Where is the VR forum?

Where are the VR forums???

There seems to be some anti VR movement by simmers who basically have never tried it. If you have tried it then you would NEVER go back to monitor flying unless you have a full motion simulator with 360 degree view. Even then VR wins because you can fly ANY plane not just ONE.

THIS was my old sim: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UeNHXVuC2P4JBRXT6

I shelved it as soon as I tried VR...it was such an improvement that I was willing to give up IFR flying for virtual VR...but then I realized I can fly IFR in VR just like before. Win win!

Anyway would like to see a VR forum opened for MS 2020 because I have ZERO interest flying NON-VR anymore.

Anyway would like to see a VR forum opened for MS 2020 because I have ZERO interest flying NON-VR anymore.

Sorry but FS2020 won't support VR, the developers Asobo have said they'll consider VR support at a later date.

I agree. I've been VR since Feb. and won't go back. FSX Flyinside. The only thing I have against it is there is no IA aircraft showing up except a few default and then none on the ground.

I run VR and use Ultimate Traffic live and see all traffic. Sounds like you may have a problem but I don't think it is VR related. It should not stop you from seeing what ever is in the sim.

Sorry but FS2020 won't support VR, the developers Asobo have said they'll consider VR support at a later date.

Ok glad to hear. Maybe we will get a VR workaround. Until then I will be flying VR with areofly, and flyinside.

btw for anybody who is on the fence about switching to VR. This is what I gave up and have never looked back....pun intended because I do look back all the time in VR because you have 360 degree view. :)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TtvhAge6ibeMK6p5A

I am pretty sure MSFS will get VR, but just not straight away. Some of the Asobo team have said in interviews that they are fans of VR but at the moment it’s not a priority. When they do add VR, they want to do it right.

What’s more, Xplane and P3D have it. Even FSX has it with the Fluinside plugin.

Anyone tried FlyInside’s own flight sim? The graphics & scenery need a lot of work but they VR is spot on! It is so immersive.

I can’t wait to try MSFS with VR. I’m confident it will happen, but we might have to wait a year

- Steve

I am pretty sure MSFS will get VR, but just not straight away. Some of the Asobo team have said in interviews that they are fans of VR but at the moment it’s not a priority. When they do add VR, they want to do it right.

What’s more, Xplane and P3D have it. Even FSX has it with the Fluinside plugin.

Anyone tried FlyInside’s own flight sim? The graphics & scenery need a lot of work but they VR is spot on! It is so immersive.

I can’t wait to try MSFS with VR. I’m confident it will happen, but we might have to wait a year

 

- Steve

Oh me too....I imagine they are wanting hand tracking so you can turn knobs etc for navigating without needing the controllers. VR in 2020 will be as close to the real thing as you can get.

It's amazing to me how high some people are setting their expectations for this sim that's still in Alpha, given that they're extrapolating their desires into expecting it all to happen soon with this sim, even though much of that hasn't been promised.

I'm not saying that some of these won't happen, but I am saying that setting very high expectations with nothing but speculation to back them up will be very disappointing to many folks, some of whom are likely to complain that the sim didn't deliver on its promises that were never promised.

In other words, keep a reasonable perspective, and soon enough you'll know all the details.

It's amazing to me how high some people are setting their expectations for this sim that's still in Alpha, given that they're extrapolating their desires into expecting it all to happen soon with this sim, even though much of that hasn't been promised.

 

I'm not saying that some of these won't happen, but I am saying that setting very high expectations with nothing but speculation to back them up will be very disappointing to many folks, some of whom are likely to complain that the sim didn't deliver on its promises that were never promised.

 

In other words, keep a reasonable perspective, and soon enough you'll know all the details.

I think VR with hand tracking is reasonable today. Actually I don't really understand why they are even bothering to release a non-VR version.

