Landing problems STILL! after seventeen years.

I used to think I had to get the centre of the cockpit to line up with the centre line but I learned that you line up with the centre line like the the screenshot above.

 

Col.

Thanks, Guys

For all the info.

I have certainly learned that landing (like so much of SIM flying) particularly is so dependent on so many variables i.e. weather, weight, etc, but I am sure I was much better at it five or ten years ago.

By the way... I also have a thread concerning takeoffs and the use of the toga procedure and I have to say that isn't going too well either.

I am beginning to wonder if I am perhaps overthinking all this? ......But!, on the takeoff, something has helped but in an unexpected way.

Before I got into all this, my usual takeoff procedure was to set altitude, heading, speed, etc

The autopilot was off at this point, flaps would be set. The autothrottle was set but not activated.

I would start to open the throttle and roll down the runway, and at v1 V2 I would takeoff.

There were usually no problems encountered. Unfortunately, after this initial phase is where my troubles would begin. When climbing out with the flaps and gear up, I will select the autothrottle to increase speed to just below 250kts,(10 thousand feet) I would select it but! on most flights, the autothrottle would not respond, which resulted in me having to repeatedly switch it on and of or the speed button to eventually get a response. (predominantly this was a problem with the PA Airbus)

I decided I would look into TOGA takeoffs for this aircraft; however, another method using the autothrottle was also revealed. This involved having the aircraft lined up and ready to go, but instead of manually using throttle as was usually the case with me I would instead activate the autothrottle and allow it to control my rollout till take-off point; this worked although it took a long time to build up the required speed and would have been tricky on a short runway. This method did allow for good quality takeoffs with the autothrottle functioning correctly now, and ready for the next phase of the flight to flt180.

This was all good stuff until I read that a pilot would never use the autothrottle on the ground like that; whether that's true or not? all was not lost though as I went back to my old method of takeoff described earlier in this post, with one difference I would select the autothrottle very briefly just to see if it was functioning i.e. slight movement of the aircraft plus change of engine note, I would quickly disengage it and then throttle up manually, climb out, and when it came to the point of activating the autopilot and autothrottle again, they would do just that, and not give me the problem of nonactivation with me switching the AT or the speed button on and of to try and get it to respond correctly.

 

Anyway guys I know this thread of mine was concerned primarily with landing rather than takeoff, but it's both ends of the same story and maybe will just add a little more to the great FS9 (X) knowledge base.

 

Now back to landing (that HAS been improving somewhat thanks to all the advice received here.)

PS I noticed a post in the FSX forum I think it was asking "How do you keep FSX(FS9 Interesting")

In my case the reply? 'Just using it'

Cheers Andy

Edited October 31, 2021 by HoratioWondersocks

This is what I meant about putting the Centerline down the middle of the chair:

 

Like Chuck said, put your eyes on the Centerline. I try to do it, but I miss a lot of of the time, too.

 

By the by... the guy in the Video has done a lot of these through the years, and they help me a lot as I'm trying to 'relearn' all of this stuff. I was pretty good way back when... now I'm just a NUB on the bottom of the totem pole, starting from scratch! :p

 

Alan :pilot:

 

Hello Alan

I watched your video on landing with a shoestring and have just tried it myself, using the finest in-flight sim bootlace technology so while watching your video I then had two visual references, your string, AND my bootlace. Both worked ;)

Next, I opened fs9 and selected the last phase of my Airsource flight of last night (I saved that flight as "Landing practice" for later use) I have to say your little trick was very effective at keeping me on track for a good(ish):)(more practice needed) landing and certainly much better than my more recent efforts.

My only little hiccup...I did come close to stalling on turning towards the runway for the final app/land.

One more thing I flew this landing phase(of last night's flight)n the morning when I was much more alert, and certainly alcohol-free, and this made a big difference to the end result I am sure.

I do have to say that my flights are always taken at night and are usually accompanied by ale, and that combination plus general knackerdness can often have me falling asleep before I have even attempted my approach. What I have been doing recently to try to combat this disgraceful lack of self-control on my part is to end my flight nearing the descent and ( I use Pete Dowson's great auto-save app for this purpose as well if needed) and then I complete the landing phase following day with a clear head.

