FMC Honeywell VREF?

Hello, I'm just wondering if anyone has the Honeywell FMC on any of their aircraft in FSX. If so do you know if its possible to calculate landing speed on there? I've been looking desperately and I can't see where to do it if you can.

If you can't does anyone know any website where you can calculate your landing speed?

Many thanks

Know it’s old but I have found that the last entry of the “legs” shows the speed going to the destination. I have seen 170 for instance, when using the 737.  So, I imagine you slow up from that on finals.

On 3/25/2022 at 5:46 PM, ScottBotham said:

calculate landing speed

Do you mean "input" the approach speed? Not sure of exactly what you are asking. Thx.

It’s said this is a basic FMC, in any event, not knowing much about them, I have managed to use this one from take off to when I get near the destination .

Dont  know about sids and stars enough to  know even if they can be used with this FMC. ( can’t find a tutorial about this FMC- there is one attempt, but not clear to me).

So, I cheat slightly… ask destination for permission to land , then I use the GPS 500 to approach and land ()

If anyone knows of a clear tutorial, I’d be obliged for a pointer!

I found these :

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=FSX+basic+Honeywell+FMC+tutorial&t=opera&ia=web

Perhaps it's of some help

On 2/14/2023 at 12:30 PM, Cas141 said:

So, I cheat slightly

Using any system at your disposal is Never cheating! It's good single pilot resource management.

Thanks very much for your comments chaps. Interestingly, one of the threads from Flyaway back in the FS9 days, had comments from real life pilots who made the point that ATC and FMC weren’t always in sync and that ATC was to be complied with when at the destination approach. FMC would get you to that area , but then you went to “Heading” and obeyed the ATC talk down. 
That seems to be ignoring STARS?  Though what I know about STARS you can write on a stamp. ( I’ve never used  them, don’t know how)

The tutorial on YouTube by a chap whose first language isn’t English, doesn’t help me much. Can’t really follow it.

Might finish up taking off on ATC, then going FMC, then approach and land on ATC.

(Phrogflyer has given me permission ….Thanks mate)

cheers

3 hours ago, Cas141 said:

Phrogflyer has given me permission ….Thanks mate

My pleasure! Keep in mind that SIDs and STARs are just as their names state "Standard." As more aircraft have certified GPS based systems. ATC Centers will have a greater ability to direct aircraft with nearly point to point routing. Also, the whole ATC system is designed to work with NO RADIOS. Should you lose communications, these Standard routes, feed aircraft to published instrument approaches. Position reports are given with ATC handoffs (a whole class in and of itself), timing of your arrival. I have seen pilots get to countries where ATC is not as updated as in Nth America, and have difficulties with simple things like getting weather (as they are handed the teletype pages) or submitting hand written flight plans, etc. I recommend less (or no) digital instruments when learning instrument flying (RL and FS). Once you have a solid basis in instrument flying, then move to various GPSs and EFIS systems. You will then have a solid understanding and great appreciation for the flexibility these systems offer the pilot.

3 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Also, the whole ATC system is designed to work with NO RADIOS. Should you lose communications, these Standard routes, feed aircraft to published instrument approaches.

True. But your first sentence here is even more important than the second, since you are issued clearances which, combined with specific FARs, will give you a loss of communications course (including the approach) right to the landing, using your flight plan filing, plus clearances, plus estimated time to destination such that ATC will be sure that your path is clear if you lose contact, if you follow the rules -- they will. There's more of course, but even this is probably beyond what most simmers need -- just thought I'd clarify that it's not just the Standard routes that do that, though they are specific clearances.

3 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

I recommend less (or no) digital instruments when learning instrument flying (RL and FS). Once you have a solid basis in instrument flying, then move to various GPSs and EFIS systems. You will then have a solid understanding and great appreciation for the flexibility these systems offer the pilot.

I concur wholeheartedly. Start with basics and move to more complex after mastering the basics. In addition it gives you a better chance of being able to handle loss of some equipment or certain other problems should they occur. There's a reason that the FARs generally require a minimum of 40 hours of flight training (plus a lot of ground school) for a licensed pilot to get an instrument rating -- there's a lot to learn.

7 hours ago, Cas141 said:

That seems to be ignoring STARS?

Nope- STARs are only used as assigned by ATC, so that, when used, they constitute a portion of your ATC clearance. Though STARs are routinely used with the big iron, it's not uncommon for light aircraft to not use the STARs, though many do -- some may not even be equipped to follow them, given that you can file IFR (with the rating, of course) with a bare minimum of equipment, that could be just a communications radio and a VOR receiver, depending on where you're going from and to and your enroute path.

14 minutes ago, lnuss said:

if you follow the rules -- they will

Glad that on a whole this isn't an issue. Hate to think of rouge pilots in the air, especially in the IFR environment. 

And thanks for the good follow up Larry.

There is so much that flight simming offers, a little guidance goes a long way.

