Still grounded -- and Steamed

My PC and I are still having conniptions over an attempted reinstall of MSFS 2020 Steam Edition. Yesterday, I thought we were on the right track as I watched the PC download and seemingly install 153 gb of data, a process that began in late morning and concluded by early evening. At that point, I assumed the sim would be okay. But when I experimentally launched it later in the evening, I soon learned it wasn't. Instead of taking me to the welcome screen, the sim took me back to the download screen, for another installation attempt. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result being the definition of idiocy, I control-alt-deleted out of MSFS, shut down my PC and went to bed.

 

Around 3 a.m., I woke up thinking about workarounds:

 

I could abandon the MSFS 2020 Steam Edition altogether and buy the sim again, but this time from the MSFT store (even though I'd been there, done that);

 

I could revert Windows 10 to factory defaults, and then--after resurrecting my virus protection and a another essential app, plus my preferred browser--log into Steam and reinstall MSFS on a PC expunged of corrupted files, avoiding shelling out more money for a program I already owned;

 

Or, perhaps all I had to do was uninstall/reinstall the Steam app, log in, and then download MSFS, which is the workaround I decided on after several sleepless hours. Time will tell if this time is the charm.

 

In the meantime, I would welcome any comments/advice from other Steam Edition simmers re. installation issues they may have encountered.

Since I use the standard PC version of MSFS and have had no problems with it, that certainly seems like an attractive option from my biased point of view.

 

Are you sure you can't persuade Microsoft to transfer one to the other so you don't pay double?

 

If you do pay again, I would suggest not paying for premium or delux as I am now convinced that this was a total rip-off. If you really do want one of the other plane models they offer, you can buy that on your own later.

Sometimes it's as simple as logging out of steam and back in again, should be no need to delete steam off your system, if it's installed correctly.... I have mine on MS Store and had a directory issue and had to reinstall mine was 175 Gibs then in content manager another big download of content and add ons....

 

My advice is simple log out of steam reboot, it never hurts then log back in again...... sometimes the simplest solution is the right solution, good luck... I have most of my games on steam and when things go bump in the night i log out reboot log in and all is fine........

Sometimes it's as simple as logging out of steam and back in again, should be no need to delete steam off your system, if it's installed correctly....

I tried logging out and logging in before the previous, unsuccessful download yesterday. Deleting and then reinstalling Steam on my computer this morning was the next logical step. I'm hopeful for success this go-around because MSFS launched and brought up the download screen more smoothly than before; the splash initial screens opened smoothly, and the white update wheel also rotated (revolved?) smoothly, whereas yesterday, it was very jerky. My fingers are crossed ...

Since I use the standard PC version of MSFS and have had no problems with it, that certainly seems like an attractive option from my biased point of view.

 

Are you sure you can't persuade Microsoft to transfer one to the other so you don't pay double?

 

If you do pay again, I would suggest not paying for premium or delux as I am now convinced that this was a total rip-off. If you really do want one of the other plane models they offer, you can buy that on your own later.

Today I uninstalled MSFS and Steam, reinstalled Steam, signed in, and reinstalled MSFS, hoping that a Steam uninstall/reinstall would make the difference. It did not. But then something odd happened. I had taken off from Watsonville in the non-global Cessna 172, and everything was herky-jerky. So I hit control + alt + del to bring up the task manager, clicked on the bar on the blue screen, which took me back to the sim, with the task manager box in the foreground. Now everything suddenly ran very smoothly. But if I clicked on something in the cockpit, the task manager box went away and the jerky motion returned. So I control/alt/deleted again, brought the end task box back up on the screen, and proceeded to nail the landing on RWY 20 at KWVI. Conclusion: there's nothing wrong with Steam's MSFS and the same thing would likely happen if I repurchased MSFS from MSFT. Instead, there's something suddenly amiss with my OS, which was fine before all this started. The only thing I can think to do now is restore Windows to factory settings, reinvent my PC's wheel, and hope my problem is solved.

Are you sure you can't persuade Microsoft to transfer one to the other so you don't pay double?

 

:D Sorry, but can't keep from laughing. Persuade Microsoft?

 

As grandad said, "It just don't work that way, son."

