS YET TO COME",in the USA,but of course. " Regards to ya " VIN :-wave

  5. #5

    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    was the purpose of this thread just to start an argument or what? sure, i'd say i'm patriotic and the good ol' usa has some kickin air force... but jeez... i'm not gonna go throw it in people's faces just for the heck of it... oh well... enjoy! :)

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    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    Hummm...MiG vs F-16. In real combat around the world, the MiG really comes out second best. We won't even mention the F-15s record.

    How much actual time has the Eurofighter spent on duty and in combat. Fancy airshow manuvers are nice, but let's see what happens when the action gets hot.

    Let's hear it for the B-52. Overlooked is the E-3. Between it and the JSTAR, the enemy can't go to the latrine without being observed.

    The Soviet Union tried to build a shuttle and then stopped for reasons only known to themselves otherwise the Soyuz would be right next the Apollo in the museums.

    It would cost more to rebuild the Enterprise to be spaceworthy than to open the line and make a new one. She lacks the electrical and plumbing among other things to be able to fly in space. There is still the problem of tile breakage on the shuttles.

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    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    I think you've hit it on the head! But, I'll let it ride for a little bit and take it one post at a time and see where it goes.

    Darrell

  8. #8

    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    Jstars! SR-71, F-22! Oh baby!
    And those odd looking craft that low passed a lake I was fishing on one morning, I only wonder - - for now. Maybe in another decade that craft will be public, as the F-117 was made public.
    Start an argument? No not me.
    Why would pride in American aerospace start an argument?
    Just truth.
    It really wasn't a thing about a Falcon would kill a MIG,or an Me-262 taking out a Tbolt, more a statement about the steps to UNEQUALED ability.
    But I feel better knowing the USAF doesn't sleep.
    And that comes from a former Gyrene.
    BUT I will never make light of Soviet aerospace!!! Or anyone else's.
    Who did it first in space? Yuri Gagarin and in orbit at that.
    No to me the accomplishments of others are to be acknowledged too.
    Like Mir, long before our own like endeavors.
    Why can't some people remember Apollo-Soyuz. The idea of not a competition but a co-operative effort.
    In an ideal world the US and USSR would have gone to the moon together as was proposed by Jack Kennedy before he was murdered.
    That wasn't to be. Kind of sadly so.
    The spirit of "us/them" is only going to stop the best efforts of all people. To me there is room to be proud without being disdainful of others. Unlike some here.
    No, I honor all the people of aerospace that deserve it no matter the place of residence.
    Nor do I make much of the presently grounded shuttles, it is a redux that has been needed for a while.
    It'll fly again and I bet the line won't end with the 1970s technology as the shuttle is. We won't quit, it's not in our nature or culture.
    Space isn't easy and safe, nor is flying inside the atmosphere, ##### happens.
    Sometimes tragicly so. No less loss for ones of any nation more than another.
    But I bet the Stars and Stripes will fly on Mars first too.
    I am not detracting from any other nations pride in accomplishments, neither am I less than proud of the history of American aerospace.
    Just consider, while "science" was mired in bad math, the Wright's were from scratch rewriting the formulae and they flew based on their own revised real corrected science. In the face of the university approved versions of the science.
    I don't have to "put down" another nation's deeds to be proud of America's aviation and aerospace do I? No I don't.
    Consider the SR-71, it took an advance in satelite technology to outdate that bird. Unequaled, publicly any way, to this day. And that is 1950s - 1960s technology. It needed no armament just because it was BAD! Too fast to shoot. Stunning if you stop to consider it. Outrunning the ordinance?! Sheesh!
    That's a new kind of fast.
    Just how fast did it really fly?
    I'll likely never know. Just really freaking fast.
    Oh and for the Big Ugly Fat Fellows [cleaned up version]: will the B-52s ever be retired?
    The last "projection" I heard was that they would be still deployed at age 70, i.e 2020. That takes some kind of fire-suppression to keep them able to fill the role. Not too bad for a nuke bomber designed for payload and range from the late 1940s.
    Jack Northrop was right about the wing though, it just took a while for the capability to catch up with the vision of genius.
    For the newer aircraft, it's called air superiority. Unquestioned and unequaled.
    Now with proven facts like these, why would I doubt the American footprints on the moon, put there by a civilian in the spirit of doing it for all mankind?
    The plaque on the LEM reads "We came in peace for all mankind. July 1969."
    I grant others the right to be proud of their own nation's accomplishments in aviation or aerospace and I reserve the right to be proud of what we have done too.
    HA

  9. #9

    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    "The quality of the crate matters little. Success depends on the man sitting in it." Manfred von Richthofen

    Brad

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    Default RE: RED WHITE AND BLUE Aviation SECOND TO NONE

    You want a good read on WHO KILLED THE RED BARON? Check this out

    http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/richt.htm

    Pretty cool stuff, so much for the Red Baron, SPLAT!

    His pizza however is good, I have one of his baseball hats, and some Red Baron Pizza pins!

    http://www.fsuniverse.com/meyer/abov.../meyer_sig.jpg

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