If you want an idea of what VR is like then check out this video.

This is one of the best videos I have come across that shows the key differences when flying VR. He too had a cockpit build, and used trackIR before going full VR.

If you post this video for all the naysayers to see then I will stop posting about VR because all I will have to do is reference this video.

I agree, great video. I’d be sold on VR if I wasn’t already.

Regards

Steve

I don't find that realistic at all. The opposite. We dont pan our heads in real life and watch the vision flash past with our eyes following along.

A small head movement and a flash of the eyes and I'm looking 45-90 degrees sideways and never saw the inbetween from directly ahead. Feels more natural then for me so simple use a 'snap' view from a 2D panel.

Just WAY too much movement for my liking. And the 'real' footage from the real aircraft still isn't the same as what our eyes see. That was a camera, not his eyes.

I'll kindly pass on VR.

...If you post this video for all the naysayers to see then I will stop posting about VR because all I will have to do is reference this video.

So, all of us who have posted in response to your other posts on the various other threads that you have started about VR and have either not accepted YOUR views and/or the way in which you have approached the subject are now, to use your term, "naysayers".

Name calling is NOT the way forward, is insulting and clearly shows the lack of respect that you have for fellow simmers that do not have the same views as you.

As I stated in THIS POST on one of the other threads there are many reasons why people don't use, or want to use, VR for flight simming and insulting them is simply going to make them even more less likely to listen to what you have got to say about the subject.

Yes, the best demonstration of what VR is Not. Is not a tool that can be used by a Real World pilot to either stay current ant or learn to fly.

Just an imaginary, wishful wanabe super pilot with a toy and make believe. If that works for you by all means keep on dreaming, reality is not for you.

He wears the heavy HMD to avoid seeing the pet next to him? I suggest he could easily do that by just using some glass frames with some side shades, much lighter, can actually wear it for quite a while, unlike the VR headsets that most people can only use for a few minutes.

Fly in the clouds with instruments that he cannot read.

Shoot at acft that he cannot actually see until they are on top of him.

Accept scenery that is just imaginary and does not represent reality, it just kind of looks like it, real ground references not required in the illusion.

Unable to read information, documents, necessary in real life flying.

Having the tunnel vision, with a FOV not even half the angle of real life.

I could go on, but I am sure it would make no difference to some that live in a world of make belief.

A clear, readable, cockpit with access to documents that you can actually read, and a scenery where you can actually look out the windows and recognize your ground references is only part of what you need in Real World flying and NONE are available in VR.

This is 12 minutes of exactly what the VR is for, pretend, illusion, dreams, wannabe, and need of a lot of imagination to substitute for reality, and what is Not, it has no use in Real World flying, just a toy.

You are in the wrong league. Go play your games, and leave these real pilots alone.

Thank you guys

Without your warnings I would have thought VR is a must.

Now i see the reality and save me lot of bucks of impulsive consumption without the expected satisfaction. Glad Im reading this forum

I don't find that realistic at all. The opposite. We dont pan our heads in real life and watch the vision flash past with our eyes following along.

 

A small head movement and a flash of the eyes and I'm looking 45-90 degrees sideways and never saw the inbetween from directly ahead. Feels more natural then for me so simple use a 'snap' view from a 2D panel.

 

Just WAY too much movement for my liking. And the 'real' footage from the real aircraft still isn't the same as what our eyes see. That was a camera, not his eyes.

 

I'll kindly pass on VR.

The head movement is the same as in real life, you just look around. It is NOT like the exaggerated movements of trackir where you turn your head just a little, to turn the view a lot. I always felt I had to hold my head still with trackir because of this...it got fatiguing. On of the first things you will notice is the freedom of movement that VR gives you. AND btw the head tracking in current VR is built into the headset with cameras...you do not need to mount sensors on the walls anymore. Total freedom.

Yes, the best demonstration of what VR is Not. Is not a tool that can be used by a Real World pilot to either stay current ant or learn to fly.

Just an imaginary, wishful wanabe super pilot with a toy and make believe. If that works for you by all means keep on dreaming, reality is not for you.

