Maybe this is why the P-51 was given the name of Mustang!

Took a long time before I could have landings like this. Like "breaking a horse!" Just takes a lot of patience and conversations with one another!:rolleyes:

It was a challenge, and STILL IS!:cool:

Rick :cool::cool:

Nice shot Rick!

Having said that, I'm curious, does the Mustang flip on too heavy a throttle application during the take off roll?

I've read many accounts that saying happened RW to under experienced P-51 pilots.

Michael

Nice shot Rick!

 

Having said that, I'm curious, does the Mustang flip on too heavy a throttle application during the take off roll?

 

I've read many accounts that saying happened RW to under experienced P-51 pilots.

 

Michael

You know what, Michael, that is a good question! I have never been fortunate enough to even sit in one of these great aircraft, let alone ride along with someone else or to be able to hear their hangar stories of the P-51! One thing I have to admire, when watching some of the old war time clips of our young pilots preparing for combat, is that many of these young men never had any exposure to flying aircraft prior to their military service. They accepted their assignments to flight schools, advanced thru various aircraft up to say, an AT-6, and that was probably the last stop before being sent overseas for their new combat assignments! Listening to the "pilots of old" who arrived at their combat assignments only to be handed a spanking new P-51 aircraft! These pilots weren't offered time to get acquainted with their new aircraft! Hell, most probably didn't so much as get a checkride or even a familiarization session with seasoned P-51 pilots! BUT, I am sure many made mistakes along the way and did seek the advice of seasoned pilots who have flown these marvelous aircraft!

Me, I am just an ex-PPL pilot, licensed now for 54 years! Flown many various aircraft but nothing close to what I am being afforded with FSX. When I come upon those Corsairs, P-51's, the Republic XP-72, I take on these aircraft not knowing anything pro's or cons of them. I struggle with them until I find things that work and try not to do the things that don't work! With flight sim, you always have the CTRL +C if things get out of control. If you don't use that option quick enough and you damage the aircraft, not to worry, FSX will give you another new one! How nice is that?! BUT, these brave pilots of WWII didn't have those options! They were dealing with real time consequences! My hat goes off to each and every one of them for being so courageous!

Now, as a sim pilot, I do like the P-51 aircraft a lot! It will try your patience, but, give it some time. When you asked about flipping over, I got to thinking about that! On takeoff roll, I come in with the throttle very easy and eventually will come in with the full 60" Manifold Pressure. The P-51 is very quick, won't be on the ground very long! The nose does appear that it will come down more than it should. I added a trim tab/wheel to my P-51 panel, so it doesn't drop the nose like it used to. I roll the wheel just a tad back beyond neutral, favoring slight nose up! If you look from an outside view (it's very impressive) the P-51 will leave the ground on it's own! This is my "work around" and have never experienced what you are talking about. Here again, Michael, these are flight simulator aircraft, and incidents like you have asked about could very well be out there!

Oh, and I also took care of the settings on "P Torque" which should take care of other issues! Yeah, I was a little timid when looking at that long nose and what must be hiding under that huge cowling! It works for me, maybe some day I will see if these planes want to dance like a "jack rabbit" going down the runway!

Try it Michael, I think you will find these P-51 aircraft very nice flying machines! I downloaded the Warwick Carter download, as there are many many liveries/nose paints out there. I have currently whittled my count back to 7!

Enjoy! - Rick:cool::cool:

Nice shot Rick!

 

Having said that, I'm curious, does the Mustang flip on too heavy a throttle application during the take off roll?

 

I've read many accounts that saying happened RW to under experienced P-51 pilots.

 

Michael

If you browse the postings on the A2A Mustang forum, you'll see the most common complaint from new users is "I can't get off the ground!" When they first released it, I had the same problem; finally took to driving it around the dry lake at Edwards going faster and faster until I got the hang of controlling the torque. Fortunately, the wide-track gear handles ground loops with aplomb. The best way to start off is with about 30" of manifold pressure, keeping straight with the tail wheel until you get some rudder authority. As you bring in more power, add more right rudder, some forward stick to get the tail up (but not too much!) and some right aileron to take the weight off the left wheel, otherwise she'll roll enthusiastically to the left as you rotate. Quite a handful at first, but persistence ( and cheap repairs) pays off.

Ian

Took a long time before I could have landings like this. Like "breaking a horse!" Just takes a lot of patience and conversations with one another!:rolleyes:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]219459[/ATTACH]

 

It was a challenge, and STILL IS!:cool:

 

Rick :cool::cool:

Picture perfect! Repetition with the right power settings and you’ll be in control of that horse every time!

