FS9 and it's ILS runways.

I use RAF Valley a lot.

The ILS runway is 14 and the ILS is "live",but Fs always gives a "visual" approach,even to the twice daily Eastern Airlines

Cardiff-Valley-Cardiff Jetstream 31 .

14 is the base end and is the RW runway in use 90% of the time at Valley,the prevailing wind is usually from the South,

Fs however much prefers to use the opposing end,32,unless conditions are IMC but even then gives a "visual" onto 14.

Is there a way to "tune"Fs9 to use 14 and give ILS approaches to so equipped a/c's at all?

I use FSrealWXlite for real time weather.

Hi,

While FS has an ILS frequency for the runway, apparently no one has created an ILS *approach* for that runway. Thus ATC gives a visual approach, and does not prioritize that end. ADE can create such an approach, although it's not a "single click" kind of thing for existing ILSs. If this ILS is not from stock it could be deleted and then re-added, at which point ADE will offer an Add ILS Approach checkbox to the Add ILS dialog box.

Miggers,

Wind direction remains the main reason for vectoring aircraft to a specific runway but you cannot just alter it and expect all your (AI) flights to immediately react. However, the following explanation, based on the default FS9 vectoring system, could be strongly influenced by your FSrealWXlite software.

If you are watching approaching AI aircraft at RAF Valley itself, e.g. after you have opened a flight there, I suggest that you change the wind direction so that your preferred ILS approaches will be adhered to accordingly. However, you must realize that as soon as you've changed the wind direction, you must immediately save your flight. Only after you re-open that saved flight, will your (AI) aircraft take heed of the new wind direction.

If you are flying to RAF Valley yourself then you must change the wind direction at RAF Valley and as soon as you have done that you should save your flight at your departure airport. Wind direction is namely not saved as part of any airport scenery but is part of the saved flight data and is only valid for either one of them.

When you subsequently re-open that saved flight at your departure airport the saved wind direction at your RAF Valley airport will automatically become valid and your AI aircraft will be behaving accordingly by the time you arrive there yourself.

Changing wind direction at any distant destination airport is done via the drop down map and then scrolling to the airport concerned.

I hope this helps

Regards

Hans

Thank you gentlemen.

Hans,that is something I didn't know,I will try that.

Tom,I have both TTools and ADE.

TTools I am rather familiar with,I think.

ADE,I have not played with yet.

The version of RAF Valley is in the "Just Flight" British Airports,Volume 5,Wales & West Midlands

(the North West Mids is where I live),Shawbury,Ternhill and Cosford are the closest military airfields for me,we holiday a lot on Anglesey (in Wales)so I like to visit Valley quite often.

I assume the JF airports are editable with ADE(they are with TTools),so I'll try Tom's idea of deleting and re-adding the ILS.

*Addition*

I've just run ADE and checked the ILS information.

It seems that Just Flight have aligned everything on the Fs9 Valley.

ADE tells me that (in red)the ILS is stock,the delete button stays unlit,so I assume that it's not "editable" by deletion and re-addition.

It does however tell me that the ILS "beam" has a range of 30 miles,a width of 4.4 miles and a

3 degree glideslope.

Any other ideas?(apart from Hans changing the wind prior to launching)

Miggers,

I took a look at the default AP946130.bgl file in the EURW folder and yes, there is an ILS specified for EGOV RWY-14 but, as Tom already points out, no approaches or any kind of other related data is specified. This results in ATC to vector you for visual approaches only, whatever the wind direction. However, the existing ILS can in fact be used, even although ATC has vectored you or any AI aircraft, for a visual approach. Not very realistic though.

I've been using a program called "Approach creator" for, as it's name already implies, creating missing approach data, which if used correctly, will cause ATC to vector you correctly for a RWY-14 ILS approach but ..... ONLY IF...... your wind direction is then set accordingly.

Yes, default ILS or any other default navigation aids cannot be deleted but can only be moved around to (more) realistic positions, e.g. in third party sceneries.

Good luck

Hans

Hello Hans,

I'll have a look for Approach creator.

The Fs ILS frequency is 109.70 with the identifier of "VY",this was correct upto 2018.

During the summer of 2017,runway 14/32 underwent an upgrade and extension programme associated with the change of basic jet training with the Tucano to the Texan II and the move of 72 Sqn from Linton to centralise all fast jet training on Valley.

In 2018 the ILS frequency was changed to 108.550 and the identifier changed to "I-VY".

The TACAN/DME was retained as "VYL"identifier and the frequency left as 108.40.

PAR/Talkdown is available on both 14/32 and 01/19 with the cross runway,08/26 now being closed for landing/take off and used as a faster way to get from the Hawk pans near the hangars on the Southside.

So basically what is needed is to edit the Fs9 config/whatever to add an approach "plate/whatever" so that the AI jet/turboprop/commercial flight

"recognises" 14 as the "active in use" and any visiting aircraft(i.e piloted by me)can use the ILS/GS/DME approach if required?

Miggers

Hi,

There is a difference between the ILS beam you tune your NAV radio to, and the ILS approach code ATC/AI use. If that code is not there, then as far as ATC/AI is concerned, there is no ILS.

A very good detailed and long explanation by Jim Vile here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/tutorial-approaches.14074/

With ADE in approach mode you can add ILS approach code for ATC/AI to use. The AI only uses info from the header of that code.

Regards,

DDP.

Hi,

 

There is a difference between the ILS beam you tune your NAV radio to, and the ILS approach code ATC/AI use. If that code is not there, then as far as ATC/AI is concerned, there is no ILS.

 

A very good detailed and long explanation by Jim Vile here:

 

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/tutorial-approaches.14074/

 

With ADE in approach mode you can add ILS approach code for ATC/AI to use. The AI only uses info from the header of that code.