 

Thanks for your video and the great use of string :)

 

cheers Andy

Edited November 1, 2021 by HoratioWondersocks

As an amphibian puddle jumper ... wot's a centerline? :pilot:

 

Regards,

Dorian

... ducking for cover ...

I can't help myself. The reason might because you share the same name as Admiral Horatio Nelson of the Queens Navy. Thus you should be on the high seas rather than in the air. :D

 

Don't mean to brag (well, I do. HAHA) I can't say I ever had this issue, not have I ever crashed unless I was messing around. Now this of course is just a stupid game/Sim. Who knows how I'd fare in the real world.

 

This Vid of me was waaay back when I first started to Sim in FS2004. I don't go farther back than that like others.

 

 

And in FSX.

 

You don't ever land centerline anyway! You'll go *bump, bump, bump* due to the centerline lights.

Maybe Dominic can share his great wisdom on how to land in Fs2004. Granted she's somewhat new but help is help. Thank you.

I've just always been of the opinion to keep the runway between your legs. Just center the landing right on down the line...

 

It's been a while since I flown in the Sim though, but looking at my old videos, I think I can do better.

 

P.S.

 

Of course hardware will matter too. I use a CH Products yoke and pedals. Prior to that it was a PlayStation-like USB gamepad. The right analog stick was yaw and I was damn good with that thing when it came to crabbing. Learning the yoke was a choir after I switched. LOL I flew circuits until I felt comfortable with the dual use of pedals and a yoke. The FS2004 Vid was with said PlayStation-like gamepad. Come to think of it, I may have used the gamepad for that FSX Vid as well. LOL

 

Maybe the biggest thing here is depth perception or something. I really don't know. Just keep the runway between your legs... Hey diddle diddle, straight down the friggin' middle.

Edited November 5, 2021 by CRJ_simpilot

Take it from a long time gamer (~42 years), make life easier on yourself. Note that I didn't say "easy".

 

Here's the thing to remember with games: no matter how good they look or how great your graphics card is, games' graphics will always fall far short of the real world. So, for example, if a first person shooter offers a "cheat" of aiming assist, I turn it on because the game has a clear advantage. My mouse or sticks (on a controller for a game console) are not precise and it's easy to miss my target. Thus, game AI has the advantage.

 

In FS, I almost always land at airports that have an ILS approach, regardless of the plane. ILS was invented to make landing easier. Why not use it? I only use "NAV" on the autopilot and don't use "APR", though; I control descent through power adjustments and/or adjustments to vertical speed.

 

And I land on the center line 100% of the time. I also land in the touchdown zone close to 100% of the time. Is it real-world-like? Not entirely. But is a sim real world? Obviously not. And I haven't even mentioned all the limitations and bugs with M$'s FSs in general.

 

Now, this doesn't mean I fly at the easiest settings possible. Currently, I'm flying VOR to VOR from St Thomas to Grand Cayman in a nasty thunderstorm with shitty visibility and a headwind in a Baron 58. And to heighten the challenge, I remove the GPS in the panel.cfg to eliminate the temptation to check my progress.

 

So anyway, the question you have to ask yourself is, "would I rather be virtually real and keep trying for near perfection (and thus frustrated) or enjoy myself?"

 

I choose to enjoy myself.

ILS was invented to make landing easier.

NOPE! ILS was invented to make landing POSSIBLE under low ceilings (down to 200 feet AGL).

 

And I land on the center line 100% of the time. I also land in the touchdown zone close to 100% of the time. Is it real-world-like? Not entirely.

The aircraft does, but it's not your doing, other than a few button presses.

 

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with doing it that way if it's the way you want to operate, but don't point at it as if it is your skill doing the job (or say that others should do it your way), and it is individual skill and capability that folks are talking about in this thread -- THEIR ability to do these things, not "Can I make the 'game' do it for me?"

