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Thread: Anyone see this near disaster skydiving Kingair C90 spin video?

  1. #1
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    Default Anyone see this near disaster skydiving Kingair C90 spin video?

    Lots of interesting comments on Youtube including from at least one skydiver who never left the plane....wow.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XMESBk0dJw

  2. #2

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    Very interesting. Since I don't care for much of the media at all anymore, I wasn't aware. I don't use social media either outside of YouTube. It's all over the main news networks though. At first I was a little skeptical because of the technology these days to manipulate video, photos and audio, so I did my research and the first place I went to was the South African Civil Aviation Authority to find an incident report. Well, I found none anywhere. Maybe I'm not looking in the right spot or it isn't there. According to the YouTube video you posted, the description said an incident report had been filed. So I moved on and Google has loads of media outlets reporting on it, but I don't trust the news so moved on to The Professional Pilot Rumors Network. LOL Seriously, a lot of people there are in the industry and what have you and it's a large community. So I knew if it was BS surly they'd say so. And I've been to that forum in the past a number of times. Well, I got more than I thought I would in that it looks like this may be an almost common phenomena. Or at least it's happened many times before.

    https://www.pprune.org/accidents-clo...pare-jump.html


    http://www.caa.co.za/pages/accidents...t-reports.aspx
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for posting that link to the forum, Aaron. It brought out details that, in retrospect, make a great deal of sense, though since I've never flown jumpers I hadn't considered, but weight and balance, unusual drag, etc. combined with slow flight can, indeed, be a serious problem.

    Back when I was towing gliders, shortly after takeoff one student on solo got a bit too high (relative to the tow plane) and started pulling my tail up (Cessna 180), so after a short time of starting an unwanted descent I had to pull the tow rope release to avoid a potentially disastrous descent. Fortunately he waited to do this until we were high enough that he could make it back to the runway safely, though the margin wasn't great.

    So yes, when you are doing unusual things with airplanes, there can be things beyond your control that get a bit hairy.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  4. #4

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    Did you tow gliders in Boulder? I guess there's a lot of that there, and I've seen it using my SDR, a tablet and an App who's name escapes me now. I was monitoring the 978 MHz mode C squawk code instead of the 1090 MHz mode S version.

    At the recent airshow here at KFNL, I saw some of the aircraft use 978 MHz. I think it was mode S where I clocked the Talon something or other at around ~500 MPH. LOL

    Why don't they just design purpose built aircraft for jumpers right out the back? Understanding of course it looks like all the jumpers have to be ready at the same.

    My little cousin did a tandem jump. I don't think I could do that because of a memory I have back at Knott's Berry Farm. At the time (and maybe it's still there today) they have/had this parachute ride. It's a giant, tall looking thing with a bunch of platform-like things you stand in and at the top is a simulated parachute and the platforms are connected via cable like an elevator. All of these platforms with their fake parachutes at the top go up about 50 to 100 feet ( I have no idea, but you can see all over Anaheim, California). Once at the top you free fall. Well, I felt like my stomach was still at the top and I did not like that one bit. LOL So because of that, I can only imagine what kind of massive rush you'd have jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft. LOL

    I can't even imagine special operators who do HALO jumps. Talk about training. One slip up and you bounce off the ground...

    Here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Ved5n4YaM God, it doesn't even go that fast. LOL Perhaps today I'd be a little different. Last time I went on that ride I was about 10. Today I'm 41. HAHA
    Last edited by CRJ_simpilot; 12-08-2021 at 07:29 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Did you tow gliders in Boulder?
    Nope. It was in Albuquerque at Coronado Airport (4AC) back in the mid-1970s. That's me in the red hat. We only used that Stearman a handful of times, partly because of performance and partly because it was more expensive to tow with than the C-180 we normally used, which you can see in the bottom picture, where you also see our PA-11, SGS2-32 and SGS2-33 sailplanes.

    Why don't they just design purpose built aircraft for jumpers right out the back?
    They do -- the C-123 and C-130 come to mind, though they weren't designed specifically for jumpers. They were more aimed at air drop cargo. Of course those are military and too expensive for most civilian jump use.

    As to why they don't do a much lighter, smaller, less expensive machine for jumpers, weight and balance difficulties, too small a market, and limited other uses for that aircraft. Note that most aircraft (other than sometimes a four or six place single) that are used for jumpers (King Air, Twin Otter, etc.) are used for other things when not dropping jumpers. Their primary use, in fact, is for other missions. After all, those are multi-million dollar aircraft -- even a new Bonanza these days is a million bucks or more.

