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Thread: Article: KerrSpectives - State Of The Sim

  1. #91


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1936 View Post
    I'm having a new PC custom-built for MSFS and don't expct it to be ready for a few weeks yet.
    The Honeycomb Bravo throttle quadrant is due early in December. So I haven't downloaded MSFS yet. I do hope it is in a better state when I do. But it does look as if the TBM 930 will be OK (doering1, above) even there are still problems elsewhere in the sim.
    Congratulations on the forthcoming new computer, I am happy for you! I hope the new sim will be in better shape when your new rig arrives. But, with the current track record of patches fixing fixes, I am not totally convinced of that. This I know, your new rig will also run your current favorite sim better as well. You may find your old sim feels like a dependable new sim as a result, at least until Asobo brings permanent, dependable stability to their product.


  2. #92


    Quote Originally Posted by max327 View Post
    I like the "flat and cardboardy" description for the old sim. The old sims haven't seemed to keep pace with advancements in aircraft like we've seen from A2A, Milviz, Carenado, etc. So I found myself flying around in FSX with these nice planes watching repeating terrain tiles, feeling like something was missing; and what was missing was a realistic representation of the world. So with MSFS we have the world, now we just need the planes. MSFS + bugs fixed + 3rd party aircraft and airports = Flightsim nirvana.
    I can truly identify with your thoughts, especially when it comes to repeating scenery tiles, with roads drawn over those tiles in a totally unrealistic way.

    No question, MSFS represents a quantum leap in the presentation of the world. However, there are places in MSFS where the repeating tiles and inappropriate roads still exist. This is where the Bing images are clouded over, or incomplete. In such places the old FSX-style default is back, and when these synthetic areas stand out in contrast to the new scenery around them, it is all the more disappointing.

    I agree with your definition of fightsim nirvana, but I suspect it will take several years to attain it. The patches currently seem to be compounding their errors at times, and if new bugs are continually introduced, the E.T.A. for nirvana may be pushed further into the future.

    In the meantime, there is an alternate. While I no longer fly P3d over synthetic scenery, I have found great pleasure in flying that sim with my A2A fleet over ORBX True Earth products. However, I did not touch that sim for the first two months of MSFS. It has only been with the most recent two or three patches that immersion killing distractions have appeared in MSFS to the point where I have started splitting my flightsim time between the two platforms. Perhaps that is a very significant commentary on the current direction of Asobo's development approach.


  3. #93


    Quote Originally Posted by Mawingo View Post
    Great article, very timely. I didn't have the computing power for P3D, then finally went 64bit at about the same time MSFS was announced. So I hung out for MSFS and dived straight in early. Obviously just gorgeous to look at, the VFR flight is so much more challenging and pretty, but (like many stock sim aircraft) the planes were pretty basic and 'plastic'. For someone who now really enjoys some of the more realistic planes in FSX (A2A, Majestic, Aerosoft, Milviz, etc) it's a real frustration to have such a fabulous world to fly in, but do it in the equivalent of an electric self-driving car! So my new computer stomps all over the frame rates in FSX and I get to really enjoy all the $$$s I spent on those add-ons.... (sigh)
    Hello, thank you for the response.

    I used FSX right up to spring this year, when finally I was the beneficiary of the gift of a 64-bit computer. Only then did I buy P3d 4.5, although was dismayed when version 5 was released the very next week! The advance I felt in P3d over FSX was considerable. It put a big smile on my face, and I gradually started to add new versions of my A2A fleet. I then added the ORBX True Earth products for the entire UK, and was as happy as I could be when I got my all time favorite (Just Flight Chipmunk) operating over a photorealistic Britain. And this undisturbed happiness lasted for only a few months, until MSFS2020 was released earlier than expected.

    I bought MSFS2020 the first day it came out. I went for the middle version of the product since I was not sure it would run on my system. It did, and it was absolutely incredible. I hardly came up for air for a month at least! The new representation of the world was amazing. The new approach to processing light and atmospherics just sealed it. I figured I was totally done with P3d, even though I had spent more than $500 on it over just the previous few months.

    And then the patches started destroying it.

    I love the new sim, but I hate the feeling that I am playing Russian Roulette every two weeks. I have watched them downgrade LOD, ruin (and then fix) the water, murder the night lighting in rural areas, screw up the control sensitivities, and more. And as of the latest patch (the one after the patch featured in the article), MSFS has stutters that make it run worse than P3d.

    And so, I am now splitting my time between MSFS and P3d 4.5. I never expected that to happen, I thought I was done with the older sim forever, but now I am very glad I did not impulsively delete it when I installed MSFS2020. Right now, I fly MSFS about 90% of the time, and P3d about 10%. As to where that equation will move to, it is entirely dependent on Asobo. If they keep killing immersion, the P3d use will increase. If they stabilize the product and keep it stable for at east three months, then I will be back to 100% use of MSFS.


  4. #94


    Quote Originally Posted by OldGezzer View Post
    Arf Arf Arf. Bite Bite then Bite harder, Finally lifting my leg in disgust at the attempts by Asobo to fix an already broken product..
    Thank you for giving me a bloody good laugh! Unfortunately I feel the same as you.

    I loved the new product on release, but each patch seems to screw it up in ways that make it incrementally worse than what they gave us on August 18th. Three weeks ago the patch messed up the night lighting in rural areas, I was disgusted, but resigned myself to daytime flights only. Then last week the patch did something to the LOD again, and now I have trees popping OUT of existence the closer I get to them. Now in some areas the daytime flights are immersion killers too. So, for the past week I have been splitting my time between my older sim and this one. Not what I expected.

    I WANT to delete my old sim! I WANT to fully embrace MSFS and never look back. But Asobo seem to be hell bent on keeping that as a yet-future dream for now.


  5. #95


    Quote Originally Posted by quint60 View Post
    It’s a business first, right? It’s obviously a huge project, I would guess that Asobo probably got to the point that either they needed to generate cash flow to offset/continue their investment or in order to hedge against the risks associated with COVID. I doubt that the rapid release was part of the original rollout strategy. And I’m sure it wasn’t an idea cast by the actual developers. I too am frustrated by first itirations and feel tricked in to paying to play Beta tester. But, maybe that was the only way it would have come out at all? Maybe the project would have financially collapsed if it wasn’t shot out to the online stores? I don’t know, maybe I’m giving them too much relief, but I feel like they should be given the benefit of the doubt at least.
    This is a very very interesting perspective, thank you for sharing it. Obviously I agree with everything you have said. It is a mammoth product, and it was released far too early. Up to now I have thought it was haste, or the desire to recover investment. But what if you are onto something? What if releasing it early was the only choice other than getting it canned by Microsoft? That is a different take, and you might be right. Ultimately, our Perspectives/KerrSpectives are somewhat based on conjecture.


  6. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Blackburn, Lancashire, United Kingdom.


    Sorry Ken as someone who flies ga I hve to disagree with you could never go back to X Plane it's like going from a Ferrari to a Standard 10!

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Winchester, KY


    Read some interesting forum points on aviation sites (not flight sim) a couple of months ago. This product appears to me NOT to be aimed at the FS community but rather at the large real aircraft flight simulator companies looking to train airline and military flyers and make a desktop sim suitable for general aviation that will qualify for FAA cockpit time. It will offer eventually much more than Prepar3d, which I guess is the standard for desktop simulation in the "real world". "Flying" Magazine talked about, from a GA aspect, MSFS2020 as a relatively cheap and effective way to get GA pilots to invest in control yokes, multiple screens, etc so they can get accredited time in a simulator without the huge expense of going somewhere like Redbird. If this is the case, rolling out the sim and letting the community do the "beta", including what works in patches and what doesn't work, makes a lot of business sense.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Austin, TX


    Boy oh Boy that Gentleman nailed it to the wall. I pre purchased the whole nine yards before the release date in August.
    Knowing coming from Microsoft that this would be a winner, topping everything that has come out so far. Boy did I get busted...I have yet to be able to fly an airplane based on Asobo's miscalculation on what a CH yoke and pedals are supposed to do. As they perfectly do in Prepar 3D. So until I see some improvement along the way, its on the shelf for quite awhile.

  9. #99


    The problem here is that many people appear to have a short memory. EVERY sim that has come out in the last 25 years has been a train-wreck in certain respects depending on what your individual experience or focus was. The key thing of note is that it is almost always worked out in time.

    While I agree that there is a lot of items that could be sorted, at core this is still an MVP (software terminology) that does most things very well. There is only so long you can run with a product of this magnitude without drawing in some return on the investment; especially considering that the feature list (present and announced) is a magnitude larger than any other type of product. That's not because they prefer to do it this way - it's because that's what they need to do to survive.

    So while it is easy to shout from the rooftops and say 'shut it all down until it's ready' - you are pretty much telling Microsoft/Asobo to kill the project entirely and walk away - which leads to:

    A) Reality-check: they're never going to do that - they need to pay the bills and keep people employed to continue to build and perfect the product. I, for one, would like them to keep working as there's plenty to be happy about despite the shortcomings. I'm not alone in this opinion.
    B) I actually think they are doing very well by their product with these multiple updates. Yes things have gone wrong but at least they're committed - what else could you ask?
    C) Would you rather not have it at all than in its present state - because that's basically what you're saying.

    For those who would rather kick over the Monopoly board and return back to another sim product I say 'Great!' - there is plenty out there to keep people happy. AT LEAST YOU HAVE A CHOICE! The joy of competition is that Microsoft and Asobo will always need to respond to competition and will continue to improve upon FS2020 until they can see that consumers are happy (enough).

    However, I would put out that - time and time again - I have seen this EXACT argument on the release of every new version of a major sim product. Sometimes its warranted. Sometimes it's because people are looking for any reason they can find to justify not committing themselves to 'the new shiny' because they are so heavily invested in an older product. The bottom line is: It doesn't matter. Do what you want. Vote with your wallet.

    But bear in mind that a LOT of people ARE happy - quite happy, in fact. MSFS2020 is one of the most streamed experiences on Youtube right now - and that's for a reason. The big picture view on MSFS2020 is that it's still a very successful, very rewarding product.

    Does it have problems? Yes
    Can they be fixed? Yes

    If you are absolutely fed up or disappointed, my suggestion is to step back and embrace your respective, trusted sims until such time that you feel MSFS2020 is up to your snuff. That time WILL come - whether you choose to return or not.

    The choice is yours to make.
    Last edited by rabbitc; 12-07-2020 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #100


    I read this with interest and can only concur. Despite all the promises well more in suggestion than ever in writing, this product is in simple terms - unfit for purpose and in my view never will be. It is a game not a flight simulator and it is built upon the premise of the ever connected world via the internet. Four months into the release we have not a single addon in terms of any aircraft from any reputable developer, a few sceneries and that is about all. Can we get any decent addons - I doubt it and here is why. When Aseobo put this together they failed to understand (or deliberately chose to ignore) the intricacy and modelling demands for a full interactive flight simulator model, they stripped down and modified the coding to fit into a gaming scenario, where you have limited but highly graphical repetitive functionality. There is no satisfactory method to port across legacy aircraft that work and that is a major defect because very few if any well spend the time and effort to completely modify the models so that they do work in this game. Yes the graphics look amazing yes the world looks amazing but that is all functionally it is a dead duck! Seen this all before it was called Flight! I deleted it from my system a short time ago and that is where it will stay in the memory banks of yet another MS wonder product full of bugs, incomplete and dissapointing.

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