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Thread: Fastest jet on MSFS?

  1. #11

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXsenna View Post
    Why on earth would anyone fly "fighters" in this SIM anyway.
    They're just another plane. If you want to do bigtime sightseeing, like checking out the west coast of Mexico, or if you want to see the Rockies from way up high a modern fighter is the way to go.

    I bought the Eurofighter, simply because it was the cheapest at $15.00. It is tough to land, It would be helpful if there were a way to assign the speedbrakes to a switch or key, things get quite busy about the time you need them.

    I got the Eurofighter up to 1,285 kts IAS which is 1,479 mph at sea level and over 2,000 mph at 60,000 ft, but mph isn't the way speed is viewed by a pilot, Jets use mach number.
    http://www.tscm.com/mach-as.pdf
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ngs1022 View Post
    Also why can't you break the sound barrier. Seems like Ms FSX you could? No vapor trail at 32,000 ft also
    Why can't you break the sound barrier? Others have in a few planes. Keep in mind most aircraft don't have the thrust/drag to exceed the speed of sound in level flight anyway, and most would see the airframe break up fairly quick as well if they did.

    I do know that a handful of airliners have exceeded the speed of sound, that were not designed for it. Obviouly the Tu-144 and Concorde were made to cruise fast like that, but I'm pretty sure I heard of a B-747 briefly exceeding Mach, accidentally during an emergency (rapid descent?). Also, I heard a Convair airliner and also DC-8 did the same. I think the DC-8 did Mach during an experimental flight, on purpose, as a sales point to show how tough the jet was.

    Boeing test pilot Tex Johnston did a barrel roll in front of thousands of people, including potential buyers, to show the B-707 was a capable plane! There is footage on youtube of that famous barrel roll, it took place over Lake Washington, Seattle, Washington, I think during SeaFair, a boating festival that includes a wild boat race with unlimited Hydroplanes that have INSANE power and speed.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfojimbo View Post
    They're just another plane. If you want to do bigtime sightseeing, like checking out the west coast of Mexico, or if you want to see the Rockies from way up high a modern fighter is the way to go.

    I bought the Eurofighter, simply because it was the cheapest at $15.00. It is tough to land, It would be helpful if there were a way to assign the speedbrakes to a switch or key, things get quite busy about the time you need them.

    I got the Eurofighter up to 1,285 kts IAS which is 1,479 mph at sea level and over 2,000 mph at 60,000 ft, but mph isn't the way speed is viewed by a pilot, Jets use mach number.
    http://www.tscm.com/mach-as.pdf
    Fair enough. My point was obviously that if you really want to learn "a fighter" and it's systems etc. you're better off another place, but it's only dollars? We'll i guess that's fair. Hard to land? That I don't believe. Guess I have to check that out myself.

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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXsenna View Post
    if you really want to learn "a fighter" and it's systems etc. you're better off another place, but it's only dollars?
    I don't look at it as a "fighter", I see it as a very high performance airplane. I have no interest in its "systems". The performance difference between a Eurofighter and an F-15 or F-22 is trivial, so why pay double to get that type of aircraft?
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  6. #16
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    With my limited use of the F-14 in MSFS2020 I'd have to say the sim is not really designed for military aircraft, I seem to get that impression... Why have them in the sim someone asked.... Some of us love flying them, for me, I love ripping through mountains like the Rockies the Pyrenees and canyons, landings and takeoffs from aircraft carriers and flying from London to Paris whilst eating my bacon sandwich for supper..... They add and different and welcomed (this end anyway) perspective to the sim just like the helicopter has done.... end trans
    Last edited by daspinall; 09-29-2021 at 12:25 PM.
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  7. #17

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    One reason for fighter planes in FS, is that most "combat oriented flight sims" don't feature very large terrain maps... so if you want to fly in places that have interesting places, or of historical significance, MSFS or XP11 civil sims are your only choice.

    Another reason is that most fighters have really awesome cockpit visibility, certainly FAR better than any airliner... so if you want to do some sightseeing, sometimes helicopters are best, other times a fighter with a nice bubble canopy is more appropriate. For example, flying through the Grand Canyon in southwestern USA. Even in the real world this has an impact, as there are Twin Otters flying the Grand Canyon, that have huge extra large windows for the visiting passengers...those are called Vistaliner Conversions, done by R.W. Martin Inc., Carlsbad, CA

    https://www.twinotterworld.com/msn-524

    https://www.vikingair.com/twin-otter...%9D-upgrade-do

    The other thing is, if you are flying through mountains, fighters have plenty of maneuverability to follow the valley easily.