    You might note that the C-180 we towed with, in addition to towing, was used as a backup aircraft for a parachute jump operation and, occasionally, as a personal travel machine by the owner. As for our operation, we sometimes used it for banner towing, too, especially out of town (Santa Fe, Gallup, etc.), although we normally used the Stearman when we towed banners locally, due to the improved attention it got from the ground (besides, it was more fun).
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    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  6. #6

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    HAHA You have to appreciate the times back then when most people had a cigarette in their hand. Even in a restaurant or at work to name just a few places. My have times changed. I was born in 1980 however, but it was still around in large part. Damn good decade if you ask me, though my parents say the '70s were pretty decent and I guess 1969 was one hell of a year! Woodstock and the Moon landing! No wonder Bryan Adams sung a song about the year.

    I sometimes fly to Albuquerque in the Sim. Usually I'll fly out of KFNL and head West to KSLC, then Vegas, Phoenix, Albuquerque and back up to Colorado. Besides that short route, I've been all around the world some five or six times now. Lost count.

    You're right about the price of aircraft. I just checked a listing for a King Air C90GTx, "price reduced" at 3.6 million. I had no idea they went for that much. I figured a few hundred thousand at best. HAHAHA I do know those modern day gauges are mighty pricey. Can't even imagine what maintenance cost for an aircraft of that type cost. They say Harrison Ford acts to fly. I believe it! LOL Very expensive. And I'm sure the required insurance isn't too cheap either.

    If I could fly "real" aircraft I'd like to have a King Air. Due to current FAR restrictions and my medical situation, I can only fly experimentals. But there are some cool experimentals out there!

    Yeah, totally knew about the C-130. I believe they landed one on an aircraft carrier, or still do. I don't know.

    The C-180 looks like a pretty cool aircraft. You can add floats to it and can bush fly as well. I guess a C-180 would be perfect for Alaska.

    Unreal that is was manufactured when my mom was born. https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N3128D

    Interesting. Looks like 4AC is exactly a mile high according to this website.
    Last edited by CRJ_simpilot; 12-13-2021 at 06:49 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Interesting. Looks like 4AC is exactly a mile high according to this website.
    The official field elevation at Coronado was 5270, not off by much. The numbers of 21 were a bit higher, and the dirt overrun at its approach end was where we tied the gliders down, and where we started every tow. It was a gentle downhill on takeoff.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  8. #8

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    I always found it interesting that runways had a gradient. Now mind you I'm not an engineer for airport layouts or even for city roads and what have you, but you'd think in this day and age with laser/GPS surveying and what have you the gradients for runways would be off by no more than 2% or less I suppose. (Maybe less than 2%. I'd have to pull up some plates).

    So do you know if it's because we are simply not as advanced as the ancient Egyptians (:P), or it's just a cost factor or something? Perhaps there's no factor? I mean, a great factor. I've read that pilots like the gradient for certain purposes. Going down hill of course allows for a quicker take off, which I can only imagine would be welcomed in low density altitude. The other for when you're coming in hot and need to slow down as quickly as possible.

    P.S.

    Actually, I'm now remembering what an archeologist friend of mine told me. When they did surveying they were purvey to better GPS positioning than civilian use. Have to due to the scientific nature of where things are found and what have you. So having said that, it's certainly possible to get pretty damn precise if need be. Realizing of course that this may not be needed for an airport at all. Just seems like it would be though.
    Last edited by CRJ_simpilot; 12-15-2021 at 05:29 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRJ_simpilot View Post
    So do you know if it's because we are simply not as advanced as the ancient Egyptians (:P), or it's just a cost factor or something? Perhaps there's no factor? I mean, a great factor. I've read that pilots like the gradient for certain purposes. Going down hill of course allows for a quicker take off, which I can only imagine would be welcomed in low density altitude. The other for when you're coming in hot and need to slow down as quickly as possible.
    What would be the benefit of expending the extra effort? It would be expensive to build and then maintain as the ground shifts over time, especially with longer runways and in places where the ground freezes in the winter.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by loki View Post
    What would be the benefit of expending the extra effort? It would be expensive to build and then maintain as the ground shifts over time, especially with longer runways and in places where the ground freezes in the winter.
    Pilots- REAL pilots - don't care if a runway is flat. They just factor the slope into their take off and landing calculations.
    If a runway is pro-slope in one direction it is against the slope in any other. Wind direction and velocity is more variable and FAR more important.

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