Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: flying the Beechcraft Bonanza

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    52

    Default flying the Beechcraft Bonanza

    I had not done a flight sim in years and in January bought MSFS 2020 to run on a new-built PC. I have been learning to fly with the new system. I worked thru the Flight Training series for the light planes. Which was a very nice way to get started. I had the most trouble with landing and flying the traffic pattern. So I have got to where I am comfortable on the Cessna 152 and 172 and wanted to step up to next challenge. So I chose the Bonanza as a faster plane. Also I had seen on Youtube the story of the young pilot who did solo around the world in the Bonanza. The first flights were not good, but I am getting a better feel for it now. I have an observation and a question on this plane as modeled in MSFS. I make a landing approach and get lined up on a reasonable height and distance. And I have gear down and flaps going to full. As the speed drops below 80 kts, it seems to sink rapidly. And unless I am very quick on the throttle back up to 50 -60 % throttle, I am fighting stall warnings and sinking to the ground short of the runway. It seems like it does not glide down to a landing well at all.
    And the question. The Bonanza has an extra control for the engine power. It has a throttle like usual, then a second lever for 'RPM'. The checklist says to set it to max rpm. Is this or prop pitch or what? I did not see any explanation. I don't understand the relationship, and I don't know the keys for changing it in flight without having to zoom down to the lever to click on it. Any advice would be most helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Westminster, CO
    Posts
    7,488

    Default

    And I have gear down and flaps going to full. As the speed drops below 80 kts, it seems to sink rapidly. And unless I am very quick on the throttle back up to 50 -60 % throttle, I am fighting stall warnings and sinking to the ground short of the runway. It seems like it does not glide down to a landing well at all.
    A good observation. The real life Bonanza is a very clean airplane until you drop the gear, then the drag from the gear will slow you quickly. Add full flaps and you MUST carry quite a bit of power to maintain altitude, and even with a normal landing descent you need to carry power unless you want a very steep descent (nose way down, of course). Even the C-152 and C-172 with full flaps are fairly draggy, especially the earlier C-172 with a full 40º of flaps, but you can now appreciate why retractable landing gear is a big advantage for many aircraft.

    And the question. The Bonanza has an extra control for the engine power. It has a throttle like usual, then a second lever for 'RPM'. The checklist says to set it to max rpm. Is this or prop pitch or what?
    That extra control is, indeed, a propeller control. The throttle and prop controls together control the power setting. And as you have read, that prop control should be set full forward (max RPM) for takeoff and for landing. And normally when you are reducing power for climb you'll bring the throttle back to, say, 25" of manifold pressure and THEN bring the prop back to perhaps 2500 RPM for the climb.

    Once you've gotten near your destination and are ready to descend, you'll reduce power again for the descent, usually just reducing the throttle here (depending on the settings chosen for cruise), and as you level off you'll bring the throttle back up somewhat. However, during the before landing checklist you'll want to bring the prop back up to max RPM and just use the throttle from that point.

    The controllable pitch propeller (the Bonanza and most current aircraft use a constant speed propeller -- there are other types, though) has a governor that tries to keep a constant RPM regardless of the throttle setting, so you set the prop by the tachometer to whatever RPM is appropriate at the moment.

    As a kind of reference point for you, my F-33A Bonanza Pilot's Operating Manual shows a chart of power settings for cruise. This table is for standard conditions, that is, temp at sea level == 59º F, altimeter setting == 29.92, humidity 0%, temp decrease 3.5º F for every 1000 feet increase in altitude:

    ALT
    OAT* Engine Man. Fuel Flow TAS
    Feet
    Deg. F
    RPM
    Pressure
    GPH
    MPH
    SL 59 2500 24.4 15.4 188
    1000 55 2500 24.2 15.4 190
    2000 52 2500 23.8 15.4 192
    3000 48 2500 23.7 15.4 194
    4000 45 2500 23.5 15.4 195
    5000 41 2500 23.3 15.4 198
    6000 38 2500 23.0 15.4 199
    7000 34 2500 22.5 15.2 200
    8000 31 2500 21.7 14.5 199


    The above table is a portion of the table in the manual for 75% power (that's maximum continuous power for the F-33A), showing values for standard conditions through 8000 feet. Note the changes in temperature, manifold pressure (MP), and TAS as altitude increases. You can see the results of less drag at higher altitude. with the changes in TAS and, at 8000 feet a very noticeable drop in fuel flow, which also means it's no longer able to maintain 75% power. The chart also has entries for ISA (the sea level standard) plus and minus 38º F (20º C). There are also charts for 65%, 55% and 45% power settings, and they all go up through 15,000 feet.

    Hope this helps.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    UK North East
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Excellent choice for further development. I did most of my RL flying on fixed-pitch singles but did have some experience on VP and multi-engined aircraft.
    I gave up RW flying years ago (became too expensive at the time) and have only recently come back to it via the excellent MSFS. I started, as the OP, with the basic simple stuff to get my wings back but then decided I was going to work my way up to more sophisticated aircraft, gradually whilst I "mastered" each one and chose the Bonanza as a first step.
    A lovely aircraft to operate, even better with the third-party update, and currently my "go to" choice, although I have started to experiment with the CJ4 (now that's a learning curve!). Have done a lot of "hours" mainly on sightseeing tours in parts of the world I'm never going to visit in real life!

