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Disstance from Airport


pdmike

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I need some way to tell how far I am from my destination airport. ILS frequencies only kick in around 27 miles out. I need something with far more distance than that. What should I look for at or near the airport to accomplish distance information?
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Check your map for any high altitude VOR stations near your airport.

 

Actually, it will need to be a VORTAC, which includes DME, or a VOR/DME. A plain VOR does not have DME. Also, the only reason for a high altitude VORTAC is the additional range it gives. But you're still only looking at a max of maybe 130 NM if you're high enough (they're strictly line-of-sight), often less, especially when lower. At 1,000 ft AGL you should only have about a 40NM range, or often less. BTW, googling "range of high altitude VOR" (without the quotes) brings up lots of links to good VOR information.

 

Otherwise, Mike, you will want to use some variation of a flight plan on the GPS (even Direct To), which can tell you how far you have to go (GPS sure spoils us). Or you can do the way we used to do "way back when," and have your flight plotted on a chart (and each leg entered in a flight log), keep track of your position as you fly along, and add up the legs remaining. More useful than miles, though, was time remaining, and we always had an estimated time enroute and recorded our departure time, so we could estimate how long to destination. This also helped us track fuel usage (gauges are notoriously inaccurate in aircraft, especially as the tanks get low), knowing how many GPH (Gallons Per Hour) our aircraft burned. Checking time and miles, as above, also helped us determine if the winds aloft forecast was close or way off, so that we could adjust our plan if needed.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Do they have NDB's in FSX? I don't seem to see them on the Flight Planning Map.

 

Yes, but NDBs are no longer real common. They don't give any form of distance information, though, only bearing, and you need an ADF receiver to receive them.

 

It's been a long time since I looked at the default maps in FSX, but I think there is a way to tell the map what kinds of things you want to look at on them, being able to switch NDBs, airports, VORs, etc. on or off on the map. Or perhaps I'm remembering some other program.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Actually, it will need to be a VORTAC, which includes DME, or a VOR/DME. A plain VOR does not have DME. Also, the only reason for a high altitude VORTAC is the additional range it gives. But you're still only looking at a max of maybe 130 NM if you're high enough (they're strictly line-of-sight), often less, especially when lower. At 1,000 ft AGL you should only have about a 40NM range, or often less. BTW, googling "range of high altitude VOR" (without the quotes) brings up lots of links to good VOR information.

 

Otherwise, Mike, you will want to use some variation of a flight plan on the GPS (even Direct To), which can tell you how far you have to go (GPS sure spoils us). Or you can do the way we used to do "way back when," and have your flight plotted on a chart (and each leg entered in a flight log), keep track of your position as you fly along, and add up the legs remaining. More useful than miles, though, was time remaining, and we always had an estimated time enroute and recorded our departure time, so we could estimate how long to destination. This also helped us track fuel usage (gauges are notoriously inaccurate in aircraft, especially as the tanks get low), knowing how many GPH (Gallons Per Hour) our aircraft burned. Checking time and miles, as above, also helped us determine if the winds aloft forecast was close or way off, so that we could adjust our plan if needed.

 

Excellent advice here - thanks so much. VORTAC sounds like just what I need. I like to fly an IFR flight plan without ATC, which means I need to gauge my descent rate and in order to do that, I need to know how far I am from the airport and the farther out I get that information, the better.

 

I know what you are talking about when you mention using the GPS flight plan to tell distance to airport. That's fine, but I would rather do it using the VORTAC.

 

I am having trouble determining the VORTAC frequency for any given airport. I don't see it listed anywhere on the airport information charts I have been able to access. How do I get the VORTAC frequency for an airport? Once I get the VORTAC frequency, which radio do I enter it into? And where does the distance information appear on the panel?

Edited by pdmike
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I am having trouble determining the VORTAC frequency for any given airport.

 

That's probably because few airports have a VOR or VORTAC on the field. There may be one within a few miles or there may be one 40 or more miles away. So you'll need to spend some time looking at charts to find one or more NAVAIDS that can help you. In the pre-GPS days, it was rare to get a clearance direct, rather we flew the Victor or Jet airways, all defined by radials off of VORs, which were the best guidance available, so no straight line stuff.

