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Thread: Why only me........?

  1. Default No 'ILS' for me ........?

    Normally I spitt through almost the whole archive of 'old posts' before I decide to post a new thread.
    But It seems that in the whole wide FS world I am the only one who has this problem, so I have to 'come out' here.
    My FS live: FS5 FS6 FS7 FS8 FS9 FSX all the way from 5 1/4 flop to 500G SSD.
    In FS9 my ILS AP APPR landings with f.i. PMDG737 , PSS 757/777 QW 146/757 are 100% flawless, no matter what airport as long as the selected RW is ILS equipped :
    Appr, Flaps, Flare, TD, Auto Brake, Rev Tr, Idle, Taxi, Shutdown at the gate all without a problem.
    My ILS procedure(both FS9 and FSX): (Weather and ATC not active) Aircraft f.i. FSX QW B757.
    - check Charts for RW and Navaid details.
    - select appropriate ILS equipped RW.
    - Set ILS Freq NAV1/PED and ILS Course (not really needed)
    - Fly AC to beginning with HDG SEL and on RW HDG at minimal distance of 30NM and at Alt 4.000 ft.
    - Enter the approach at SPD 180 Mph Flaps 5
    - Fly the plane from here on Alt 4.000 ft but I set Altitude from here to - 0 -
    - Normally the ILS becomes active between the 30 and 25 nm. distance from beginning of RW.
    - wait for ILS to come in (the diamonds), set EFIS/AP to LOC first or straight to APPR.
    - check that ALT SET and VS are both -0-
    (Let AP APPR do the work without restrictions from possible ALT and VS Settings)
    - Usually I'm a bit low here so first I enter LOC to follow the LAT part of the ILS.
    - I start reducing speed and apply further flaps.
    - I deselect AT at 500ft and select SPD manually to VREF.
    - Now : the plane is flying on the correct RW heading and at an Altitude well below the expected Alt on which the GS will come in and at a speed that will allow for (Lat or Vert)corrections if needed.
    - Mostly my ILS problems start at this point: The plane will not hold RW/ILS HDG but starts to drift left or right to a point were I have to stop LOC and switch to HDG SEL and fly to the centre of RW HDG. The fun is allready gone for me.... Then I'm so bussy correcting the Lateral part that often I don't see that the required Descent path is way under my AC. So now I have to switch to complete manual landing because I know that the APPR will never correct the errors. I land the plane but I and in some state of frustration I end FSX and start reading the manuals again ( and again and....)
    Mostly I find my plane unable to maintain proper Localizer hold on the ILS HDG or the plane flies the correct localizer but simply
    will not, no way, descent when the diamonds are sinking below the <> mark.
    What makes me so sad is that I do 100% exactly the same things as in FS9 and there my ILS landings are so realistic and satifying. I consider myself a descent flyer but by no means a 'pro'
    My level is : FSBuild flightplan , Fuel/Weightplanner, AC, FMC programming, Initial Ref, Load Flightplan, startup Little-NavMap load flightplan. and fly the flight : LNAV and VNAV until transition to STAR.
    The inevitable question, I feel a bit embarrassed here, why do my FSX ILS Landings 'suck.........'
    My ILS landings in default FSX planes have the same issues, I know that default FSX planes will not
    flare before TD so manual flare is needed, no problem.
    I7 6700K GTX1050TI4GB 16GB-DDR4 SSD500GB
    C:/Steam////FSX SE , Flyaway Global Mesh, UTX-EUR, USA, CAN, ASK, ASIA , TAC , FSceneX
    Thanks for any advice here.... (I can take a 'punch' if needed.............)
    regards and stay safe, Peter
    Last edited by piet06273; 05-31-2020 at 05:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    Peter - Not sure anyone can help you with the storyline you have provided above! Wow!

    Why don't you trim down the story, tell us what airport you are flying into, runway selected, aircraft being flown etc. and the end result of disappointing ILS approach to landings. For most who might be able to help, they would try to recreate the approach to landing technique, if it works, then something you are doing wrong. Try that and see if someone might offer help! Hell, I might even give it a whirl!