He wears the heavy HMD to avoid seeing the pet next to him? I suggest he could easily do that by just using some glass frames with some side shades, much lighter, can actually wear it for quite a while, unlike the VR headsets that most people can only use for a few minutes.

Fly in the clouds with instruments that he cannot read.

Shoot at acft that he cannot actually see until they are on top of him.

Accept scenery that is just imaginary and does not represent reality, it just kind of looks like it, real ground references not required in the illusion.

Unable to read information, documents, necessary in real life flying.

Having the tunnel vision, with a FOV not even half the angle of real life.

I could go on, but I am sure it would make no difference to some that live in a world of make belief.

A clear, readable, cockpit with access to documents that you can actually read, and a scenery where you can actually look out the windows and recognize your ground references is only part of what you need in Real World flying and NONE are avail be in VR.

This is 12 minutes of exactly what the VR is for, pretend, illusion, dreams, wannabe, and need of a lot of imagination to substitute for reality, and what is Not, it has no use in Real World flying just a toy.

You are in the wrong league. Go play your games, and leave these real pilots alone.

This is a video using War thunder...not a simulator and YOU KNOW THAT so quit trying to gaslight the topic. In Aeorfly they are using orbx scenery packs in VR...you have a problem with orbx scenery now?

Thank you guys

Without your warnings I would have thought VR is a must.

Now i see the reality and save me lot of bucks of impulsive consumption without the expected satisfaction. Glad Im reading this forum

Your loss. My homebuilt was better than any of yours I bet, and I dismantled it overnight as soon as I tried VR. You don't even have the home cockpit I had, so you are even worse off than I was and still refuse to go VR...so if you are content with a 2D monitor view then your prerogative.

Your video proves what many of us object to about VR. The beautiful first part of that video is showing the screen (not VR) view of head movement/looking around that could just about be TrackIR, as well. The part that actually shows the Oculus view makes it difficult to read text, is incredibly poor resolution, and has some lag. I notice that only a very short segment of the video shows what the Rift sees, the rest being the same kind of view that I get from TrackIR, and without the cumbersome, expensive device.

Many of us are not into combat, but we can do much the same head and body movement with excellent resolution, can read text and not have to deal with a clumsy, cumbersome box on our heads, as well as giving us the advantage of being able to see charts, tablets (with charts, weather, etc.) and other things around, just by using TrackIR.

BTW, the opening sequence with the elongated P-40s, taken from a movie, is badly distorted (people are fat, airplanes and other things have the wrong proportions).

Hmmm... at 8:33 there are cloud wisps in the cockpit? And that's on the screen, not in the Oculus view, so must be an artifact of the war game.

I fear your mental bias is keeping you from recognizing the drawbacks that so many of us wish to avoid, even when they are pointed out to you.

So I'd say the video is better proof for the "anti" argument than for the "pro" argument.

And, as Brian points out, insulting everyone who fails to agree with your every whim doesn't do your credibility any good, either. Flytv1 and I are in complete agreement. Perhaps this time you might spend some time reading the posts in this thread and actually make an attempt to understand what people say, to understand it from THE OTHER PERSON'S viewpoint, even when you disagree -- I don't think you've ever tried that.

Once again, if you like VR, have fun, but quit trying to push it on me (and many others).

exactly!

VrDude or ghosttown, whoever you are,

the reason i put thumbs down even if everything else is superb

is "reading little digits" in gauges and fmc

you see, flying IFR or a commercial plane means managing fmc ipads gauges little numbers in gauges etc. I saw some people in youtube with VR in Pmdg 737ngx and they were all with a quality you were unable to read anything. They "pretended" to be using the FMC but it was only a show off for the video, they couldnt read what they were touching, otherwise they would have made a video with quality showing you could

Not to mention the times we need to use the keyboard and then the fatigue thing.

Just an imaginary, wishful wanabe super pilot with a toy and make believe. If that works for you by all means keep on dreaming, reality is not for you.