 

As a result, there was more time needed to plan the flight, and there was more tracking yourself on the charts and doing your own figuring, which is the only way you'll get (sort of) what you want by using VORs. That's a lot of limitations compared to GPS navigation (though in real life you should do a lot of that anyway, even with GPS).

 

So flying via VOR is a LOT more work and study and careful planning and tracking than what you can get by with using GPS.

 

What you are asking for isn't possible without understanding VORs and DMEs and using charts and manually figuring times and distances, without GPS, so you might want to google for a number of VOR resources on the web (there are a lot, including FAA manuals) and to study them and practice flying short trips on the Victor airways (you'll need charts, or perhaps the map in the sim might give enough information), before tackling longer trips. And you will need the charts to find the various VORs and where they may be in relation to airports. It really IS a lot easier with GPS.

 

You can find a digital version (PDF) of the FAA's wall planning chart at: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/vfr/#Planning -- it's a rather huge PDF but you can download it for easy reference. There are many other charts there, too. For IFR flight it's best to use the enroute charts, but it may take some research (perhaps some reading of the FAA's Instrument Manuals) to understand the charts.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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This may be complete anathema to you, but I use FS Commander.

I make flight plans with it, mainly flying IFR in airliners.

I have it running on a second monitor.

It shows route etc, but one of the little windows it has, gives the distance from destination airport, amongst other info.

 

If you are a purist, this may be not for you. Lol

 

My main use of it is to make the flight plan, in which I determine cruise altitude, which parking area I start from, etc.

But mostly, it has all the ILS frequencies of the destination sirport, for when ATC tells me which runway is in use to land on.

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This may be complete anathema to you, but I use FS Commander.

I make flight plans with it, mainly flying IFR in airliners.

I have it running on a second monitor.

It shows route etc, but one of the little windows it has, gives the distance from destination airport, amongst other info.

 

If you are a purist, this may be not for you. Lol

 

My main use of it is to make the flight plan, in which I determine cruise altitude, which parking area I start from, etc.

But mostly, it has all the ILS frequencies of the destination sirport, for when ATC tells me which runway is in use to land on.

 

I had totally forgotten about FSCommander. I have had it on my computer for several years but haven't broken it out to really use it. Before it went away, I used FSNavigator as my total right arm. When FSNav was no longer available, I really felt lost. Still do. I note that Sascha Felix is behind FSCommander. Isn't he the same guy that authored FSNavigator?

 

Anyway - no, I am not a purist, but I want to be as close to real life flying as possible. I think there is a middle ground here.

 

Thanks for reminding me about FSC. Now I just have to figure out how to use it.

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In my F-22 I use a gauge found here in the library called a WAAS gauge. This gauge is just awesome. It shows a moving map alone with distance to an airport and other things. It also gives you a poor man's ILS for runways without an ILS. I've used it many times. In fact, I use it with ILS in case ILS goes out then I have a backup. The only issue with this gauge is that it may be hard to understand how to do things in it. You have to use the buttons like how the default GPS works, but it's slightly different and can be a PITA for those non technical types. But once you learn it's great.

 

Absent of that, then the default GPS will suffice. You just enter the ICAO of your destination airport or waypoint, VOR, NDB and it'll tell you how far away in nautical miles and an ETA along with a XTE (cross track error). If you fly the extreme northern and southern hemispheres the GPS will go bonkers. LOL

 

For a map, I personally use Little Navmap on my second monitor. This will show AI planes and helicopters as well has distances, VORs, NDBs, terrain, etc. It's an absolute for me to use especially when I fly into Nepal. If you want to utilize two monitors like this you have to put the Sim in windowed mode.