I just finished flying a full instrument approach, and while a little cumbersome with the knobs to set the frequencies it is worth the trade off to have 360 degree view. Once they get hand tracking working then there will be no reason to fly non-VR anymore.

Actually I don't really understand why they are even bothering to release a non-VR version.

Perhaps it has something to do with all the extra time, money and effort involved in including those extra capabilities. Perhaps combined with the fact that most of their potential customers still don't do VR it isn't worth it for the initial release, which they can then spend time on fixing problems after releasing it earlier.

VR is still too cumbersome for me, as an example. I get all the movement I need from in the virtual cockpit with TrackIR, and my mind generates enough "pretend" to get me immersed without the cumbersome devices.

For those (probably most of you out there) who didn't grow up providing your own mental images for radio shows when you were kids, it may be surprising how much the mind can supply to allow immersion in what you are doing.

For example, when I was a kid, as soon as I got home from school I'd plop down in front of the radio because it was almost time for Tom Corbett, Space Cadet, and following that was The Lone Ranger. And I can STILL close my eyes and visualize some of the scenes of Lamont Cranston exploring the water front at night as The Shadow.

So while that hasn't really been an available experience for many, many years, I mention it just to give an example of how the mind can supply a surprising amount of "fill in the details."

But my comments about high expectations weren't just about VR (which is there in some crude forms these days), but also about other speculations people have made about what might be in the sim with no indication other than their own desire.

Perhaps it has something to do with all the extra time, money and effort involved in including those extra capabilities. Perhaps combined with the fact that most of their potential customers still don't do VR it isn't worth it for the initial release, which they can then spend time on fixing problems after releasing it earlier.

 

VR is still too cumbersome for me, as an example. I get all the movement I need from in the virtual cockpit with TrackIR, and my mind generates enough "pretend" to get me immersed without the cumbersome devices.

 

For those (probably most of you out there) who didn't grow up providing your own mental images for radio shows when you were kids, it may be surprising how much the mind can supply to allow immersion in what you are doing.

 

For example, when I was a kid, as soon as I got home from school I'd plop down in front of the radio because it was almost time for Tom Corbett, Space Cadet, and following that was The Lone Ranger. And I can STILL close my eyes and visualize some of the scenes of Lamont Cranston exploring the water front at night as The Shadow.

 

So while that hasn't really been an available experience for many, many years, I mention it just to give an example of how the mind can supply a surprising amount of "fill in the details."

 

But my comments about high expectations weren't just about VR (which is there in some crude forms these days), but also about other speculations people have made about what might be in the sim with no indication other than their own desire.

You can't compare VR to Trackir...trackir is basically a Hat switch on your head. I had trackir before moving to a full cockpit build with saitek pips. VR is a whole other universe...its like you are actually sitting in the plane looking around...trackir is just the image on the monitor moving around. BIG DIFFERENCE!

With a decent rig you get great results in VR too...flying around the innsbruck addon in aerofly FS2 looks incredible.

You can't compare VR to Trackir...trackir is basically a Hat switch on your head. I had trackir before moving to a full cockpit build with saitek pips. VR is a whole other universe...its like you are actually sitting in the plane looking around...trackir is just the image on the monitor moving around. BIG DIFFERENCE!

 

With a decent rig you get great results in VR too...flying around the innsbruck addon in aerofly FS2 looks incredible.

I couldn’t agree more. I too used Trackir for years & absolutely loved it. It added so much more realism to my virtual flying. I had built my own cockpit (of sorts). It had a panel of switches & buttons above my head & looked fantastic. The Trackir sensor was mounted in the ceiling of it. It worked perfectly.

Then one day (several years later) I bought an Oculus Rift. WOW!! I was now sat in an actual cockpit.

I dismantled my own thing... got rid of TrackIR & flew in VR from them on.

Although I was a big fan of TrackIR, you can’t compare it with VR.