Thanks Laurie and, yes, power settings are a big part of it. Airspeed and also attitude! Attitude? Yes, that too! I try to set up anywhere between 110-120 KIAS, which seems to agree with the horse! Just yesterday, I flew into Palm Beach International, somehow I lost my Autopilot on my ILS coming into RWY 28, had to quickly regroup to try to salvage what started out to be a "picture perfect" approach, now it is heading towards a catastrophe! I managed to save the rate of descent, however, my airspeed was well above what I like, 140 KIAS, and when I mentioned attitude, that's what I concentrated on to save the landing. I flared slightly got the VSI to show "0" (dead level) and I will be darned if the horse didn't accept that higher airspeed and it greased right on to the runway, much to my surprise, no bounce, just a very nice landing! So, yes, repetition does help, and I think we are finally starting to "like each other! When first starting out, I concentrated heavily on the VSI, as that nose is HUGE and the VSI would give me an idea of what attitude the aircraft was in at the final moments! Now with repetition, I am getting a better feel for the aircraft, and it did help in salvaging that landing at PBIA!

Things are definitely starting to click with flying the P-51 and like I said, it has been a "challenge" and it still is! Definitely have to stay one step ahead (if not two) of this Bad Boy!

Thanks again for your comments! - Rick :cool::cool:

Oh, and Ian, sorry, almost forgot you! Yes, I can imagine the A2A Mustang forum would be a good place for tips! Michael, if your game for this aircraft, might be the place to begin!

Thanks for your comments Ian, and I will check that forum site out! Any information from the seasoned P-51 sim pilots will be valuable in being able to tame this aircraft!

Rick :cool:

Thanks Laurie and, yes, power settings are a big part of it. Airspeed and also attitude! Attitude? Yes, that too! I try to set up anywhere between 110-120 KIAS, which seems to agree with the horse! Just yesterday, I flew into Palm Beach International, somehow I lost my Autopilot on my ILS coming into RWY 28, had to quickly regroup to try to salvage what started out to be a "picture perfect" approach, now it is heading towards a catastrophe! I managed to save the rate of descent, however, my airspeed was well above what I like, 140 KIAS, and when I mentioned attitude, that's what I concentrated on to save the landing. I flared slightly got the VSI to show "0" (dead level) and I will be darned if the horse didn't accept that higher airspeed and it greased right on to the runway, much to my surprise, no bounce, just a very nice landing! So, yes, repetition does help, and I think we are finally starting to "like each other! When first starting out, I concentrated heavily on the VSI, as that nose is HUGE and the VSI would give me an idea of what attitude the aircraft was in at the final moments! Now with repetition, I am getting a better feel for the aircraft, and it did help in salvaging that landing at PBIA!

 

Things are definitely starting to click with flying the P-51 and like I said, it has been a "challenge" and it still is! Definitely have to stay one step ahead (if not two) of this Bad Boy!

 

Thanks again for your comments! - Rick :cool::cool:

Yes, you always have to be ahead of the airplane. Never let the airplane fly you. Love your explanations!

Thanks Laurie!

Rick :cool:

The P-51 is a wonderful plane to fly with an excellent example provided by A2A.

However those in FSX are fairly benign.

If you really want a feel for how difficult it might have been, try the free civilian P-51 in DCS World. It was a few weeks before I could get this off the ground reliably and I had to research the take off problems that pilots had in the 2nd world war to find out why. The problem is that if you trim nose up for take off that will keep the tail down on the ground and in that attitude the plane will lift off the ground before it has enough aileron authority to stop it flipping over because of the torque. You absolutely have to get the tail up and let it pick up more speed before allowing it to lift off. Also be aware that there is a Special setting for the P-51 that provides take-off assistance set to 100% as the default, so you obviously want to set that to zero. You can install DCS and try out the civilian P-51 completely free of charge and it is a wonderful plane to fly. Reliable take-offs and landings are extremely satisfying. Also the P-51 is very sensitive to rudder trim and will behave in all sorts of unexpected ways when out of trim.

Silver

Thanks Silverghost! What you described is almost exactly the way it was described to me years ago by an actual RW WWII P-51 pilot. He said for training purposes they installed a hardware block so you couldn't move the throttle to the point the torque was too strong. Then after several take offs keeping the tail wheel up, the block was removed. But you had to remember the correct setting and not be tempted to overpower it.

I remember when I first was in jet training, the first engine we started, revved, and then shut down was in old FJ Furies. They only had the unfolding half of each wing left on. And they were chained in place with the brakes locked on, so we newbies couldn't get one out of control. They also had a mechanical stop to prevent you from revving to over about 40% power. But still, sitting in that closed cockpit and getting instructions on the "radio" was a feeling I'll never forget! And from the outside when the dozen or so Furies in a row all revved to 40% power at once, it was pretty noisy.

It sounds counter intuitive, but obviously with the Mustang and the Spitfire, the problem was the same. Too much torque and not enough aileron control at too low lift off speed.

And yes, if I ever get the time, I'll certainly give the DCS P-51 a try. I have the "Dunkirk" Spitfire. But as forgiving as it to fly, I'm guessing that trait was "toned down" whilst in the modeling process. The only real issues with it seem to be correct fuel mixture and avoiding prop over-rev.