 

Regards,

DDP.

An excellent read Dirk.

So how do I get ADE into approach mode and what do I change once it's there please?

As I warned you it's not a simple click and go procedure in ADE, as it is in Approach Maker. I would load a default ILS approach and duplicate much of that to get your approach working in ADE.

To get to Approach Mode click the black Approach Mode button in the upper right of the ADE screen.

Hi,

Well, if you don't already have it, download the manual165.pdf from here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ade-version-1-65-english-manual-released.433288/

It does explain the basics of how to create an approach.

Approach codes are not an easy matter. I'll take a look at EGOV and see if I can get an approach working for RWY14.

Regards,

DDP.

Hi,

Here's what I've come up with.

Hope the link works...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TiTIGXsPrAkY9YeAKwY9sJ-85sQ-12IP/view?usp=sharing

Put EGOV_ADE9_APR.BGL in the same folder as your JF EGOV airport file.

AI coming from the south and west will kinda mimmick the final part of the DME arc before turning onto the final approach course.

I've kept the RWY at 14, but it seems it's become RWY13 now (magnetic north change...).

If you ever decide to change the RWY to 13 the appoach file will need to be updated as well.

Regards,

DDP.

I installed your APR too.

Is there no approach without transition? (Vectored?)

Hi,

The FS9 GPS and ATC give the choice to either vector or use the transition. I just used the transition for the screenshot.

And for now it's only for RWY14, since that was the OP's main interest.

The other RWYs have PAR approaches.

BTW, here's my source:

https://www.airfieldresearchgroup.org.uk/community/117733=10969-Valley%20-%20EGOV.pdf

Regards,

DDP.

Yes, I got the choice, but there was no approach at the GPS

Thankyou Dirk.

Downloaded perfectly.

I'll install it shortly and test it tomorrow.

I'll take Rick Pipers HS780 in there,that has a very good A/P that tracks a beam very well.

I trust you've used the Fs old ILS frequency of 109.70 and not the current Valley

frequency of 108.550.

Tested.

The 780 handles it well.

All I need now is to figure out how to modify the XML code so that Fs thinks that 14,whether ILS or

visual is the constant active. That's how it works at RW Valley.

The only other thing is the approach altitude that ATC gives,6500' to acquire the beam,surely that would be more like 2000-2500'?

Hi,

Yes, I got the choice, but there was no approach at the GPS

It's because I defined a different FAF in the header, to create the AI curved approach. So it'll look like AI tries to do some of the DME arc.

Here's the file with the FAF set the same as in the approach legs. Vectors do work now, but AI does a straight in approach.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UylUspahMox6izQSCUu-7621PLD3p2PO/view?usp=sharing

@Miggers

The APR file does not contain any freq. or airport data. It only contains waypoints and XML data for the AI and the FS9 GPS. To test fly this approach you need to load it in the GPS (see screenshots) and set the A/P to GPS. Of course you need an aircraft that can do that, like the stock FS9 aircraft.

The ILS beam your radio tunes to is completely separate from this.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

DDP.

Tested.

All I need now is to figure out how to modify the XML code so that Fs thinks that 14,whether ILS or

visual is the constant active. That's how it works at RW Valley.

 

The only other thing is the approach altitude that ATC gives,6500' to acquire the beam,surely that would be more like 2000-2500'?

Hi,

It's defined as ILS, so it's always active, regardless of the weather. But it still depends on wind direction.

The 6500ft is the alt at Alpha transition. In reply #14 there's a link to the approach charts I used.

I just uploaded another version, where you can choose to get vectored to the IF, alt 2040ft. Only difference is AI approach code is now more "straight in". See reply #18.

Regards,

DDP.

Hi,

 

It's defined as ILS, so it's always active, regardless of the weather. But it still depends on wind direction.

 

The 6500ft is the alt at Alpha transition. In reply #14 there's a link to the approach charts I used.

 

I just uploaded another version, where you can choose to get vectored to the IF, alt 2040ft. Only difference is AI approach code is now more "straight in". See reply #18.

 

Regards,

DDP.

Thanks for the explanation, that is tricky :)

Hi,

 

It's defined as ILS, so it's always active, regardless of the weather. But it still depends on wind direction.

 

The 6500ft is the alt at Alpha transition. In reply #14 there's a link to the approach charts I used.

 

I just uploaded another version, where you can choose to get vectored to the IF, alt 2040ft. Only difference is AI approach code is now more "straight in". See reply #18.

 

Regards,

DDP.

That's the thing,the wind,75%of the time at Valley the wind is at about 300-ish degrees(due to the airfield alignment)so 14 is usually the active runway.When the wind swings,it's usually from the West,so 160-200 degrees and then 19 becomes the active. Fs ATC constantly(unless conditions are IMC)gives 31/32 as the active,even if you ask for an ILS approach to 14,it wants you to circle to land on 31/32.

I've d/l'ed the new BGL,just drop it into the folder the same as the other or do I have to remove your other BGL first Dirk?

Hi,

Replace the file. Just use one, not both.

You can close the other RWYs both for landing and takeoff at both ends, so only 14/32 remains open.

You say the wind usually comes from 300 to 270, then it's RWY32 or RWY26 that will be active.

For RWY14 you need wind from around 140, south east.

Regards,

DDP.

Thanks Dirk.

Senior moment there with the wind at Valley,I meant 120 to 160 for 14,if not then it's due West-ish

so then it goes to 19/10.

Most of the time it's from the South/South East.

08/26 is now completely closed for take-off/landing after the 2017 14/32 runway upgrade and lengthening work,it's used as a fast taxi way to get from 25 Sqn parking to the North taxi way and past the old 22 Sqn SAR hanger/heli pads when taking off from 14.