ATC & ILS Issues

Happy New Year Simmers.

 

I'm not sure if I'm the only one experiencing this, but there are two issues i'm trying to find a solution for. The first is frequent directions changes by ATC when using IFR flight plan. Using this example, i'm flying heading 130 then told to turn left 095, then as soon as I've completed that turn, then told to turn back to 130.

 

Second issue is whenever I select the runways for ILS, it never lines me up correctly. I'm usually 5-10 degrees to the left of the runway.

 

Has anyone else experienced these issues and is there a way to resolve them?

 

Thanks in advance.

The heading switches are fairly normal because it also happens in FSX! Is it one runway or all runways where you are not lined up correctly? ILS at some runways are offset.

As the zipper says, that's pretty normal for the sim, though not for the real world. It happens because the default ATC doesn't do vectors very well, among other things. As he also says, some of the ILS courses are offset a bit. Perhaps if you mention which airport(s), which runways and how much your heading is off we could check whether the ones you that don't align are the ones that have an offset approach.

 

I'm usually 5-10 degrees to the left of the runway.

With where as a reference point? Or are you saying that your heading is off by 5º-10º? Your actual description might indicate that the DG (Directional Gyro) isn't properly set, or maybe you are using True north as a reference rather than magnetic (which is what runways are) -- if that's the case then the amount your heading would be off would vary quite a bit as you travel east/west across the country.

 

So some further info might help a diagnosis.

The heading switches are fairly normal because it also happens in FSX! Is it one runway or all runways where you are not lined up correctly? ILS at some runways are offset.

 

It's all runways.

As the zipper says, that's pretty normal for the sim, though not for the real world. It happens because the default ATC doesn't do vectors very well, among other things. As he also says, some of the ILS courses are offset a bit. Perhaps if you mention which airport(s), which runways and how much your heading is off we could check whether the ones you that don't align are the ones that have an offset approach.

 

 

With where as a reference point? Or are you saying that your heading is off by 5º-10º? Your actual description might indicate that the DG (Directional Gyro) isn't properly set, or maybe you are using True north as a reference rather than magnetic (which is what runways are) -- if that's the case then the amount your heading would be off would vary quite a bit as you travel east/west across the country.

 

So some further info might help a diagnosis.[/quote

 

All Runways with ILS. A good example is landing at PHOG Runways 2. I was about 5 degrees off. Definitely understand that wind could cause the deviation, but I can't imagine that it would happen consistently with every flight

Hi,

 

Just did a quick landing with the stock C172 on PHOG ILS RWY2. Didn't use ATC, set up NAV1 to 110.10 and a course of 24 Magnetic. I had a normal landing... straight in, no offset.

What aircraft were you flying? Is the sim set to use magnetic headings, maybe it accidentally got set to true headings?

 

Regards,

DDP.

Definitely understand that wind could cause the deviation, but I can't imagine that it would happen consistently with every flight

If you don't have wind set to 0 then it could. Once again, you haven't mentioned having the DG properly set, or whether your system is set for magnetic vs true headings. Also, it's possible you're holding a bit of rudder or that your rudder didn't center, if you have a rudder control. Since there's no offset at PHOG, it has to be something in the way you're flying or in the way your system is set up, but since we can't see what's happening you'll need to provide more information -- we cannot troubleshoot in the blind.

Let me explain this in as simple in terms as possible and show you one of my videos.

 

1) ATC in these Sims is very mundane. I was hoping the new Sim would have better ATC utilizing real procedures, plane stacking rules, and holding patterns among other stuff but no. When you fly ILS and come in for the approach, ATC will have you do the zig zag dance which does get very annoying. But if you think about it, what the computer is doing is trying to get you at a right course for ILS intercept. And that's where point 2 comes in at.

 

2) ATC will have you intercept the ILS beam. It will NOT have you all aligned and fancy like where all you have to do is is press APP and glide right in. What you'll see is you'll intercept the ILS at an angle and once that happens you have to have the ILS frequency already tuned in, runway course set, and the APP button pressed prior to interception. Once you intercept that ILS beam on that angle your plane will automatically then start to bank and align straight with the runway.

 

Now if you do this manually it takes practice. You have to know when to bank at what cross track error from the runway to bank given your GPS, and at what angle on your HSI to bank. I've done this so many damn times I'm practically an expert.

 

Since the ATC is so mundane and can be very annoying, I rarely ever file a flight plan anymore. I just go VFR and play the roll of ATC myself watching my second screen with LittleNavMap. Only on approach I contact ATC for landing. I do this at 30 NM out.