However, currently I now use three 43” 4K TV’s as monitors and have a few Saitek gauges so I’m not using VR quite as much at the moment (due to using a certain sim), but I am so looking forward to trying MSFS when VR is added

Regards

Steve

I couldn’t agree more. I too used Trackir for years & absolutely loved it. It added so much more realism to my virtual flying. I had built my own cockpit (of sorts). It had a panel of switches & buttons above my head & looked fantastic. The Trackir sensor was mounted in the ceiling of it. It worked perfectly.

Then one day (several years later) I bought an Oculus Rift. WOW!! I was now sat in an actual cockpit.

I dismantled my own thing... got rid of TrackIR & flew in VR from them on.

Although I was a big fan of TrackIR, you can’t compare it with VR.

 

However, currently I now use three 43” 4K TV’s as monitors and have a few Saitek gauges so I’m not using VR quite as much at the moment (due to using a certain sim which doesn’t have VR yet), but I am so looking forward to trying MSFS when VR is added

 

Regards

Steve

Totally...this was my rig that I built Pre-VR. I dismantled it shortly after trying the game "wings" on oculus quest...total arcade VR flying game but it was enough to realize what I was missing out on. I now have a new rig with aerofly fs2, fsx flyinside, and WCS. That's it!

Before:

After:

This is my setup, before & after..

but I'll only be flying VR once MSFS has it :)

Awesome!

For all the VR haters or if you are on the fence about VR... the fact that simmers who spent countless hours and money building cockpits are suddenly ditching them for VR should tell you something.

:cool:

It tells me that they look at things in a different fashion than I do. Except don't categorize people as love or hate with no in between. So don't call us VR haters. Perhaps indifferent will come closer, but certainly there are those of us who are NOT excited about hanging a big, heavy gadget on our heads. You evidently didn't understand my point, when I mentioned radio shows, about a LOT of the immersion factor being mental, at least for me.

So I don't begrudge you your desire to have VR, though I have trouble understanding the extreme enthusiasm, so don't begrudge me my viewpoint. Back off of the overblown hype about something that you've not yet seen (nor has anyone else), and that isn't even out of the Alpha stage yet, not even in Beta, though I understand that will be started in a couple of weeks or so.

You can't compare VR to Trackir...trackir is basically a Hat switch on your head.

Sure you can. They are definitely different things and different experiences, but just because you and some others think it's the greatest thing ever does not mean that others have to think the same way. And TrackIR is much more than a "hat switch on your head." It incorporates all kinds of movement in the virtual cockpit that a hat switch can't duplicate: Lean forward, tilt your head, duck down while leaning forward to see under and around the high wing, lean back, raise up in your seat to see over the nose, look around fast or slow, up or down, or in all axes at once, and all done smoothly and at varying rates, not the fixed rate of a hat switch. And it does this while adding only a couple of ounces to my head, not a big clumsy gadget. And it even works for one-eyed folks like Pat.

So back off calling us HATERS, or expecting us to share YOUR outlook. We're entitled to our opinion too.

Bye...

It tells me that they look at things in a different fashion than I do. Except don't categorize people as love or hate with no in between. So don't call us VR haters. Perhaps indifferent will come closer, but certainly there are those of us who are NOT excited about hanging a big, heavy gadget on our heads. You evidently didn't understand my point, when I mentioned radio shows, about a LOT of the immersion factor being mental, at least for me.

 

So I don't begrudge you your desire to have VR, though I have trouble understanding the extreme enthusiasm, so don't begrudge me my viewpoint. Back off of the overblown hype about something that you've not yet seen (nor has anyone else), and that isn't even out of the Alpha stage yet, not even in Beta, though I understand that will be started in a couple of weeks or so.