Isn't this all Flight sim is anyway? I VR and see none of the problems those of you who do NOT use VR complain about. It shows you have no clue about it. At the same time I am sick of all the VR posts. Look you are not going to change most people's minds out here. Hell, many can't even get past FS9 and advance their technology and you expect to get them to use VR? Just save your breath.

This is a video using War thunder...not a simulator and YOU KNOW THAT so quit trying to gaslight the topic. In Aeorfly they are using orbx scenery packs in VR...you have a problem with orbx scenery now?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]220329[/ATTACH]

Yes, I know. And even for that is not very useful, view the tape again about the distance that he can actually see the Enemy, likely he will kill more friends than foe with VR.

I have No problem with Ortho / photo scenery, I've been creating my own scenery in ZL18 and my own acft. for MSFS, XP.. very likely since before you were born. At that ZL I can look out the windows and recognize the actual ground references from real life flying. In VR I have to be right on top of it to recognize it.

I find Ortho scenery from after market, and most of the acft. that are being sold of no real benefit. There are many free tools that one can use to get what they want.

Having to wear that 2Lbs weight on your head, squishing your nose and having to deal with stray light, making sure you have no windows or bright lights behind you, are just a few more things you can add to your list. Keep going and I will post a list 10 pages long with just a few the problems one can encounter with VR.

Remember, I have one of the best and most expensive VR on the market and if I could find a good reason to support it I would. I've spent over $1,000.00 listening and trusting people like you, that seem to be more interested in illusions and have no good grasp of reality.

You may be interested in it?

I tested it on 2 systems an I9 at 5 GHz GTX 1080 and I7 8700 at 4.7 GTX 1070 and neither one is capable of giving me the resolution needed to make the VR useful as a tool.

It's just NOT there.There are 3 layers of Firmware, Software that are required to just get started and then you need the sim interface, XP does it's own and not very efficient but likely the best, most efficient, available.

Just a few more things to add to get any of the combination VR, PC, Game and other items needed to get somewhat satisfactory results for a Game play one will likely need to invest around $4,000.00 and all that gets you is an illusion.

It's just NOT there, unless you want to pretend.

Ghosttown, I asked you not to PM me any more. In reply to my post #8 in this thread you sent me a PM that said:

The problem is you are spreading misinformation. This video is showing you the difference of what VR is to a typical trackir or monitor setup. It is not to show flight sim capabilities because it's not a simulator he is using. Try aerofly fs2 and you can clearly see the panel and pull a full IFR approach...but clearly you are ignorant and continue to prove it by your comments.

What "misinformation" am I spreading? That video showed me a comparison of a screen at hi res with an Oculus Rift and its very low resolution. Yes, it showed me what a screen looks like against the Oculus, and the screen is MUCH better. You say it's not a simulator he's using? Then what is it. Certainly he has a few shots from a real aircraft, but most of the video is showing some sort of combat game, presumably simulating flight (or maybe you can tell me WHAT it is?). I don't have OR WANT OR CARE ABOUT aerofly fs2, so don't go there -- it's totally irrelevant.

You still are making no attempt to understand someone else's viewpoint. I've wasted too much time on you. Grow up!

Bye.

Mr Ghosttown

You made this profile just to post about VR

Your previous profile "VRdude" the motif of your interest is stated in the nick

I can only imagine you are involved as a vendor or developper of Oculus Rift.

I would like to see more casual simmers posting about how amazing VR is and how they cant sim fly without them.

user "g7rta" said he likes VR and used it in the past but "is no longer using it" ...

so instead of door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen we need clients speaking for VR, spontaneously, consistent full-time users, from start engines, 2 hour flight and landing, not the people saying just that its an interesting experience

Ghosttown, I asked you not to PM me any more. In reply to my post #8 in this thread you sent me a PM that said:

 

 

 

What "misinformation" am I spreading? That video showed me a comparison of a screen at hi res with an Oculus Rift and its very low resolution. Yes, it showed me what a screen looks like against the Oculus, and the screen is MUCH better. You say it's not a simulator he's using? Then what is it. Certainly he has a few shots from a real aircraft, but most of the video is showing some sort of combat game, presumably simulating flight (or maybe you can tell me WHAT it is?). I don't have OR WANT OR CARE ABOUT aerofly fs2, so don't go there -- it's totally irrelevant.