I reset Windows 10, and after restoring my preferred Chrome browser, reinstalling my Norton antivirus software and my password manager, I downloaded the Steam app, logged in, and commenced a reinstall of MSFS 2020 (which will take what's left of the afternoon and the rest of the evening). This time before the reinstall began, a little MSFT login window came up. It was supposed to come up before, per the instructions on uninstalling and reinstalling the MSFT 2020 Steam Edition that I'd downloaded a couple of days ago. But for some reason the Microsoft log-in never popped up in my several previous uninstall/reinstall attempts, and I think this might be part of the reason the sim wouldn't run properly after those reinstalls. Nevertheless, that doesn't explain why the reinstall I did previous to the one now in progress ran smoothly when the task manager's end-task window was open in the foreground of the sim--or why the sim turned herky-jerky if I minimized the end-task window by clicking on something in the sim, and resumed running smoothly when I opened the end-task window again. Please, any true nerds here: Go figure.

My brother (who unfortunately doesn't live in town) is a hardware engineer by profession, in aviation coincidentally. When I was telling him the story of how I wound up sending him an email at 3:45am on a Saturday night--because I was trying to follow along with an elaborate method on Youtube of punching in commands and configurations to get my VR to work--he made the comment, "Yeah, this is pretty much part of our culture in the PC world."

 

Me: So, Steve Jobs, "it just works," that's not the culture even today? Even after Apple took away billions of dollars of marketshare? No lessons learned?

 

Him: Nope!

 

Mind you, he is a full-blown PC guy. As for me, I'm neither Mac nor PC biased, as long as I can plug the damn thing in and it does what I paid for it to do.

 

The next Steve Jobs/Bill Gates of the world will be the one who eliminates experiences like yours completely from their system.

The problem is we all use our computers differently. One person is a writer, another a cartographer, a third is a mathematician.

Steve Jobs, "it just works," that's not the culture even today? Even after Apple took away billions of dollars of market share? No lessons learned?

 

The next Steve Jobs/Bill Gates of the world will be the one who eliminates experiences like yours completely from their system.

I've never had a Mac or an Apple laptop; I always been a "Wintel" person. But I have an iPhone and an iPad, and they definitely "just work." I have no idea what's going on behind their screens, and I don't care.

I reset Windows 10, and after restoring my preferred Chrome browser, reinstalling my Norton antivirus software and my password manager, I downloaded the Steam app, logged in, and commenced a reinstall of MSFS 2020 (which will take what's left of the afternoon and the rest of the evening). This time before the reinstall began, a little MSFT login window came up. It was supposed to come up before, per the instructions on uninstalling and reinstalling the MSFT 2020 Steam Edition that I'd downloaded a couple of days ago. But for some reason the Microsoft log-in never popped up in my several previous uninstall/reinstall attempts, and I think this might be part of the reason the sim wouldn't run properly after those reinstalls.

Resetting Windows worked. And MSFS downloaded and installed faster this time.

 

In celebration, I took a victory lap around Narita Int. Airport in the Cessna 172. Why Narita? Because I didn't want to fly at night. I haven't spent any time to speak of at Asobo's hand-crafted airports, and the detail at Narita and its environs blew me away. Even my wife was impressed when I showed her the view out the left-hand window. I meant to land as well as take off there, but I flew too short on the downwind leg, twice, and came in too high on final, so I just called it a night (or rather day), escaped the flight, returned to the welcome screen and quit to the desktop.

Me: So, Steve Jobs, "it just works," that's not the culture even today? Even after Apple took away billions of dollars of marketshare? No lessons learned?

 

Him: Nope!

 

To be fair, Windows has got a lot better over the years while still supporting almost any piece of PC hardware out there. When was the last time you had to worry about IRQ conflicts, for example?

 

On the flip side, a big part of the Mac "It just works" culture is that you are limited to what Apple deems will be allowed. If what you want to accomplish fits this, you're good to go, however if it doesn't, you're likely out of luck. Nvidia GPUs haven't been supported for a number of generations now, for example.

Good to hear it's working again. Hope it continues running smoothly.

I have the steam edition. It installed and runs ok, but I'm not happy with steams customer service. I cant contact them. I wouldn't recommend anyone to get the steam version.