 

Watch this video and you might get an idea on what I'm talking about with angle of interception. In real life it is NOT like this at all. Well, kinda actually.

 

That's an old video and I sucked! Not only that, I was using a camcorder and my chair was a POS.

 

PS: In the video I kept using the stupid word "distinguished" and I meant extinguished. As in the light for heading or what ever turned off because ILS took over via APP. LOL! I had the right word in mind, it just came out wrong. At least I didn't crash...

Edited January 3, 2021 by CRJ_simpilot

Thanks for the update. How would I change the Directional Gyro to make sure its' set to Magnetic North instead of True North?

Hi,

 

Just did a quick landing with the stock C172 on PHOG ILS RWY2. Didn't use ATC, set up NAV1 to 110.10 and a course of 24 Magnetic. I had a normal landing... straight in, no offset.

What aircraft were you flying? Is the sim set to use magnetic headings, maybe it accidentally got set to true headings?

 

Regards,

DDP.

 

Thanks for the reply. How would I know if my Heading was changed from magnetic to True?

Let me explain this in as simple in terms as possible and show you one of my videos.

 

1) ATC in these Sims is very mundane. I was hoping the new Sim would have better ATC utilizing real procedures, plane stacking rules, and holding patterns among other stuff but no. When you fly ILS and come in for the approach, ATC will have you do the zig zag dance which does get very annoying. But if you think about it, what the computer is doing is trying to get you at a right course for ILS intercept. And that's where point 2 comes in at.

 

2) ATC will have you intercept the ILS beam. It will NOT have you all aligned and fancy like where all you have to do is is press APP and glide right in. What you'll see is you'll intercept the ILS at an angle and once that happens you have to have the ILS frequency already tuned in, runway course set, and the APP button pressed prior to interception. Once you intercept that ILS beam on that angle your plane will automatically then start to bank and align straight with the runway.

 

Now if you do this manually it takes practice. You have to know when to bank at what cross track error from the runway to bank given your GPS, and at what angle on your HSI to bank. I've done this so many damn times I'm practically an expert.

 

Since the ATC is so mundane and can be very annoying, I rarely ever file a flight plan anymore. I just go VFR and play the roll of ATC myself watching my second screen with LittleNavMap. Only on approach I contact ATC for landing. I do this at 30 NM out.

 

Watch this video and you might get an idea on what I'm talking about with angle of interception. In real life it is NOT like this at all. Well, kinda actually.

 

That's an old video and I sucked! Not only that, I was using a camcorder and my chair was a POS.

 

PS: In the video I kept using the stupid word "distinguished" and I meant extinguished. As in the light for heading or what ever turned off because ILS took over via APP. LOL! I had the right word in mind, it just came out wrong. At least I didn't crash...

 

Thank you for the reply. LOL it was informative.

The only way I know to check if you are using true or magnetic headings is to sit on a runway with an ILS known to be right down the middle (i.e. at most large US airports) and check the heading on the gauges (or in the red text on the screen by using Shift z) to the runway's ILS heading in the airport's description in World/Map. If they match you are using the correct magnetic headings.

The only way I know to check if you are using true or magnetic headings is to sit on a runway with an ILS known to be right down the middle (i.e. at most large US airports) and check the heading on the gauges (or in the red text on the screen by using Shift z) to the runway's ILS heading in the airport's description in World/Map. If they match you are using the correct magnetic headings.

 

Thanks! How do you fix it, if it's not?

Thanks! How do you fix it, if it's not?

 

Turn the knob to adjust!

 

The mag/true heading should be a setting in your Sim.

Hi,

 

Normally, there should be a keyboard shortcut for this.

Go into Controls - Assignments, choose Instrument Commands from the dropdown and check Heading Indicator (Reset).

And while you're there also check Altimeter (Reset), to autotune the altimeter pressure.

 

Mine are set to "D" and "B" (don't remember if that's the default). So your gyro and altimeter are realigned at the press of a key...

 

And about ATC, I follow the RW procedures and ignore the ATC commands. I only use it to keep the runway clear when I come in to land.

 

DDP.

Edited January 6, 2021 by DirkDP

Hi,

 

Normally, there should be a keyboard shortcut for this.

Go into Controls - Assignments, choose Instrument Commands from the dropdown and check Heading Indicator (Reset).