    And you say, "What makes me so sad..................??" Come on Peter, we don't want you to be sad!

    Rick

  3. #3
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    Wow, that's hard to read. So let me break out your dashed segment:

    My ILS procedure(both FS9 and FSX): (Weather and ATC not active) Aircraft f.i. FSX QW B757.

    - check Charts for RW and Navaid details.
    What charts are you checking?
    - select appropriate ILS equipped RW.
    I presume that RW=runway
    -Set ILS Freq NAV1/PED and ILS Course (not really needed)
    What is PED? And yes, it's a waste of time to set the course on the OBS, since the AP ignores that on an ILS.
    - Fly AC to beginning with HDG SEL and on RW HDG at minimal distance of 30NM and at Alt 4.000 ft.
    Why 4000 feet? What does the chart that you consulted say? What if the field elevation (Denver maybe) is over 5,000 feet?
    - Enter the approach at SPD 180 Mph Flaps 5
    What do you mean "Enter the approach"? What part of the approach is this? Do you use the same 180 MPH (the AP wants knots) and "Flaps 5" on all aircraft?
    - Fly the plane from here on Alt 4.000 ft but I set Altitude from here to - 0 -
    This doesn't mean much to me? "Altitude from here to - 0- " ?? After reading below, Are you REALLY setting ALT to zero? (See my note below).
    - Normally the ILS becomes active between the 30 and 25 nm. distance from beginning of RW.
    The localizer portion may be received that far out, but the glide slope is unusable out there. And at some airports terrain may interfere with that distance. Do you do this for EVERY airport?
    - wait for ILS to come in (the diamonds), set EFIS/AP to LOC first or straight to APPR.
    Why the inconsistency on LOC or APR? The "diamonds" are the glide slope indication on your aircraft, right? Once you're established at the proper altitude on the localizer you can change to APR mode. Established means that your heading is less than 30º off of the LOC course. Now press APR and let the AP do it's job. If you have autothrottle, AND if it is engaged (it must be engaged and disengaged separately from the other AP functions) then the only thing you have left to do is to land the airplane AFTER disengaging AP and SPEED. Without speed control engaged, you must manually reduce power as the AP starts the descent.
    - check that ALT SET and VS are both -0- (Let AP APPR do the work without restrictions from possible ALT and VS Settings)
    You're setting ALT to -0- ? And why set VS? Let it alone, as that can mess you up.
    - Usually I'm a bit low here so first I enter LOC to follow the LAT part of the ILS.
    I guess you would be low with ALT at -0- feet. note that zero feet is below the airport most places.
    - I start reducing speed and apply further flaps.
    Where do you do this?
    - I deselect AT at 500ft and select SPD manually to VREF.
    500 feet is OK, but why are you now selecting SPEED HOLD? This is where YOU need to have speed control disengaged (it should be trimmed properly already) and adjust throttle(s) manually.
    - Now : the plane is flying on the correct RW heading and at an Altitude well below the expected Alt on which the GS will come in and at a speed that will allow for (Lat or Vert)corrections if needed.
    When is THIS Now? Below 500 feet YOU are flying, not the AP.
    - Mostly my ILS problems start at this point: The plane will not hold RW/ILS HDG but starts to drift left or right to a point were I have to stop LOC and switch to HDG SEL and fly to the centre of RW HDG.
    IF I'm correctly understanding what you are doing, you have set the autopilot Altitude Hold to 0 feet, which is at least part of your problem. That altitude should be set to the altitude (above sea level, that is, MSL) that you want the AP to hold until it catches the glideslope, at which time (if you're in the APR mode) the AP will follow the descending glide slope WITH NO CHANGE IN SETTING for ALT.