 

 

 

Sure you can. They are definitely different things and different experiences, but just because you and some others think it's the greatest thing ever does not mean that others have to think the same way. And TrackIR is much more than a "hat switch on your head." It incorporates all kinds of movement in the virtual cockpit that a hat switch can't duplicate: Lean forward, tilt your head, duck down while leaning forward to see under and around the high wing, lean back, raise up in your seat to see over the nose, look around fast or slow, up or down, or in all axes at once, and all done smoothly and at varying rates, not the fixed rate of a hat switch. And it does this while adding only a couple of ounces to my head, not a big clumsy gadget. And it even works for one-eyed folks like Pat.

First of all do you think that VR is like trackir only with a bigger headset? LOL! I assure you VR is not a hat switch tweak...in VR you are literally sitting inside the cockpit looking around. With trackir the screen moves around, in VR YOU move around. It is a whole new genre of gaming...soon to be the only genre of gaming I expect. I don't know why any gamer today would buy a game that isn't VR. Secondly, it works with one eye the same as a monitor or trackir does so I don't know what Pat is talking about.

So back off calling us HATERS, or expecting us to share YOUR outlook. We're entitled to our opinion too.

 

Bye...

You are entitled to your opinion, but you clearly have no idea what VR is.

The evolution of simming:

Cockpit view

Virtual Cockpit view

Virtual Cockpit view with trackIR

Physical cockpit build

Physical cockpit replica

Full motion simulator

VR

Most VR simmers have at one time tried TrackIR...I know I did. Then I moved on to building a home cockpit. VR is the next evolution. If you have tried VR then you know what I am talking about. If you haven't then you really don't know what you are missing out on. There is a reason VR simmers say they can never go back to non-VR simming.

First of all do you think that VR is like trackir only with a bigger headset?

That's NOT what I said. I was explaining, if you will reread it, that TrackIR is more than a hat switch. I said NOTHING about VR in that context. Read what's there, not what you want to argue about.

but you clearly have no idea what VR is.

I don't know where you get that idea. I know what it is, but I don't particularly want it. Apparently you can't understand another view point.

Bye...

Awesome!

 

For all the VR haters or if you are on the fence about VR... the fact that simmers who spent countless hours and money building cockpits are suddenly ditching them for VR should tell you something.

 

:cool:

Name them?

Most of the simmers of my acquaintance, including many real world pilots, think VR is flim-flam for the rank amateur!

Good for some light relief, but not even adequate for serious simmers. Much less true pilots.

It's been tried and abandoned by my local flying club, for example.

Name them?

Most of the simmers of my acquaintance, including many real world pilots, think VR is flim-flam for the rank amateur!

Good for some light relief, but not even adequate for serious simmers. Much less true pilots.

It's been tried and abandoned by my local flying club, for example.

Name them? lol there are 2 of us just in this thread alone.

Oh btw you do realize that the airforce is using VR to train pilots now right?

Anyway "serious simmer" can we see your rig? I'm guessing it is some TRackir virtual cockpit mash up or some Frankenstein homebuild that has a generic physical panel that does not replicate any actual aircraft.

Unless you have an EXACT replica an an actual plane, with a 360 degree wrap around view, you are fooling yourself thinking you are learning how to become a pilot. Sure you can learn how to hit an instrument approach and use autopilot for 99% of the flight, but, it takes more than knowing how to press buttons and turn knobs to be a pilot.

My typical flight would consist of looking at the departure/approach plates and getting all the frequencies dialed in, then take off and hit autopilot. It was fun, but it was really the only option because flying with anything less than a 360 degree view is essentially tunnel vision. I NEVER flew VFR with my old rig. That all changed in VR...I can still hit instrument approaches like before, but VR has brought pilotage back! I plan on going through the entire book of MSFS real world training again when FS2020 has its VR release.

Unless you have an EXACT replica an an actual plane, with a 360 degree wrap around view, you are fooling yourself thinking you are learning how to become a pilot.

I wasn't going to reply to you any more, but this statement is too outrageous to let lie. That statement is absolute baloney. Even with the setup you mention "you are fooling yourself thinking you are learning how to become a pilot." Maybe, just maybe, if you read all of this post you might come away with a different perspective.