 

You still are making no attempt to understand someone else's viewpoint. I've wasted too much time on you.

 

Bye.

Not too long ago we were looking at lines on the screen for mountains...as it is VR is amazing with the orbx scenery. You all act like VR is done improving ..it's just getting started. This video was to show the concept of the VR world versus nonVR...how all encompassing it is.

Hi, I actually said I’m not using it at the moment due to being an alpha/beta tester of the new sim. I’m currently using three 43” screens & they work quite well.

I do still like VR though and I look forward to trying the new sim when it adds vr (whenever that will be)

I certainly agree that Mr Ghosttown should give it a rest. Let’s enjoy whatever setup we have and get on with simming :)

Regards

Steve

Hi, I actually said I’m not using it at the moment due to being an alpha/beta tester of the new sim. I’m currently using three 43” screens & they work quite well.

I do still like VR though and I look forward to trying the new sim when it adds vr (whenever that will be)

I certainly agree that Mr Ghosttown should give it a rest. Let’s enjoy whatever setup we have and get on with simming :)

 

Regards

Steve

I agree...I just posted inquiring about saitek FIPS being compatible or not with fs2020 because I may set up my old build until VR version.

Are they compatible?

I literally just joined this forum but I have to comment that those of you speaking out against VR sound absolutely ridiculous. You think old codgers back in the day didn't say the same crap about PC flight sims? "There's no way you can learn to fly a plane on a computer" or "This is for wannabe pilots". Guess what, you CAN in fact learn all of the fundamentals of flight through a sim. So why would VR be any different? God forbid someone be able to actually interact with a cockpit.

Let me tell you something: I do fly airplanes. Not just ones made of pixels but real aircraft. I also play Flight Simulator X and DCS with actual airline pilots and actual fighter pilots respectively. It took me 4 months to be able to land on a carrier in an F/A-18C Block 20 Hornet. I learned it with an ACTUAL F/A-18C Hornet pilot. He taught me CASE 1 recovery techniques and I got it down eventually. All the while, he's telling me that the VR DCS experience is far superior in immersion, control characteristics, and providing the ability to learn aircraft systems than anything they had in the Navy.

But yeah, booooo VR. Couldn't possibly be a worthwhile tool. It's not like the military is investing millions into VR as a replacement for their full cockpit sims. Nor are hundreds of corporate entities using it for training or thousands considering it. Oh wait...yes...yes they are.

But go ahead and hate on new technology because you spent thousands on building a full cockpit in your house or whatever your setup is. I'll keep on flying with my actual fellow pilots in VR and having a blast.

Ghosttown, I asked you not to PM me any more. In reply to my post #8 in this thread you sent me a PM that said:

 

 

 

What "misinformation" am I spreading? That video showed me a comparison of a screen at hi res with an Oculus Rift and its very low resolution. Yes, it showed me what a screen looks like against the Oculus, and the screen is MUCH better. You say it's not a simulator he's using? Then what is it. Certainly he has a few shots from a real aircraft, but most of the video is showing some sort of combat game, presumably simulating flight (or maybe you can tell me WHAT it is?). I don't have OR WANT OR CARE ABOUT aerofly fs2, so don't go there -- it's totally irrelevant.

 

You still are making no attempt to understand someone else's viewpoint. I've wasted too much time on you. Grow up!

 

Bye.

It sounds like this tirade is going beyond spamming and into harassment of members, which I hope the Mods will address.

There is no VR support of this game and I would suggest, humbly, that the posts be moved to that hardware forum at the bottom of the forum list. Ghosttown and his other screen names can jabber to each other in there at will while keeping this forum on topic.

It sounds like this tirade is going beyond spamming and into harassment of members, which I hope the Mods will address.