    I gotta go, so haven't yet completed my comments, but take a look at this part first. I'll be back with more, later. But try the settings I've mentioned above. BTW, this is a small part of why pilots go through a LOT of hours of training, just for IFR, not to mention all the other stuff.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  4. #4

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    I've noticed one glitch in the ILS on both FSX and FS9. I've flown the ILS approach from multiple distances many time and I've noticed one glitch. If I approach the ILS from 20-25 miles away (usually when the ILS ID (morse code) starts I'll engage the APPR, the aircraft will lock onto the LOC and fly to the runway. However, on FSX, FSX-SE, and FS9, if I engage the APP before the glideslope becomes active, the aircraft will not fly the glideslope. So now, on my long approaches, I will engage the APP to line up on the LOC but when the glideslope does become active I will dis-engage the APP, and will again engage the APP while below the GS and the aircraft will fly a perfect ILS. This seems to happen in every aircraft I have flown. Hope this helps. And setting the ILS course can be a huge help to visually tell you where you are in relation to the LOC. Once you get used to setting the course and seeing what it does on your instruments, you will never not set it again. Edit after more reading....set your altitude anywhere from 1800 (short approach) to 4000 (long approach) AGL depending on how far out you are and leave it there. Use the altitude the charts say if you go that route. I occasionally will use real world charts and they can be a real help. The AP will turn that off when it starts going down the GS. There is a site where you can get updated intersections to use todays charts. If you want more info on that feel free to let me know. I'll be happy to help.
    Last edited by mqytn; 05-31-2020 at 09:35 PM.

  5. #5
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    Once you get used to setting the course and seeing what it does on your instruments
    Hmmm... What DOES it do on the instruments? It should have no effect whatsoever, since the NAV radio on a localizer frequency ignores the OBS and there is nothing else that is affected by the setting, either. On a VOR freq, of course, the OBS has a large effect, but on the LOC it's useless.The LOC doesn't deal in radials, only in (basically) left/right, and it does that at four times the sensitivity that it uses on a VOR.

    Still, the biggest problem for Peter is that ALT set to zero.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    Hmmm... What DOES it do on the instruments? It should have no effect whatsoever, since the NAV radio on a localizer frequency ignores the OBS and there is nothing else that is affected by the setting, either. On a VOR freq, of course, the OBS has a large effect, but on the LOC it's useless.The LOC doesn't deal in radials, only in (basically) left/right, and it does that at four times the sensitivity that it uses on a VOR.

    Still, the biggest problem for Peter is that ALT set to zero.

    Thanks Larry! Yes, his post was rather long and confusing. I really didn't want to dissect his post as thorough as you have, but, maybe he will find his mistake in reading your reply! I thought if he provided us with Airport, RWY etc. one or more of us could fly the approach to make sure the error was on his part! BUT, let's see what he comes back with!

    Good job Larry! Have a nice evening! - Rick

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    Hmmm... What DOES it do on the instruments? It should have no effect whatsoever, since the NAV radio on a localizer frequency ignores the OBS and there is nothing else that is affected by the setting, either. On a VOR freq, of course, the OBS has a large effect, but on the LOC it's useless.The LOC doesn't deal in radials, only in (basically) left/right, and it does that at four times the sensitivity that it uses on a VOR.


    Still, the biggest problem for Peter is that ALT set to zero.
    I've known this since FS4. Just cool to see where the LOC is on the instruments. Can be helpful at times.

  8. #8
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    Op: TMI

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    And yes, it's a waste of time to set the course on the OBS, since the AP ignores that on an ILS.
    A waste of time? Depends on the gauge available IMO.

    On a simple VOR-indicator it's useless indeed.




    On a HSI-style gauge I set the ILS-course for general awareness.
    But as said, this has no influence on the AP behaviour.



    Wim

  10. #10

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    Probably not part of the issue, but the ILS will not work if you are set to GPS mode. You do set to Nav first, right?
    Spent way too much time using these sims...
    FS 5.1, FS-98, FS-2000, FS-2002, FS-2004, FSX, Flight, FSW, P3Dv3, P3Dv4

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