And while you're there also check Altimeter (Reset), to autotune the altimeter pressure.

 

Mine are set to "D" and "B" (don't remember if that's the default). So your gyro and altimeter are realigned at the press of a key...

 

And about ATC, I follow the RW procedures and ignore the ATC commands. I only use it to keep the runway clear when I come in to land.

 

DDP.

 

Thank you so much!

If your instruments are routinely displaying true headings instead of magnetic, I don't know of a setting in FS9 that will change that (there is a setting for true vs indicated airspeed, but that is not this).

 

The usual reason for this problem is an addon scenery that (for some reason unknown to me) causes FS to stop reading the default magdec.bgl file, which provides all of the magnetic headings in the world. This file is found by default in the Scenery/BASE/scenery folder.

 

If this is true, removing that addon scenery should fix it.

 

A workaround to avoid that is to place a copy of the magdec.bgl file into it's own scenery folder (i.e. Addon Scenery/Keep On Top/scenery), and add the Keep on Top folder as a scenery layer in the Scenery Library. This layer should be kept at the top of the listing at all times.

 

Then the headings should go back to magnetic.

 

Hope this helps,

If your instruments are routinely displaying true headings instead of magnetic, I don't know of a setting in FS9 that will change that (there is a setting for true vs indicated airspeed, but that is not this).

 

The usual reason for this problem is an addon scenery that (for some reason unknown to me) causes FS to stop reading the default magdec.bgl file, which provides all of the magnetic headings in the world. This file is found by default in the Scenery/BASE/scenery folder.

 

If this is true, removing that addon scenery should fix it.

 

A workaround to avoid that is to place a copy of the magdec.bgl file into it's own scenery folder (i.e. Addon Scenery/Keep On Top/scenery), and add the Keep on Top folder as a scenery layer in the Scenery Library. This layer should be kept at the top of the listing at all times.

 

Then the headings should go back to magnetic.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Thank you for the reply. WHere would I find the magdec.bgl file?

in most steam gauge airplanes (Till later this month when I start flying the G1000 SP models) gyroscopic procession exists. some worse than others. we use the magnetic compass to check and realign the heading indicator. note that in almost every case the compass is always Magnetic. wind directions are in True, as are the standard US sectional charts. you find the isogonic lines of deviation and add or subtract them to the TC. I'm not sure to what extent FS9 simulates this as I don't fly GA too often in FS9.

It's right in my original post - Scenery/BASE/scenery

in most steam gauge airplanes...gyroscopic procession exists, some worse than others. we use the magnetic compass to check and realign the heading indicator. note that in almost every case the compass is always Magnetic.

 

Gyroscopic precession exists, if you didn't disable it in the menus, in all of the gyros that are not slaved to a flux valve (thus the "most" above), which senses the magnetic field and sends a correction to the DG. A compass is ALWAYS magnetic, by definition, but a gyro compass (Directional Gyro, including in the HSI) which is not slaved can be set to anything (the "D" key works in FS9 and FSX).

Gyroscopic precession exists, if you didn't disable it in the menus, in all of the gyros that are not slaved to a flux valve

 

Hey, Larry! Is that flux valve connected in series or parallel with the flux capacitor? :confused:

It's right in my original post - Scenery/BASE/scenery

 

Thanks....Not sure how I missed that.

Hey, Larry! Is that flux valve connected in series or parallel with the flux capacitor? :confused:

 

Parallel, of course. :pilot:

 

Actually, a flux valve is a magnetic sensor, usually mounted in the tail, which sends the magnetic directional information to the avionics. I first found out about them when I was in Bomb Nav school, learning to work on the Bombing/Navigational system for the B-47/B-52. In those days it was an analog computer, using servo mechanisms, gear trains, 3-dimensional cams, etc. and tied to the autopilot. The flux valve for it was also mounted in the tail (furthest from magnetic and electronic interference) and fed the Bomb/Nav computer to slave the DG. It also, along with the long. and lat. position, drove a 3-dimensional cam to feed TRUE north into the computer.

 

These days, of course, flux valves feed a digital computer, but serve the same purpose.

 

For more information on this, this site has a much more complete description than mine, also by a former bomb/nav guy -- it's well done: http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/USAFMuseum/ColdWar/BoeingRB47H/index.htm

 

And yes, I was working on the RB-47s also, and attended the same classes he did (different time, of course).

Here's an example of the problem. I started a flight on the active runway @ KSEA and instead of being centered, the plane is several feet to the left of the center line.