On 2/25/2023 at 5:02 PM, lnuss said:

 

 

Nope- STARs are only used as assigned by ATC, so that, when used, they constitute a portion of your ATC clearance. Though STARs are routinely used with the big iron, it's not uncommon for light aircraft to not use the STARs, though many do -- some may not even be equipped to follow them, given that you can file IFR (with the rating, of course) with a bare minimum of equipment, that could be just a communications radio and a VOR receiver, depending on where you're going from and to and your enroute path.

sorry for the delay, been trying to use STARS in the Honeywell FMC.

Somehow, on one occasion, I managed to load one and fly down on it.

Can’t repeat the program of it. (Too damn old!)

Not quite sure how STARS comes into it , if you are flying IFR and being talked down by ATC, why do you use STARS?
I can fly the Honeywell to the destination but I don’t know when to input the STARS into the FMC, ( surely I have to be near the destination to know which runway the ATC wants me to use?)..or exactly how to program it into the FMC.

Does anyone know where there is a tutorial (simple steps) on how to do the latter,please?

Little knowledge IS dangerous, isn’t it?

cheers

14 minutes ago, Cas141 said:

Not quite sure how STARS comes into it , if you are flying IFR and being talked down by ATC, why do you use STARS?

Except in rare circumstances you are not being "talked down" by ATC. Instead, ATC gives you clearances based on your flight plan and on the traffic and weather situation, along with the way you and your aircraft are equipped. So STARs are given you as a clearance for you to follow all by yourself, as published, and the purpose is basically twofold.

1. Since it is a STANDARD route, and is published, it saves ATC a lot of time and effort in directing you from the initial point on the STAR to the assigned approach, thus they don't talk you through it.
2. It lets you study that standard route while you're on the ground before you ever depart, and it saves you writing down a potentially complex routing, in addition to the reduced radio use (leaving more air time for other traffic) and to the reduced distraction to you in attempting to listen to and write down that clearance.

I can't help you with the FMC, however, since I've never used one, either in real life or in a sim. You are finding out why there is a huge amount of training involved in flying IFR, and even more so in the big iron.

Excellent explanation in the preceding Larry.

One thing I take away from reading this thread and other similar forum threads with questions regarding system usage, is that for many of the non RL pilots there is a lack of understanding of the overall ATC system (airspace, rules, procedures), not enough basic hands-on flying (stick and rudder), and an overdependence on the autopilot. Add to this the desire to fly the biggest and most sophisticated aircraft and it is a recipe for confusion.

Might I offer some advice, as I did to my students when I was instructing, 1) learn to hands-on  FLY first (keep it simple, C-150, C-172, PA-28, etc). 2) learn the basics of flying by reference to instruments (round gauges, low alt. routing, VORs, ILS), then 3) flying with GPS (approaches, EFIS, MFD, high-alt routing, SIDs, STARs,). 

A solid understanding of the basics along the way will allow for a better understanding and appreciation of the next step.

Thank you Inuss. Ref #2, obviously programming before departure depends on the wind remaining roughly the same direction!

As I found out, the one time I got a STARS loaded into Honeywell FMC, I enjoyed the experience. Blowed if I could recall how I did it, despite  several attempts since.

For a free FMC it is pretty good, to be fair,but nevertheless, frustrating!

As an aside, I would buy a PMDG or nxg  737, if they were available, and learn their FMC. However, I fly offline, so I anticipate an activation issue, even if the products were available.

I do appreciate that advices I am getting here, clearly some of my concepts are erroneous, but I quite enjoy being enlightened

.

10 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Excellent explanation in the preceding Larry.

 

One thing I take away from reading this thread and other similar forum threads with questions regarding system usage, is that for many of the non RL pilots there is a lack of understanding of the overall ATC system (airspace, rules, procedures), not enough basic hands-on flying (stick and rudder), and an overdependence on the autopilot. Add to this the desire to fly the biggest and most sophisticated aircraft and it is a recipe for confusion.

 

Might I offer some advice, as I did to my students when I was instructing, 1) learn to hands-on  FLY first (keep it simple, C-150, C-172, PA-28, etc). 2) learn the basics of flying by reference to instruments (round gauges, low alt. routing, VORs, ILS), then 3) flying with GPS (approaches, EFIS, MFD, high-alt routing, SIDs, STARs,). 

 

A solid understanding of the basics along the way will allow for a better understanding and appreciation of the next step.

Hi, Phrog,

Whilst what you say is correct, completely so if I were trying to be a real life pilot, perhaps you could give a little slack in that , a) these sims are meant to be fun , b) some of us haven’t got the time left to go the long route so thoroughly-( wrong side of eighty). And finally, I’ve flown reasonably well the Cessna using VORS, through the DC4 Sperry and I’ve got my head round the Mooney glass cockpit.

Just having a go at the airliners ( they do sound so good),and so would like to make a reasonable go at STARS in FSX.

Only place I can learn about the flightsim  SIDS and STARS is on forums like this

I appreciate that the ATC isn’t like the real thing unless I go all out re VATSIM etc.

But all I’m asking  for really is a little education re the flight sim and especially the Honeywell FMC , of which I’ve managed about 70% of its capabilities , I think.

33 minutes ago, Cas141 said:

all I’m asking  for really is a little education re the flight sim and especially the Honeywell FMC

35 minutes ago, Cas141 said:

give a little slack in that , a) these sims are meant to be fun

Cas.