I have the steam edition. It installed and runs ok, but I'm not happy with steams customer service. I cant contact them. I wouldn't recommend anyone to get the steam version.

I'm sure they're just as good as MSFT customer service.

Rest assured that, if MSFS or any other game (because it's just that, a game) drove me to have to reset my OS and reinstall web browser and AV sotware (not to mention other apps), I would never install that game again.

 

Fortunately enough, that has not been the case (so far anyway).

The only game in MSFS is getting it to work correctly, the prize for doing that is a fully fledged flight simulator which will allow the winners to enjoy the physics of flight...... not to mention improve your flying skills in all sorts of situations...... If you just want to crash and burn into building or do loop de loops all day then you wasted a lot of money....... If you can not see it's potential and only see a game then maybe it's not really for you........ As for the people at ASOBO building a flightsim to the high specifications set by MS must be one of the biggest challenges ASOBO studio as ever undertaken!!!!!!! Kudos to ASOBO!!! Edited March 12, 2021 by daspinall

The only game in MSFS is getting it to work correctly, the prize for doing that is a fully fledged flight simulator which will allow the winners to enjoy the physics of flight...... not to mention improve your flying skills in all sorts of situations...... If you just want to crash and burn into building or do loop de loops all day then you wasted a lot of money....... If you can not see it's potential and only see a game then maybe it's not really for you........

 

Take it the way you want, but it is a game. Sophisticated, true. Inspirational, OK. But a computer game after all. Otherwise, go and try getting a pilot license only with what you can get from it, not to mention the usual "not to be used in real life" you can find on every related doc.

 

Nothing wrong in playing games, though, or spending all the money you want or can on them. I for one have been in the hobby since the times of Sublogic Flight Simulator II, in the early 80's, when our managing director Nels Anderson ran, not a website, but a thematic, pioneering BBS in the RIME circuit, if you know what I'm talking about.

 

So please, let me decide what's for me and what not :cool:

Take it the way you want, but it is a game. Sophisticated, true. Inspirational, OK. But a computer game after all. Otherwise, go and try getting a pilot license only with what you can get from it, not to mention the usual "not to be used in real life" you can find on every related doc.

 

Nothing wrong in playing games, though, or spending all the money you want or can on them. I for one have been in the hobby since the times of Sublogic Flight Simulator II, in the early 80's, when our managing director Nels Anderson ran, not a website, but a thematic, pioneering BBS in the RIME circuit, if you know what I'm talking about.

 

So please, let me decide what's for me and what not :cool:

 

I'm not sure you're worthy of this reply you seem full of attitude but here goes.....

 

 

VATSIM.net and it's member will disagree with it's just a game, it's also a very valuable tool for learning and practicing, 15 years back I never knew how to handle ATC until I jumped in a sim just as an example and was able to use that knowledge on VATSIM.net.... It's not FAA approved no MS flightsim is... I suppose the correct question is, why did you buy the sim what do you want out of it..... some of us want realism in a VATSIM.net environment which is as close as one can get to flying the real thing....... Some just want to play around and do silly things... It's the constant bitching at the creators ASOBO and collaborators that gets me.... MSFS have spawned a huge community over the decades from all walks of life, and it's about the community as a whole that is catered for not the individual.... and this is why you will find stuff liveries and whatever you may not be interested in but others will.... it's down to you to tailor your sim the way you want it........ you simply have not given much thought to the Mammoth task ASOBO have taken on, then having Corvid thrown in the mix.............. Happy Flying...

The only game in MSFS is getting it to work correctly, the prize for doing that is a fully fledged flight simulator which will allow the winners to enjoy the physics of flight...... not to mention improve your flying skills in all sorts of situations...... If you just want to crash and burn into building or do loop de loops all day then you wasted a lot of money....... If you can not see it's potential and only see a game then maybe it's not really for you........ As for the people at ASOBO building a flightsim to the high specifications set by MS must be one of the biggest challenges ASOBO studio as ever undertaken!!!!!!! Kudos to ASOBO!!!

How can you see doing aerobatics as not "improving your flying skills"?

