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Thread: Landing problems STILL! after seventeen years.

  1. #1

    Default Landing problems STILL! after seventeen years.

    Hello All

    I have been flying FS9 for seventeen years now.
    I am ashamed to say after all this time and Gawd knows how many flights, I still can't land on the centerline.
    I have all the right approach conditions, flaps correct, App engaged correct speed, etc etc. but no blinking cigar.
    At a few miles out, everything looks fine, heading right at the centre line but as I get closer to touch down the ground approx. fifty feet to landing I invariably find myself slowly veering off course, and have to try and inelegantly pull on the stick to at least get some sort of landing where no one would have died.

    PS
    I fly ninety-five/six per cent airliners by the way.
    I am beginning to wonder whether there is some psychology going on here perhaps I will lose interest in the sim if I finally crack the landing?
    Actually, I don't really believe that. In fact a load of old cobblers; But! every flight I take is really about the landing, although I still enjoy all the other aspects of flight.
    I know there are many variables to consider in a landing, but any info you may have would be appreciated.


    Thank Andy

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Manchester UK
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    3,358

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    Joined your club, I'm a lousy pilot, I tried that 'Autoland' thingy a while ago, it kind of worked but I probably wasn't doing it right.

    I got the AirHauler program and started flying the routes in the Cessna, I got not too bad at the landing, some bumpy ones but I made it. I was going to say instead of the airliners try something slower and smaller.

    Funny though I was watching one of those air crash investigation videos and on one of them there was an airline pilot who always used the autopilot to land, turned out he wasn't that good a pilot and course on this video he crashed. So in real life there are some like us, scary when you think about it.

    Col.

  3. #3

    Default

    Use the system we real pilots use:
    Don't aim for the runway; aim instead for the END of the runway and ensure the `sight picture` is parallel with both front and rear aligned in the FOV.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Westminster, CO
    Posts
    7,580

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    Your description sounds as if you may be looking too close to the aircraft in the last bit of a landing, when you should be looking at the far end of the runway, and perhaps you are relaxing instead of flying the airplane until it comes to a stop. And maybe you're actually trying to LAND the airplane instead of getting it a foot or two off of the ground and holding it there with power at idle.

    However perhaps you are weak on the fundamentals, so I have to ask:

    How much of your flying is done manually rather than using the autopilot (it DOES take practice)? Have you tried going back to basics and starting with a Cessna, working through lessons, or even just practicing takeoff and landing? Have you ever done various practice maneuvers in flight, such as turns maintaining altitude within 100 feet, climbing and descending turns, straight and level holding altitude within 100 feet and heading within 10º, preferably even 5º, all manually?

    Do you stare at the gauges until near the ground (or even then), or do you try to maintain a specific attitude of the aircraft by looking out the window?

    In real life (just as true in the sim), when someone has trouble with basic flying, the solution is to literally go back to basics, even if they've been licensed for many years. It's effective on most people, and on those it isn't it's because they don't work at it. And the basics are learning to fly straight and level (not as easy as it sounds, harder in the sim), climbing and descending turns, changing airspeeds from one steady speed to another, predesignated speed (70 kts to 60 kts, for example), doing ground reference maneuvers (tough to do many of these in the sim, but TO&L is ground reference too), and doing all of this while mostly looking outside, not at the panel.

    With my students I always, before solo, would get them sufficiently proficient that, besides all the things the FAA required, they could fly in the practice area with my coat draped over the instrument panel, then they had to fly the complete traffic pattern (TO&L) a few times with that coat over the panel.

    So back to basics might be your answer, and that is much easier in a light aircraft where things don't happen so fast and where there's not as much inertia to cause momentary delays in the aircraft response to your inputs.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    18,589

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    Don't let it bother you! I was usually left of centerline with any aircraft and conditions. Maybe a certain eye dominance?
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    No flight Sim installed until I get a new computer.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ColR1948 View Post
    Joined your club, I'm a lousy pilot, I tried that 'Autoland' thingy a while ago, it kind of worked but I probably wasn't doing it right.

    I got the AirHauler program and started flying the routes in the Cessna, I got not too bad at the landing, some bumpy ones but I made it. I was going to say instead of the airliners try something slower and smaller.

    Funny though I was watching one of those air crash investigation videos and on one of them there was an airline pilot who always used the autopilot to land, turned out he wasn't that good a pilot and course on this video he crashed. So in real life there are some like us, scary when you think about it.