 

There is no VR support of this game and I would suggest, humbly, that the posts be moved to that hardware forum at the bottom of the forum list. Ghosttown and his other screen names can jabber to each other in there at will while keeping this forum on topic.

They are very much planning to make FS 2020 VR-compatible. They are just not sure if they can make it happen by launch. But it will be coming post-launch at the latest. Article below:

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/07/16/microsoft-flight-simulator-vr/

It sounds like this tirade is going beyond spamming and into harassment of members, which I hope the Mods will address.

 

There is no VR support of this game and I would suggest, humbly, that the posts be moved to that hardware forum at the bottom of the forum list. Ghosttown and his other screen names can jabber to each other in there at will while keeping this forum on topic.

There is going to be VR support. That's why we want our own forum! You guys keep harping about how you can't see the panel blah blah and that's totally not true if you actually tried actual VR with some of the leading VR sims like aerosoft. Besides...do you REALLY think Microsoft is going to release a VR version that isn't IFR friendly with fuzzy panels? Lol nope!

Thank you guys

Without your warnings I would have thought VR is a must.

Now i see the reality and save me lot of bucks of impulsive consumption without the expected satisfaction. Glad Im reading this forum

Well said!! I don't put my cellphone onto a device held at my head! As I multi-thousand hour RW pilot I didn't do any of that either then!

Nor IMHO no one else who actually wants to sim fly should either!!!

There is going to be VR support. That's why we want our own forum! You guys keep harping about how you can't see the panel blah blah and that's totally not true if you actually tried actual VR with some of the leading VR sims like aerosoft. Besides...do you REALLY think Microsoft is going to release a VR version that isn't IFR friendly with fuzzy panels? Lol nope!

Its not up to Microsoft, it depends on hardware and VR technology is simply not there yet.

VR is an "entertainment" device and that is how its thought by Oculus or any manufacturer.

Its good for arcade and for a few minutes.

Ever since 2005 when good VR glasses came out the advertisement talk about high resolutions, and when you complain they say the resolution was "per eye" and by adding the too you get to 1920 something.

Today there are still no 1920x1080 per eye, there are models soon to be released.

At the highest resolution the lagging is unbearable

If you complain the manufacturers support tells you to lower the resolution. Then whats the point?

Even when they come out its impossible to deal with fatigue

I cant work on my computer monitor without using eye-saver, and when i Flysim i either choose short flights or long hauls where I can auto pilot on cruise and get away from the computer for a while.

Nobody can hold a VR for an extended period of minutes (just doing nothing watching the view) without feeling claustrophobic or tired. And if you do need to act like operating an fmc, gps, or overhead tasks that time in most people doesnt exceed two or three minutes.

You fail to see the difference between "entertainment" which is what VR is, and a simulation of a real work, job, which is all involved in flying an airplane.

Many people have bought VRs in the last 20 years.

They took it out of the box, tried it a few times, found the experience amazing, then put it away and not used it anymore.

VR is always a> "it will be great in future where it will be just like reality"

yes, its that kind of Blade Runner fantasy.

The fact is we are still not there.

Its not up to Microsoft, it depends on hardware and VR technology is simply not there yet.

 

VR is an "entertainment" device and that is how its thought by Oculus or any manufacturer.

Its good for arcade and for a few minutes.

Ever since 2005 when good VR glasses came out the advertisement talk about high resolutions, and when you complain they say the resolution was "per eye" and by adding the too you get to 1920 something.

 

Today there are still no 1920x1080 per eye, there are models soon to be released.

At the highest resolution the lagging is unbearable

If you complain the manufacturers support tells you to lower the resolution. Then whats the point?

Even when they come out its impossible to deal with fatigue

I cant work on my computer monitor without using eye-saver, and when i Flysim i either choose short flights or long hauls where I can auto pilot on cruise and get away from the computer for a while.

 

Nobody can hold a VR for an extended period of minutes (just doing nothing watching the view) without feeling claustrophobic or tired. And if you do need to act like operating an fmc, gps, or overhead tasks that time in most people doesnt exceed two or three minutes.