    That said... it takes a lot of effort to make a fighter in FS fly just like the real fighter, and usually that effort isn't put in, to the extent that it is in other sims. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but most seem to just be a pretty model with some "go fast" flight characteristics and maybe an afterburner animation! Things like fuel burn rate in afterburner, ordnance weight, radar settings, approach speeds and high AOA performance may not come even remotely in the same region as the real plane though.
    Last edited by Herc79; 09-29-2021 at 02:25 PM.

  8. #18
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    There are several reasons that it is difficult to find fighters that mirror the actual performance envelope of the actual aircraft. First, most artist are not also engineers. It seems to be a typical brain taxonomy that artistic talent is at the opposite end of the spectrum to the math and science brain. You get rare exceptions, but I don't ask a great singer to do chemistry research, and I would not want to attend the exhibit of most of the engineers I know.
    So on to problem number 2. This is a new flight model, with a completely different way to create flight characteristics. You can't just convert a file from FSX or FS2000 and acquire any useful parameters. Most artists depend on some plugin air file generator. This may work great if you are building a Piper Apache, or even a DC-4, but it is WAY off for fighters. The reason is the design characteristics of fighters are very different than GA or commercial aviation aircraft. Both GA and airliners, try to achieve stability and ease of handling as performance goals. They don't value turn radius or maneuverability at all. They don't need high G performance. Fighters on the other hand, usually deliberately create unstable or ragge4d edge stability, and try to get maximum maneuverability and acceleration. The plug in programs are optimized for stable and comfortable. Even if the artist has a math friend plug in the data, the program will still create a very fast GA aircraft.
    Now problem number 3. This is the big one!! There is no SDK yet. Only the inner circle at Asobo and maybe a few at PMDG or such, really understand how the FS2020 parameters work. Certainly the guy that builds the free F-89 has no ideas how they work. Now that would be a comparatively easy airfile, but then go to a SU-30, and it is super complicated. Some modern fighters have thrust vectoring, computer aided stability, and movable flight surfaces. There are no handbooks to tell the airfile guy what will generate the math to model some of those.
    Last edited by plainsman; 09-29-2021 at 05:48 PM.
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  9. #19

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    Well, snippety snip snip.
    I'm not trying to diss MSFS, I got the deluxe version on day one, and I enjoy it.
    From the latest posts it'd seem a free UFO would be the best option.

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by plainsman View Post
    There are several reasons that it is difficult to find fighters that mirror the actual performance envelope of the actual aircraft. First, most artist are not also engineers. It seems to be a typical brain taxonomy that artistic talent is at the opposite end of the spectrum to the math and science brain. You get rare exceptions, but I don't ask a great singer to do chemistry research, and I would not want to attend the exhibit of most of the engineers I know.
    So on to problem number 2. This is a new flight model, with a completely different way to create flight characteristics. You can't just convert a file from FSX or FS2000 and acquire any useful parameters. Most artists depend on some plugin air file generator. This may work great if you are building a Piper Apache, or even a DC-4, but it is WAY off for fighters. The reason is the design characteristics of fighters are very different than GA or commercial aviation aircraft. Both GA and airliners, try to achieve stability and ease of handling as performance goals. They don't value turn radius or maneuverability at all. They don't need high G performance. Fighters on the other hand, usually deliberately create unstable or ragge4d edge stability, and try to get maximum maneuverability and acceleration. The plug in programs are optimized for stable and comfortable. Even if the artist has a math friend plug in the data, the program will still create a very fast GA aircraft.
    Now problem number 3. This is the big one!! There is no SDK yet. Only the inner circle at Asobo and maybe a few at PMDG or such, really understand how the FS2020 parameters work. Certainly the guy that builds the free F-89 has no ideas how they work. Now that would be a comparatively easy airfile, but then go to a SU-30, and it is super complicated. Some modern fighters have thrust vectoring, computer aided stability, and movable flight surfaces. There are no handbooks to tell the airfile guy what will generate the math to model some of those.

    thanks, some good points, makes a whole lot of sense... F-14 s is pretty old school compared to modern jets and why I love it....
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