    PS There's a turbo version now too, awesome performance!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Thanks for the response. Very good info on flying the Bonanza. So the final approach is better with power on a fair amount, like 30% or so. I have to learn the markings on the control, I'm not on the same PC as the Fight sim right now. When trying to fly at lower cruise settings does the RPM setting get changed to less than 2500?
    Also does the behavior on the simulation match the real plane fairly well? I have seen posting to suggest some planes seem to be modeled better and others not so well. Which is why mods happen i assume.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    52

    Default

    reply to Terry. Thanks for the info and the encouragement. I am still getting the feel of it and holding a good straight approach to the runway is still a challenge. The feel for the controls and the response takes a good touch. I am flying from an XBOX controller at this point so not quite ideal. You mention third-party update. I think I read a comment on an older post talking about that, but I don't know where one would install such an update. It said they were in .zip download form.

    And a turboprop version too! Something to look forward to.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Westminster, CO
    Posts
    7,488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patinthedesert View Post
    ...When trying to fly at lower cruise settings does the RPM setting get changed to less than 2500?
    Also does the behavior on the simulation match the real plane fairly well? I have seen posting to suggest some planes seem to be modeled better and others not so well. Which is why mods happen i assume.
    At 65% power on a standard day the RPM is listed as 2300 until reaching 10,000 feet when it goes to 2500. At 55% power the RPM is listed as 2100 until reaching 10,000 feet when it goes to 2300. And at 45% it is 2100 all the way through the chart. Of course the MP varies as altitude and power percent change. So basically you can choose the RPM (normally not above 2500 for cruise) and MP (not to exceed the RPM, that is, no more than 23" for 2300 RPM or 21" for 2100 RPM, but there are exceptions to that too).

    I don't have the new sim so I don't know how well the MSFS Bonanza matches the real ones, but I have a Carenado model in FSX and in P3D V2 that, with a friend's mods, does very well indeed, but wasn't great before his mods.

    -----------

    You might think of the propeller as a transmission, with low pitch (high RPM) being a low gear for efficiency in getting started and working hard (climbs) and the higher pitch (lower RPMs) being higher gears, making for more efficiency (and quieter) at higher speeds such as cruise, including reduced fuel burn. The analogy doesn't hold up more than superficially, of course, but it might help a bit.
    Last edited by lnuss; 02-12-2021 at 11:40 AM.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    UK North East
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patinthedesert View Post
    And a turboprop version too! Something to look forward to.
    Ermm - no. A turbo-prop is a different animal entirely, basically a jet engine with a prop.
    It's turbo-charged, which has the same effect as on a car engine - more power which translates to climbing higher and faster. Suggest you leave this alone until you've mastered the normally aspirated version - quite fast enough to learn on!

    The improvement is here - https://flightsim.to/file/1056/g36-improvement-project Once you've downloaded the.zip file extract it to a new folder, say on your desktop called Bonanza Improvements, then copy that folder into your Community Folder. Much more realistic performance.

    Whilst your at it, another good addition is this - https://github.com/Working-Title-MSF...000-v0.3.4.zip - which is a (vast) improvement on the Garmin G1000 system fitted to the Bonanza. After downloading again unzip (I'd put it in the same folder as above) and it goes into your C/F as well. Learning that system is quite a steep learning curve too but well worth it - I "tour" with the Bonanza and use it all the time so I can spend more time looking out of the window! (Incidentally it's the same system as fitted to the C172S, the upgrade will sort that out too).

    Take your time and enjoy it!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by terrylawdinn View Post
    Ermm - no. A turbo-prop is a different animal entirely, basically a jet engine with a prop.
    It's turbo-charged, which has the same effect as on a car engine - more power which translates to climbing higher and faster. Suggest you leave this alone until you've mastered the normally aspirated version - quite fast enough to learn on!

    The improvement is here - https://flightsim.to/file/1056/g36-improvement-project Once you've downloaded the.zip file extract it to a new folder, say on your desktop called Bonanza Improvements, then copy that folder into your Community Folder. Much more realistic performance.
    Thanks for the info. I think I have located where the Community Folder goes. My software is installed under the Steam folders. I bought and downloaded there when I got started. I'm familiar with Steam for some other items.
    No turbo-prop? Well a turbo-charged engine is good too. Should be especially for performance at altitude. I can get there eventually.

    Pat

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patinthedesert View Post
    No turbo-prop? Well a turbo-charged engine is good too. Should be especially for performance at altitude. I can get there eventually.

    Pat
    In real life there are turboprop conversions available for the Bonanza, do a search for TurbineAir Bonanza, Propjet Bonanza and Allison Turbine Bonanza and depending on the engine fitted increases the cruising speeds to between 215 and 250 knots.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Westminster, CO
    Posts
    7,488

    Default

    In addition to conversions, a factory turbo-charged version of the A-36 was available from '79-'81 (A36TC) and from 1982 to 2002 (B36TC), but never a turboprop. There are at least 3 companies that have done turboprop conversions and at least a couple that have done turbo-normalizing conversions (maintain sea-level MP up to critical altitude).

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Carenado Beechcraft Bonanza V35
    By B767 in forum FS2002
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 03:49 PM
  2. Me Want Bonanza, Me Want Bonanza:-)
    By hangar in forum DreamFleet General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-18-2004, 06:27 PM
  3. Beechcraft Bonanza F33A flying around Montreal
    By crashking in forum MSFS Screen Shot Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-13-2004, 06:24 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-16-2002, 07:10 PM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-11-2002, 05:14 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •