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How to navigate properly using VOR's and DME's help ?


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I fly the 172 (non glass) a lot. After days I have figured out how to tune the nav radios but where do I get to see distance information ? I can get the bearings ok, but it's a bit useless without distance (of course unless you use 2 VOR's and triangulate). But why should I have to do that ? Where can I see the distance please anyone ?

I have a more basic problem with the glass cockpits of things like the Daher and Citation. I don't even know how to tune the nav radios in those, so I can't navigate at all in those.

 

Got to go, I've got the Panama Canal coming into view !

Any help would be appreciated.

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It's been many years but in one of the previous Microsoft Flight Simulator releases there was a VOR tutorial I remember taking. There is no distance information being broadcast, but you can still navigate. You do have two VOR radios. What they want you to do is tune into the next two VOR points. You fly towards the first bearing until your second one has the correct bearing indicated. Then you start flying towards the second one and replace the first one with the third one, and onwards.

 

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That's because most of them are VORTAC's...but not all.

As time goes by equipments are modernized or replaced by new ones.

In the 70s DME was a rarity, only main international airports had them. You could say 20%

In the 80s 40%

90s 60%

2000 70%

2010 80%

 

So it depends when you were born and started flying...is what gives the impression that “all VORs have DME” :)

“Reality is an illusion, one today, another one tomorrow”

Kapitan

Anything I say is...not as serious as you think

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And in the 60s VORs were a rarity and DME virtually non existant, mostly ADF

In the 50s and prior ADF were a high tech instrument, its predecessor were simply radio AM stations.

You switched the dial (rotating dial as an old radio) and when you hear the music or the guy talking, yep, thats the station, an arrow indicated its estimated direction. Morse code beeps came later

 

The first radio type gave the direction of the station based on a fixed 360 rose, relative direction from your heading, which required further calculations, then came the Omni directional Beacon Indicator, which gave a real direction from your actual heading

 

Planes had 2 adf , in flight plan you would select waypoints to mark your position that were an intersection of two stations. Example you follow straight to one but to know where you are you mark a 90 degrees from the arrow of a second station. Also done with VOR that has no dme

 

In the 50s (all thru the 70s) transatlantic airliners had a navigator. As you know there are no ADF in the sea so during the ocean crossing your position an heading had to be determined by the stars by the navigator, using sextants and charts, carefully plotting wind, estimates etc. This was specially true in south Atlantic crossings from Brazil to Africa and then Casablanca and London.

Edited by Kapitan

Kapitan

Anything I say is...not as serious as you think

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So why can't I get distance info on Pole Hill and Otringham ? I have been getting distance info from them for 30 years.

 

Apparently they havent made it available in the steam panels. In the C172 you can check distance in the G530 nearest VOR function, but its not the same thing.

 

Hopefully the Dev MOD at Github.com for C152X and the 172 will soon make it available

 

Paywares will. Carenado Mooney Ovation released this week has DME displayed in vors

Edited by Kapitan

Kapitan

Anything I say is...not as serious as you think

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Hi Johnclift

Yes I can understand your concern about VOR-navigation in FS2020 and I have similar problems like you. I do not understand the discussion about VOR's with or without DME in this thread. I think your main question is, how the VOR-information is show (or better mostly not shown) on navigation displays in the FS2020 aircraft.

I also like to do semi-automatic flight, also in airliners and not just let the autopilot follow FMS-flightplans.

What I see is the following (example Airbus 320Neo, but applies partly also to other airliners):

- I can enter frequencies and course in the FMS (RAD/NAV-page) for VOR1/VOR2 and ILS

- I can activate VOR1/VOR2 in the glareshield (A320/B747) or a menu button on ND (B787)

However, I have following on the ND:

- frequency NAV1/2 is not correctly shown (only 1 digit after point, instead of 2 digit)

- nowhere on the ND's you see any DME information (even if VOR does have DME)

- in mode NAV you do not see any needle (VOR1/2) on the ND, in mode VOR you only see VOR1 needle with course deviation, but not VOR2 needle

 

I know that VOR/DME info is correctly available in the sim because for example in the KingAir 350 I managed to find the Nav input and both needles show on the Garmin glass cockpit display, I think also DME is shown there (have to check again).

 

The B747 is similar (or even same) as A320 example described above, in the B787 I did not even find a mode selector for the Nav Display, so there I cannot see any VOR/DME info on the ND.

 

I hope I did not miss anything, but I guess the navigation display has to be improved in next update.

 

Walter

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Yes, it's DME and also the needles in some navigation displays (for me mainly the airliners).

 

Mind you, the basics are there in the sim, as for example in the King Air 350 I really can activate VOR1 and VOR2, showing me the needles on the compass rose in the Garmin Glass Cockpit display, and it shows also for both VOR1 and VOR2 the distance measuring.

 

I just think a lot of essentials are not finalized yet and I really hope for more updates regarding navigation in the airliners.

 

I believe the potential of FS2020 is great, the scenery (out of the box!) is great and all places I visited so far are easily recognizable in VFR.

 

Walter

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