C-17 kicking my rump

I am not a pilot. I have about 400 hours on FSX. I crashed about 90 times before I landed anything successfully.

After I started catching on, I crashed about 50% of the time. In my last 200 hours I have not crashed UNTIL - I tried to fly the C-17.

I have some kind of learning disability with that airplane.

 

To give you some idea of what I'm used to, (i.e. can land without crashing) I have flown these

piper cub

beech 58

DC-3

beech king air

C-130

B29 super fortress

Bombardier Lear Jet

F-111

 

Those machines make sense to me. The C-17 does not make sense to me *yet.

 

Anybody want to chat about C-17, I could really use it.

 

--John

John,

Sounds like you use 'luck' to fly and then land your aircraft. I am curious as to WHEN you started flying in sim. There is a learning curve but the ONLY way to learn is by lots of practice. Not knowing what to do is what leads to crashes. Luck has nothing to do with it. Getting and using a check list will make you aware of WHAT needs to be done and HOW to do it. There are a lot of variables involved that must be taken into cosideration to achieve what you want to do: Take Off, Fly, then Land an aircraft.

 

So now: WHICH C-17 do you have? There are UKMIL, AlphaSim, Area 51, Mike Stone, POSKY, Owen Hewitt, and FSD models. And DON'T blame the airplane when it's YOUR fault (lack of knowledge, etc).

Chuck B

Napamule

The c17 is a very big aircraft. Make sure the aircraft is not full of fuel. Heavy aircraft are hard to control. They don't slow down or speed up quickly. So they don't respond quickly to your command making them hard to fly.

 

Most aircraft can't be landed safely with full fuel either. The aircraft also has to be below a certain weight to land.

 

In flight, press to see the menu bar, then click: Aircraft--Fuel and payload.

 

(if the numbers in that menu are red it is too heavy to fly at all. Reduce untill they are black.

When black it is not light enough to land yet, just to fly, so reduce further if you are going to be doing a short flight that will use little fuel.)

 

You can also reduce the payload (cargo). The C17 is a cargo aircraft that can carry huge loads. (same menu: Aircraft--fuel and payload.)

If the plane came with a manual, learn its v speeds and vref speeds for landing.

Not blaming the airplane. I like the airplane. I started flying in SIM a couple of months ago.

I love it.

Yes I am approaching this in a trial and error fashion augmented by the Learning Topics and missions in FSX, and the occasional Youtube vid. I agree that what I am doing does not, will not provide the foundational knowledge required to independently address complicated and unknown situations. I have been looking around for a Sim Flight School. I don't want to fly real airplanes.

 

I won't use the word "flying" because I'm sure you would object to that -- So, I will say I believe that C-17 that I have been riding around in, and cannot land it - was made by Virtavia.

Thank you TG ! That is great information. I'm on it !

When flying the C-17, give her lots of space when trying to land. I fly this aircraft alot for a virtual militaty group, and she is one of my favorites. When coming into an airport, get yourself aligned with the runway and setup about 10 miles, out, about 3000ft above the runway elevation, and have yourself setup at about 150kts and flap set up about 10 degrees. Once you past 10 miles, start a decent, going at about 700 to 800fpm. Getting near the airport at about 5 miles, add some more flaps, drop you speed to be about 135-140kts, and keep your eyes on the PAPI lights on the runway. Never let your speed drop below 130. Make little corrections as you come in, nothing jerky, she will bite you every time. I use the autopilot to bring her in, allowing me to make the little corrections. Once you get to about 1-2 miles, take over the control, but still be very gentle with her. If you don't like the setup, go around. But, this is the way I bring her in when I fly her.

The c17 is a very big aircraft. Make sure the aircraft is not full of fuel.

 

You can also reduce the payload (cargo). The C17 is a cargo aircraft that can carry huge loads. (same menu: Aircraft--fuel and payload.)

 

Like start shoving stuff out the back door, including the overweight co-pilot ! :-)

(we don't need these steekin' tanks )

 

Seriously though, Thanks for the helpful instruction. It made all the difference. I have landed it 3 times since factoring the weight.