The only way you'll become a pilot is to take flight training in real aircraft. Sims of ALL varieties can aid in that training, but cannot, by themselves, be the only means of training.

You obviously are not aware that you are talking to real world pilots of considerable experience. Until health intervened, I was a real world flight instructor (yes, for instruments too -- CFII), and though I don't know all of his background mallcott is also a real world pilot with considerable experience. So don't talk to us about "real pilot" since you evidently don't understand much except your emotions. You also sound very young, and very inexperienced as far as real world aviation goes. You apparently don't even realize that a lot of "real piloting" occurs without instrument charts, flight plans, or operations, being strictly VFR, or more properly, conducted in VMC. And much of it without ever talking to ATC.

If not for the need to perhaps give you something to chew on, to help you understand that you're out of line, I'd not have mentioned these things in the previous paragraph and the things in the paragraph below, but:

Did you ever experience flight in an open cockpit biplane? Did you ever experience flight in a glider? Did you ever tow gliders? Did you ever tow a banner? Did you ever experience flight (other than in a real airliner) in actual IMC? Did you ever experience loops, rolls, hammerheads and more in real flight? Did you ever try to teach someone about flying (or about anything, such as first aid, how to march, wilderness survival, and more)? Did you ever fly in an airline full motion sim (actually doing the flying, even)? Did you ever feel the joy introducing someone to the real world of flying?

I've done all of that and more. And I am certain that mallcott has experienced much of that, and probably things I haven't.

but VR has brought pilotage back!

Many of us do pilotage in the sim just fine without VR, and have for many years, even before VR existed. Ultimate Terrain helped a lot with that, and ORBX scenery helped even more, but it was doable even in FS2000, prior to either of those.

I'll forego some other things I really want to say and leave you with a suggestion to find out who/what you're dealing with before you spout off, and recognize that you are NOT the only one who actually knows something, perhaps more than you do.

Did you ever experience flight in an open cockpit biplane? Did you ever experience flight in a glider? Did you ever tow gliders? Did you ever tow a banner? Did you ever experience flight (other than in a real airliner) in actual IMC? Did you ever experience loops, rolls, hammerheads and more in real flight? Did you ever try to teach someone about flying (or about anything, such as first aid, how to march, wilderness survival, and more)? Did you ever fly in an airline full motion sim (actually doing the flying, even)? Did you ever feel the joy introducing someone to the real world of flying?

 

I've done all of that and more. And I am certain that mallcott has experienced much of that, and probably things I haven't.

Have you tried VR?

Many of us do pilotage in the sim just fine without VR, and have for many years, even before VR existed. Ultimate Terrain helped a lot with that, and ORBX scenery helped even more, but it was doable even in FS2000, prior to either of those.

 

I'll forego some other things I really want to say and leave you with a suggestion to find out who/what you're dealing with before you spout off, and recognize that you are NOT the only one who actually knows something, perhaps more than you do.

1. A VFR only pilot is not a real pilot imo. I would NEVER get in the plane with a VFR or "sport pilot" no matter how good the forecast is.

2. You can't pilotage without a 270 degree wrap around view unless you use the hat switch or trackir...which as previously mentioned is basically a hatswitch on your head to free up your hands for other things. VR is an entirely different, more immersive experience than either of those options that you simply won't understand until you try it.

Also, a person who flys VR will be miles ahead of any classroom students who don't use VR.

3. VR is SO IMMERSIVE that the end game doesn't have to be a pilots licence anymore.

Think about it...ANY plane you want to fly, ANY where in the world, at ANY time of the day, in ANY kind of weather, without the cost of buying it, maintaining it, gas, hanger, expensive classes to get certified, or the inherent risk. You might never go back to real world flying. :)

BUT if someone is interested in getting a real world pilots licence, imo they would be doing themselves a disservice by not utilizing what VR has to offer.