You've now got me intrigued. I just downloaded the Honeywell FNC for FSX and will give it a try latter today. Here is a YouTube I found that looks promising, which may or may not be useful since you've already been using this for a while. 

Also, my comments were not meant to downplay anything anyone is doing here, I always say the same, remember to have fun. I was attempting to state the sim flying and real flying are very similar, especially in the basis of knowledge needed to advance in skills and complexity,

And please feel free to reach out to me, Larry or any of us at any time. Our intentions are the same, to help everyone do their best here and again, Have Fun!

Thanks for the YouTube vid Phrog, actually it is the one I refer to in my Feb 25 th 

post. Didn’t find it helpful. I know English isn’t his first language but even so, he doesn’t show you how to do something so well. He gets an arrival chosen, clicks on ‘activate’ and then doesn’t conclude how it finalises, to then show you the pages and how the arrivals is placed within those pages.

oh well, will plug on

cheers

Quote

perhaps you could give a little slack in that

I don't think he was chastising you, rather he was explaining what can help even the most experienced simmer to improve his ability in the sim, not saying that you must take real life ATP training.

But have you checked out the various tutorial videos by thecorporatepilotdad?

https://www.flightsim.com/tags/thecorporatepilotdad/

He's done a great job of explaining a LOT of things about flying, from S-turns across a road to the various pieces of IFR flight, including how to shoot various approaches, and much more. Though a little fast paced (easy to rewind though) he's very thorough and explanations are clear, with well thought out graphics as well as good explanations.

Let me start with thank you Cas! Without your question I would not have known this excellent add on was available.

I added the FMC to the FSX King Air (my go to aircraft to test/compare things with 1000+ real hours in type).

The FMC worked exactly as the pdf directions suggested. I will be adding this to all of my most used aircraft.

And now to Scott's initial question...

On 3/25/2022 at 5:46 PM, ScottBotham said:

I'm just wondering if anyone has the Honeywell FMC on any of their aircraft in FSX. If so do you know if its possible to calculate landing speed on there? I've been looking desperately and I can't see where to do it if you can.

In short, no the FMC does not calculate landing speed. I'm not sure if other systems do so either. 

I calculate landing speeds using the aircraft specific reference manuals.

I found it interesting that the vnav speed on the FMC for the last leg of the flight plan route is the "over the fence" speed I used in the actual King Air.

See below screen shots:

1. FMC Route Page,

2. Diagram (annotated) from King Air training manual with speeds for each phase of the approach. 

3. Excerpt from POH for landing procedure.

I hope this is helpful.

Hi, Phrog. Glad you like it, and from a selfish POV, I’m glad you are using it,.

im fine with programming airfield to airfield,say, KPHIL TO KORD.

on the ACT RTE leg the last thing I see is KORD.

Now, if I press the ArrDep button I can choose an arrival runway and then from that, an approach. 
I can load or activate. But that just adds further pages , it doesn’t ’Insert’ these approach pages before KORD, ( as my logic would expect )

What seems to happen, recently discovered , is that as I fly the plan and when I get to fly the last leg towards KORD, it is then that I can activate the ARRivals pages, and the aircraft responds. I think that’s how I did it, need to try a few more flights to see it wasn’t just a fluke,!

Thinking about it, it seems logical to me in that flying VFR I ask KORD for permission to land . They then direct me as to which runway to use, so I then choose the right one on the ARRivals buttons. 

(If I chose beforehand before take off, then that may be the wrong runway when I get there!  - wind change)

I tried using this Honeywell on IFR flight plan in FSX but they don’t seem to be in sync?

Surely, in RL they should/would be ?
of course, I’m probably not programming it right, but I do believe as an FMC it is reported to have its limitations.

I’ll be very interested in your verdict on it.

cheers

Further re using the  Honeywell. I now seem to have got it as good as I can.

I can start off with an IFR flight plan loaded into FSX. Then I programme the Honeywell with cruise height as in the F Plan.

when I take off using IFR, the ATC instructions when followed eventually get to marry up with the Honeywell route.

However, if I follow the ATC instructions right through to the landing , the Honeywell and ATC don’t keep in sync ( if I can put it like that.)

So, what I do is follow the Honeywell cruise legs, and during those, I leave the ATC IFR .

and go to “flight following”

As the Honeywell route is continued to be followed, I get to around 30 miles from the destination and then, using the ATC menu, I ask for the nearest airfield list to come up. In that list I find the destination airport and ask it for permission for full stop landing.

I get permission and I’m given instructions on which runway to land .

Then, back to the Honeywell , I press the Arr button and , selecting the appropriate runway button, I press the Vectors or approach button, and then # activate it.

Going back to the Legs pages, you will see one or two legs have been  added since the original flight plan was made.

These last two pages are the STARS , and the “caret” shows to which waypoint the plane is now headed. (This caret moved from the original pages when the # activate button was pressed )

The map then shows the progress towards lining up on the runway……

When on the last leg, I change from GPS to Nav, then press APR to then go down the glide slope.

Hope that helps those who are not familiar with this FMC, and apologies to those to whom this is telling them how to suck eggs