 

You fail to see the difference between "entertainment" which is what VR is, and a simulation of a real work, job, which is all involved in flying an airplane.

 

Many people have bought VRs in the last 20 years.

They took it out of the box, tried it a few times, found the experience amazing, then put it away and not used it anymore.

 

VR is always a> "it will be great in future where it will be just like reality"

 

yes, its that kind of Blade Runner fantasy.

The fact is we are still not there.

I don't know what system you have but I experience no lagging and the scenery and panels are exceptional...you do realize that VR in aerofly is using orbx scenery right? You guys seem to think that VR today is the same as it was in the 80s. Have monitors not improved over the years? Have flight sims improved? Why do you think VR is any different? We already have in device head tracking now so no need for sensors around the room...hand tracking is next. Did you complain about flight simulator on the c64? It was part of the evolution and we wouldn't be here today without it. VR is the next evolution.

@ terrykpointer,

I think you have missed the main point here.....

Over several threads GhostTown (and also posting as VRDude) has repeatedly attempted to bestow the virtues of VR. Debating something is a two-way street that should respect the views of both sides, whether it is positive or negative. Clearly something that GhostTown doesn't accept because, when others, some of whom have clearly stated that they have tried or actually use VR, have given their own negative opinions, he has repeatedly derided them simply because their views/experience does not agree/match with his own view.

I have stated several times across various threads that this attitude is not the way forward but he continues to do so and now it seems has taken to using the PM function to harass individuals. This is arrogant and shows a lack of respect for others who enjoy the hobby in their own way.

Its not up to Microsoft, it depends on hardware and VR technology is simply not there yet.

 

VR is an "entertainment" device and that is how its thought by Oculus or any manufacturer.

Its good for arcade and for a few minutes.

Ever since 2005 when good VR glasses came out the advertisement talk about high resolutions, and when you complain they say the resolution was "per eye" and by adding the too you get to 1920 something.

 

Today there are still no 1920x1080 per eye, there are models soon to be released.

At the highest resolution the lagging is unbearable

If you complain the manufacturers support tells you to lower the resolution. Then whats the point?

Even when they come out its impossible to deal with fatigue

I cant work on my computer monitor without using eye-saver, and when i Flysim i either choose short flights or long hauls where I can auto pilot on cruise and get away from the computer for a while.

 

Nobody can hold a VR for an extended period of minutes (just doing nothing watching the view) without feeling claustrophobic or tired. And if you do need to act like operating an fmc, gps, or overhead tasks that time in most people doesnt exceed two or three minutes.

 

You fail to see the difference between "entertainment" which is what VR is, and a simulation of a real work, job, which is all involved in flying an airplane.

 

Many people have bought VRs in the last 20 years.

They took it out of the box, tried it a few times, found the experience amazing, then put it away and not used it anymore.

 

VR is always a> "it will be great in future where it will be just like reality"

 

yes, its that kind of Blade Runner fantasy.

The fact is we are still not there.

@ terrykpointer,

 

I think you have missed the main point here.....

 

Over several threads GhostTown (and also posting as VRDude) has repeatedly attempted to bestow the virtues of VR. Debating something is a two-way street that should respect the views of both sides, whether it is positive or negative. Clearly something that GhostTown doesn't accept because, when others, some of whom have clearly stated that they have tried or actually use VR, have given their own negative opinions, he has repeatedly derided them simply because their views/experience does not agree/match with his own view.

 

I have stated several times across various threads that this attitude is not the way forward but he continues to do so and now it seems has taken to using the PM function to harass individuals. This is arrogant and shows a lack of respect for others who enjoy the hobby in their own way.

They don't deserve respect because they are the same people who probably trashed early sims...and then they trashed the virtual cockpit, and then they trashed trackIR. If simming was left to these kind of simmers nothing would ever advance because they would never attempt anything until it reaches mass adoption.

The true simmers keep an open mind and try everything. I have been simming since c64...I have don't monitor instrument panels, trackir, full, all kinds of hardware and instrument panels, and VR.