 

You could also get really nerdy and figure it all out based on time traveled, ground speed, head wind and all that. Then you can correct for error based on points you cross and what their expected crossing times should be. Of course this is all planned out beforehand. In the early days of flight this was how ATC worked. YOU'd radio in that you crossed such and such and then they plot that on a chalkboard. And I think ETOPS does this to an extent. Except in replace of a chalkboard it be a computer. Now-a-days everything is going Sat. Yes, that means ADS-B is picked up by a bird overhead.

 

Yes, there are NDBs in FSX. I've read in real life DME can be hit and miss due to propagation. Especially true for the low frequency characteristics of a NDB. But now NDBs are being phased out if not VORs as well. I've also read VORTAC DME can be skewed at night due to propagation characteristics.

 

If your into radio like I am you can listen for the real NDBs and request a QSL card stating you picked it up on your receiver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QSL_card

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Yes, there are NDBs in FSX.

Indeed there are but they are not for distance measuring but flying towards by following the needle.

 

Is there some confusion here with DME beacons? These give you distance, and the function is frequently combined with a VOR.

 

Sorry to hear they are being phased out - thank goodness they will always be there in FSX or "real" navigation would be lost.

 

J

http://www.adventure-unlimited.org

 

My co-pilot's name is Sid and he's a star!

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Sorry to hear they are being phased out - thank goodness they will always be there in FSX or "real" navigation would be lost.

 

The initial (Phase 1) phase out of VORs, from 2016 to 2020, eliminates 74 VORs across the U.S., out of 1,000 or so that existed in 2016. Phase 2, from 2021-2025, will phase out an additional 234 VORs. But that should leave around 700 still available, pretty much the whole country at 5,000 AGL and above. At https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/navigation/the-faa-is-shutting-down-308-vors/ you can see maps of the two phases and much more information about the phase down, including maintaining the back-up NAV network for when GPS needs help or isn't available.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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If you have not tried it yet as an alternative and excellent replacement to the Garmin 500 series GPS gauge, get Gavin Munro's recently updated GPS gauge here in the library. gps_1_8.zip I have been using it since the first release some 5 years ago. IMHO, it is far easier to use than the Garmin and gives info to you at the click of your mouse. The feature you are looking for was recently added to the Map screen at my request and the total remaining distance to your destination airport is right in front of your eyes. No calculating needed on your part. The gauge does it all. It counts down the mileage as you fly. Great for determining when to start your descent.
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Here is the author's explanation about the TAWS feature taken from the documentation page of the gauge.

 

"The Terrain Awareness (TAWS) Map shown on the next page is a map which measures

terrain altitudes from the height of the aircraft rather than from sea level. The system used on

this aircraft follows the colour scheme specified for a Boeing 737-800 however does not have

the same accuracy as colours can only be defined in FSX per 1000 feet instead of 250 feet as

needed by the specification.

This TAWS map shows terrain from 2000 feet below the aircraft to 1000 feet below the

aircraft in Green, from 1000 feet below to 2000 feet above the aircraft is Yellow, and Terrain

more than 2000 feet above the aircraft as Red. If the aircraft is more than 2000 feet above

terrain the display is the same as the monochrome map. The specification states that the Green

should only extend to 500 feet below the aircraft (or 250 feet if gear extended) and the Yellow

above that.

The TAWS icon can only be clicked on after first clicking the TERR icon. The map will

reload with every 500 foot change in aircraft altitude and the screen will go blank during the

reload. It can be slow to load and temperamental. When flying at high altitude the map will

have the same appearance as the standard monochrome map but will still go blank from time

to time when reloading."

 

All I can add is download/install it and see if it is "finicky" or not!

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A really good, free flight planner for FSX and other sims is Little Navmap.

 

https://albar965.github.io/littlenavmap.html

 

Mick

 

LOVE Little NavMap ! Also has Little Nav Connect where you can run it on a remote Computer !

FSX. As of now I have 3 laptops all utilizing & linked to FSX, 1 - 32" TV for Gages, 40" TV for Main View. Saitek Pro Flight Control System. Am building a new rig and flight deck. Most likely going to X-Plane 11 for Sim. Also might buy MFS2020 for the pretty Pictures.
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