 

I choose to enjoy myself.

That's fine, and it does the job for you, but others above are wanting the skill to do it themselves -- a different approach and it is using the program as a sim, rather than as a game.

NOPE! ILS was invented to make landing POSSIBLE under low ceilings (down to 200 feet AGL).

Which makes it easier, does it not? Many years ago I was on a flight where the pilot announced they were using the autopilot and ILS to make the landing and the weather wasn't bad.

 

The aircraft does, but it's not your doing, other than a few button presses.

Thank you Mr Pedantry.

 

...but don't point at it as if it is your skill doing the job

Please quote me where I said that.

 

...(or say that others should do it your way)...

It was unsolicited advice due to the OP not being able to land on the center line for 17 years.

 

...and it is individual skill and capability that folks are talking about in this thread...

And I didn't reply to them, did I?

 

The OP has the option of (a) disregarding me or (b) replying to me. Why don't you let him speak for himself instead of jumping down my throat?

Hello

I would just like to say thanks to all who contributed to my thread.

My landings have really improved over recent weeks.

My original query mentioned landing on the centre line after each approach, and I realize that may not be possible either in 'Real-world' aviation or sim flight aviation, my real problem was not really in trying to achieve perfection in that way, but just trying to manage landings where I at least stayed on the runway after touchdown (even if that did involve much yanking on the joystick and clamping on the brakes as hard as I could.

This landing problem was particularly noticeable with one of my favorites the Posky 747 of which I have many. I would appear to be on track for a good landing, but soon after touchdown having applied reverse thrust, etc slowly but surely the aircraft would start to wander off the runway until I managed to slow it down and stop it in a field or suchlike beyond the runway. VERY unsatisfactory!

To finish off this post now I say again thanks to all for your help, and that things have definitely improved landing wise but realize more practice is required. That is fine by me. It keeps me coming back for more.

Personally, I find making a good landing is so satisfying and rewarding (I like to taxi to the gates and shutdown engines the whole thing) almost regret having to end the flight :)

 

Cheers Andy

Edited November 15, 2021 by HoratioWondersocks

Funny thing, I use only KB and mouse, KB inputs are much more precise and less violent on my planes (and I mean all my planes). F.I. a slight tap on (num) 6> will make my planes vear to the right a few inches. Now luckily that differs by plane, with C152 a tap on 6> will move the plane much stronger and faster than that same tap with whatever bigger plane. I can land any plane in any weather on any runway dead center, though little bit (3 ft or so) to the left because as a pilot you are seated a little left of the planes center line. Only in bad wheater my landing ratings drop a little. And whats more from spot view my flares are virtually indistinguishable from what you see in the avg YTube landing video. Am so happy when I see my spot landings. My deadcentre landings FS9 : 95% FSX 90% with bigger airplanes. And then you can easily set KB sensitivity setting in control-options. With my KB I can make any plane's pitch, bank or yaw movement as fluid and smooth as I want. In all my sims my AP ILS or NAV loc landings are allways 100% I have FS8 FS9 FSX. I7 6700K H110MK 1050TI 16GB 1stick 1tb Sata SSD KB mouse , saving for stronger rig for MSFS. Edited November 15, 2021 by piet06273

Here's some advice I'll share with you. So in the real world, normally I place my inside foot on center line depending on which seat I'm in. This works well until there's a crosswind ;). I'm accustomed to the wing low method and start it somewhere inside of 500ft to allow my hands and legs to warm up and get a feel of what I need to maintain. For flight sim, you have to get a good feel for aim point, glide path and trajectory when dealing with cross winds. Even if I'm looking off to the left for the runway, I need to know where the aircraft is going and how it's tracking in regard to the runway. Get your crosswind sight picture down while flying the approach with the AP on. In sims, you can use your ADI or PFD ADI for tracking the center line. Now, here are some things to consider after touchdown.