 

I learned to fly in a Citabria (that name spelled backwards, is "airbatic"), my flight instructor did air shows; his landing tutorial included landing and getting the plane stopped on the numbers at KSTS (not touch down on the numbers, but actually have it stopped while still on the numbers); VFR is the only type of flying I'm really interested in. I'm not instrument rated and I have no desire to be instrument rated. Some of the flying reports posted here sound about as interesting as spending an afternoon programming in FORTRAN.

 

I love the fact that the sim let's me do things that we can't do in real life. I can fly 100' above the Merced River from Mariposa to Yosemite (and do the same in the Grand Canyon) and I always land the 172 in Central Park (Sheep Meadow) when I'm done flying over Manhattan.

 

Also, it bares mentioning that I am wary of the direction professional aviation has taken; more than a few airline pilots these days see themselves as merely monitors of machinery and when the time comes to actually fly the plane arrives, they all too frequently fail re: Air France Flight 447, Asiana 214, Atlas Air 3591 and currently Sriwijaya Air Flight 182; these are cases where the pilots flying the planes just didn't have the required skills. I can't understand why airlines don't require their pilots to do an aerobatic routine twice a year in a real plane (or even in a sim!), it would save lives for sure. It would make me feel safer as a passenger.

 

US airlines are probably the best at this kind of training. Here's an example of what American Airlines has done: https://community.infiniteflight.com/t/american-airline-s-aamp-training-videos-w-captain-warren-vanderburgh/463070

 

In the end: to each his or her own.

Edited March 12, 2021 by sfojimbo

This debate pops up every now and then and that's okay. Not sure anyone is 100% wrong, really. But claiming "this is just a game" is--ironically--ignoring reality. Not it's not just a game. It is primarily a simulation-based game, yes. But it is not "just a game."

 

Preparing for my own first introductory real-life instruction flight, I watched this entire video from start to finish of another student pilot's first flight:

 

 

I'm sorry for not bookmarking the time stamps since the video is 37 minutes long, but at two or three points during the flight the instructor and pilot have a conversation while flying that largely goes like this:

 

CFI: So you've gotten flight instruction before?

 

Student: Just a few hours. And then (laughing) you probably won't count this but I've flown on Flight Simulator a lot. (Later in their conversation the student specifies this to be Microsoft's FS. This is a 2015 video.)

 

CFI: Oh I definitely do count that as having value. I get a lot of these kids these days as students who have been flying on FS for 4 or 5 years, and they already know all the basics. What take me 3 days to teach someone else, these FS players only need 1 day. Also, FS is really great for teaching people how to fly on instruments, especially when it comes to actually scanning the instruments while flying and getting used to that.

 

Student: That's cool. I can see how it must help with learning instrument flying. Maybe with VFR it's not so helpful.

 

CFI: Nope even for learning VFR there are benefits to training on FS first.

 

To emphasize, no one here is claiming that MSFS or any sim game is a substitute for aviation training, much less the only training someone would need to ever fly a real plane. However, MSFS is clearly interwoven with the world of aviation and it plays a role. For many people, that role is pretty significant in translating into real world experiences. I'm probably a good example of that now.

Rest assured that, if MSFS or any other game (because it's just that, a game) drove me to have to reset my OS and reinstall web browser and AV sotware (not to mention other apps), I would never install that game again.

I have no interest in computer "games" (shooting bad guys, slaying dragons, building cities, fighting battles, ruling civilizations, or whatever). I have always been interested in aviation. I once mulled taking flying lessons someday, but when I understood that--unlike in a car--there's nowhere to easily pull over if you get in trouble in a plane, I abandoned that idea. So MSFS 2020's simulation is as close as I'll get to flying a real GA aircraft. That said, in my nearly 60 hours of virtual flight time in MSFS thus far, I've really enjoyed the sim and learning about flying small planes (and especially how to land them) as I go.

 

Finally, my PC is dedicated to MSFS 2020; that's what I got it for, and it was a big investment. I don't know what happened to the software. I suspect it was somehow corrupted when I bought an ultralight aircraft through Steam's in-game marketplace. It worked/flew fine, but I decided I didn't like it, requested a refund, and removed it (uninstalled it) in my content manager. The problems began immediately thereafter. Resetting Windows was not a big hassle. As I noted, I only had to restore a few apps and a preferred web browser. Thereafter, the sim downloaded from Steam without problems, is running great again, and I'm flying "high," settings-wise.