    Col.
    Col refreshing honesty and humor on your part
    And Zippy I admire your don't get too hung about things and just enjoy the sim attitude
    Actually, while I am here Zip you described to me once how you used Toga for takeoff .
    If you could refresh me I would appreciate that.

    I will keep plugging away as I have for the last seventeen years.
    In another seventeen I could well be in the great departure lounge in the sky.
    So I better get flying tonight as usual with hope in my heart.
    I wonder if lager could be contributing factor? to my landing woes
    Perhaps I am seeing two runways?

    cheers Andy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    18,589

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    Works fine!

    Name:  14632972_1130826650342360_4975726042364436418_n.jpg
Views: 355
Size:  22.5 KB
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    No flight Sim installed until I get a new computer.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK
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    3,288

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrzippy View Post
    Works fine!

    Name:  14632972_1130826650342360_4975726042364436418_n.jpg
Views: 355
Size:  22.5 KB
    OMG Charlie! Every time I see the acronym TOGA I think of this film... Didn't John Belushi's character in Animal House become a Senator? If he was still around he'd probably be one in real life by now, or a Governor.
    Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."
    Xbox Series X and a big smile! Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 7, Intel i5-7600k 3.80GHz, NZXT X62 Kraken, 32Gb Corsair DDR4 3000, 2x 2TB Samsung Hybrid SSD's, LG DVDRW, NVidia GTX1050Ti 4Gb, CH Yoke & Pedals, Dell P2815Q 28" 4k, Win 10 Pro x64

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mallcott View Post
    Use the system we real pilots use:
    Don't aim for the runway; aim instead for the END of the runway and ensure the `sight picture` is parallel with both front and rear aligned in the FOV.
    Hello
    Both you Larry have mentioned this.
    I have in the past tried that ,but don't remember any significant improvements in my landings .I will try again and see what occurs.
    Larry also mentions trying light aircraft, but I have in the past flown the lights,historic (dc3 etc)and others (actually some superb models available) at Fseconomy.
    The problem there was not the aircraft,but the very complex nature of the site itself (to me anyway).
    One possible clue to my poor landings ? Iam nearly always to high on approach. No matter how carefully I make it (using Werner schots guides for various simulator aircraft and there performance) I am still high. I these cases I often have only one option... Kamikaze!!! A rapid dive towards my designated runway which I quite often manage, but not satisfactory for me and probably of the centre of the runway to boot.
    OK I will give you some idea of my fights why I fly them and why I prefer the airliners.
    Every evening I will select a flight of approximately 1000 to 1100 miles.
    I take off climb to my cruising altitude.
    I will then wait until I get to roughly 750 to 800 miles of my destination.
    At this point I will mute the sound of the flight(I don't interact with ATC at all so no problem there)
    I will then select a documentary of an hour in length that I have previously downloaded from the BBC iPlayer
    When that finishes I will unmute the SIM and be approximately 300 miles from my destination and ready for descent into final approach.
    I have done this for years and it really suits me (possibly a bit of autistic spectrum who knows) It would just be nice to finish it off with a good on the centreline (or thereabouts )landing.....a very rare occurrence though it does happen sometimes ;and its such a good feeling I make sure I follow through with a proper taxi to the gate and shutdown..
    Any other of my mostly poor landings I don't bother and just close the SIM. I won't file any bad landings , crashes, overshoots etc to Airsource my favourite VA (well not strictly VA but a wonderful place for virtual pilots to fly the virtual world).
    Anyway that hopefully gives you some idea of how and what I like to fly.
    I may even try the lights again at some point ,you never know I just need to find flights of these smaller aircraft of approximately two to two and half hours so I can STILL fly my routine of....takeoff,climb-out,climb to cruise,mute, watch iPlayer program,descend and land
    Probably still missing centre etc.
    Life is a circle .

    Cheers Andy
    Last edited by HoratioWondersocks; 10-24-2021 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Denver, CO USA KAPA, KLMO, 35CO
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    When approaching the Runway on Final, make small Attitude adjustments with stick and rudder to stay on centerline.
    Put the centerline of the runway right down an imaginary sight line right through the middle of your chair.

    Now, perhaps you could help me; how do you climb in an Airliner to Cruise Altitude? I want to do it right, not just point the nose up and poke a hole in the sky...

    Alan

    "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen
    AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2

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