 

First, I would use a program such as FSUIPC to help desensitize and add curves to your rudder. In real jets, the rudder pedals are stiff/rigid and you get a good feel of fidelity when using them. You have to adjust your controls to simulate this feel. In the real jet, with 15kts of cross or more, you have a good deal of rudder input as you fly an approach with wing low. Crosswind landings and takeoffs should require some input vs the twitchy super sensitive responses you might find in sim. You might also have to use a different axis for NWS. The jets I've flown have about 5 to 15 left or right rudder pedal steering authority that helps when the nose is down. Now, here are some keys for staying on the center.

 

One of the most important part of staying on center is to touchdown with the nose aligned with the runway. As you enter the flare, look down the runway to gauge your alignment. Where ever the nose is pointed, that's where you will initially go on touchdown. If your nose is pointed left or right, you will have to dance on the rudder to compensate. That might exacerbate things. Also, use your crosswind controls during crosswind landings. One thing I noticed with new people is that they give up on crosswind controls at touchdown. So when you are in the flare, you should have your rudder and ailerons dialed in and locked. Your ailerons are giving you that left and right movement along the runway. When you relax the ailerons, not only will the jet roll away from the wind, it will drift that way as well. Keep those controls in, she is still flying at touchdown. Another thing to note, mainly real world though. While in the flare, you are using ailerons and those good ole flight spoilers. Once you touch down, those flight spoilers may become ground spoilers. This means you will need an increase of aileron input. I haven't seen it much in sim, but may become a factor as developers/sims get better at capturing aircraft behavior.

 

Rick

One day my instructor asked if I was British just after we landed...

"No, why?"

"Because you CONSISTENTLY land on the left side of the runway!"

"Technically, I landed on the left NUMBER of the runway Boss."

One day my instructor asked if I was British just after we landed...

"No, why?"

"Because you CONSISTENTLY land on the left side of the runway!"

"Technically, I landed on the left NUMBER of the runway Boss."

 

I had a conversation with my instructor about landing slightly to the left of the centreline on the asphalt runway. He refused to accept my `excuse` until I pointed out the raised centreline inducing a front wheel oscillation, before finally concedng I knew more about that particular runway than he did...

 

`Local` knowledge better than perceived wisdom?

Op de middellijn landen ?… zoek ILS frequentie.. invoeren in VOR1. Autopilot AP inschakelen vlak voor landing. Dan APR approach inschakelen. Trottle gas minderen tot landingssnelheid. Landen met Trottle.

Op de middellijn landen ?… zoek ILS frequentie.. invoeren in VOR1. Autopilot AP inschakelen vlak voor landing. Dan APR approach inschakelen. Trottle gas minderen tot landingssnelheid. Landen met Trottle.

 

Does dim byd o'i le gyda glanio fel yna ond mae post cyntaf yr OP yn awgrymu bod o'n cael trafferth pan ceisio glanio'r awyren gyda'i ddwylo, nid gyda'r AP, na'r modd APR.

 

D

 

;)

I’ve been flight simming since SubLogic built a simulator for the Atari 400/800, so maybe approaching 40 years. Most of my hours, probably several thousand across at least a dozen installations of FS9 on four different machines, have been a struggle back and forth with approaches and landings. In FS9 and FSX, when I find my approaches getting sloppy, I hop in the Piper Cub and start doing visual approaches, touch and go and around the pattern. Back to basics, the way my father learned flying Cubs, Taylorcrafts and Ryan’s for primary in WW2, thus the way he taught me to fly the earliest simulators.

 

Fix a visual touchdown point, don’t let it move, for glide slope. Fix on far end of runway aligned with touch down point for alignment of your approach (rather than some center point on your windscreen, as your approach may need to be crabbed for crosswinds, unless you are skilled at side slipping, something the simulation does not very well simulate, even if you have rudder pedals.

 

A few (or many) good approaches and landings in a slow, primitive aircraft will help develop coordination of visuals with control actions that apply as well to aircraft that move faster and require faster assessments of the situation and quicker reactions. If flying only high performance aircraft with 120 knot approach speeds, you may never work out smooth landing approaches. These skills are usually first developed at 1/3 to 1/2 the speed, then scaled up.