Michael

And yes, if I ever get the time, I'll certainly give the DCS P-51 a try. I have the "Dunkirk" Spitfire. But as forgiving as it to fly, I'm guessing that trait was "toned down" whilst in the modeling process. The only real issues with it seem to be correct fuel mixture and avoiding prop over-rev.

 

Michael

Interesting post by Silverghost! One thing to keep in mind, Michael! I am not flying a North American P-51, I am flying a Warwick Carter P-51, modeled after the North American P-51! Has Warwick Carter ever flown a RW P-51? I don't know. He is a developer/designer of freeware flight simulator aircraft!

You can have 5 different P-51's by 5 different designers and they would all probably fly differently from one another! I am sure when these designers build these aircraft for freeware distribution, they want to include most of the characteristics they know about the aircraft, but at the same time, offer the aircraft that can be enjoyed by all! I am a RW pilot and flying some of these aircraft might be easier for me or yourself, because we have learned the dynamics of flight over the years and we understand what works and what doesn't. How about the flight simmer that has never sat in a RW aircraft before, now able to fly numerous freeware aircraft! Now, he just happens upon a download listing showing a nice and shiny P-51. Hey, why not? Give it a whirl. He might adapt well to it, he might struggle with it, don't know. Will he enjoy the P-51 the same as other freeware aircraft he has conquered?

It will definitely take a little longer to get there!

At the start of this post, I stated that I marvel at the WWII pilots of old, fresh out of flight school, arriving at their new flight assignment and are given the keys (no keys likely for this bird) to a brand spanking new P-51! Now, these are the guys who have their hands full! A whole lot of RW bird with a lot of responsibility that goes with it! Yes, they will struggle with it. Will they be successful with it? They better be, their life is dependent on it! And most of the WWII aircraft pilots who have flown these birds, will praise those aircraft they flew! They made it work and they grew fond of being able to fly those beautiful birds. If these RW P-51 pilots were to sit in a computer chair and fly one of my Warwick Carter P-51's, they would probably tell you it's like flying a Cessna 150 or a Piper Cub! And, yes, not the same and can't be compared to the "Real McCoy!" My hat goes off to these hero's and their flying machines!

Definitely try the P-51 Michael!! I chose the Warwick Carter P-51 because it had a lot of add-on paints/liveries available. AND, it was free. Never owned an A2A payware aircraft, they look very nice and I bet their P-51 would be a very nice addition to any flight sim aircraft collection!

Have a nice day and thank you also Silver!

Rick :cool:

Hiya Rick!

Here are a few FSX A2A P-51 Military with Civilian repaints in P3D v5 Pro tooling around Stead, Reno...

Livery by Calico Jack

Livery by Deepdiver 8055

I don't think somebody would want to try and pass these in a air race though because it's the A2A Military versions with machine guns :)

I got sticker shock from the A2A website for the genuine P3Dv5 versions ($80.00 USD each!), so I found a way to install my old FSX WoP 3 P-47 Thunderbolt and P-51 Mustang versions to P3Dv5 Professional

Jack

P. S.

Hey Jack, nice post! My grandfather had a Gulf Oil distributorship in Fremont, Ohio. My Dad also had a Gulf Service station down here in Florida! Don't see that brand anymore, at least not down here! I like that chart you sent also. the P-51 is right up there! Cruise speed and range!

Yeah, A2A is very expensive, all my P-51's are freeware Warwick Carter! and I also have the Republic XP-72 if you don't have that! Hey, they're all good, just got to know where to go to get your "biggest bang for a buck!" Maybe I am cheap, but so far in all these years, I have managed to have almost 300 birds and they are all freeware! Not one single payware! If they don't fly right, they go to File 13 and I move on to the next one!

Nice to hear from you Jack, hope all is well with you and the family! In todays living, you never know what will be thrown at us next!

Take care my friend! - Rick :cool::cool:

Hey Jack, nice post! My grandfather had a Gulf Oil distributorship in Fremont, Ohio. My Dad also had a Gulf Service station down here in Florida! Don't see that brand anymore, at least not down here! I like that chart you sent also. the P-51 is right up there! Cruise speed and range!

Yeah, A2A is very expensive, all my P-51's are freeware Warwick Carter! and I also have the Republic XP-72 if you don't have that! Hey, they're all good, just got to know where to go to get your "biggest bang for a buck!" Maybe I am cheap, but so far in all these years, I have managed to have almost 300 birds and they are all freeware! Not one single payware! If they don't fly right, they go to File 13 and I move on to the next one!

Nice to hear from you Jack, hope all is well with you and the family! In todays living, you never know what will be thrown at us next!

Take care my friend! - Rick :cool::cool:

Yes, I see there is a duplicate post, think it would allow me to delete one of them? Not today! Sorry if you read the second one not knowing!