I suspect once I start carrying heavy cargo, things will get complicated again, but I now know how to be within parameters.

All I ask is a fightin' chance :-)

 

Have a great day.

Getting near the airport at about 5 miles, add some more flaps, drop you speed to be about 135-140kts, and keep your eyes on the PAPI lights on the runway. Never let your speed drop below 130.

 

 

That - is exactly what I was looking for.

 

So, it can go that slow then. Another very helpful person pointed out to me that I couldn't land it full of fuel, which was exactly what I was doing. I was having to run it 250 knots just to get to the runway on descent which was causing havoc. I have since gotten my weights under and landed it 3 times. However, I did so at around 180 knots. Given my prior experiences (nose in the dirt a mile out) I have been reticent to try to slow her down too much. But I will now !

I got other advice to go study my V and Vref's. Well, I sure will, but my guess is.. that will translate in to what you just told me.

 

I'm going to take her out to Kelly, or Travis tonight. Some place with big runways and work on it til I get it right.

Thanks again.

Got to Edwards AFB. It's flat (desert) and you can use GPS to hand fly it in/out. I believe you don't use pitch trim (...180 kts). If you use + pitch trim you can reduce your speed and still be able to fly level (but descending). I know... not intuiative..but once you learn to use pitch trim you will wonder WHY nobody told you sooner. Get a panel that shows the pitch trim number (1.00, 3.00, 4.00, etc) so you can get an idea what '+1.00' versus what '+4.00' does. One example of vital use of pitch trim is carrier landings of the F-18. If the C-17 is real sensitive to inputs the pitch trim will allow you to practically let go of your controler (joystick/yoke) as you approach runway. You won't be pulling-then-pushing joy to where you are all over the place. Stay calm, use pitch trim, let it settle on runway, etc. Do it again.

Chuck B

Napamule

I believe you don't use pitch trim (...180 kts). If you use + pitch trim you can reduce your speed and still be able to fly level (but descending).

Napamule

 

I would love to have that. I was already thinking that was the missing ingredient. Two of the planes I fly have, what I believe to be, that exact functionality. The C-17 I fly has a button and a knob for it but they are not functional.

Now to be sure I am talking about the same thing you are - the 1,2,3... etc are called Alpha settings ?

 

I do try to pitch up for speed reasons when I am completely manual. Its hard to do. The plane wants to climb. So, ( I have never had lessons so I just sort of tried this) I starve the engine until it pitches but but wont climb. The result is not consistent. It can work great, it can stall the airplane, it can get me into a oscillation wrestling match with the joystick.

 

When I use the autopilot - is when I would really like to have a "pitch hold" if there is such a thing. The autopilot as is wants to nose down. I can make it stop that by cutting the engines but that has caused me other issues.

 

Anyway, even without good pitch skills - I have since learned how to slow those puppies down quite well, and I have even gotten the back wheels to hit before the nose gear !

 

Thanks for the tip. I was not aware there were instrument panels for sale other than what comes with the plane. I will have to look in to that.

It sounds like you are not extending flaps.

Try with full flaps first.

 

Set up a flight by saving a flight when 40 or 50 miles from landing. Then fly that saved flight over and to practice.

Do that practice in the default 747 a few times first. To learn using Flaps and trim.

 

In the 747 the kneeboard has the info about what speeds to fly. And info on maximum speed allowed for each flap setting.

The info in the kneeboard is essential to knowing what to do when landing. There are several info pages in the kneeboard btw.

 

Elevator trim commands can be assigned to a key in "keyboard assignments" menu.

 

Once you no longer crash the 747 try the c17 again. That aircraft most likely has no speed info and such in the kneeboard but the principle is the same. And from flying the 747 you will now know what a correct approach looks like and what extending the flaps and using trim should look and feel like. (and how to adjust if it does not feel right.)

Trim is used only while hand-flying. Elevator trim is used to control speed.

 

When flying on autopilot and autothrottle they are adjusting the trim. Don't trim manually while autopilot or autothrottle is on.

 

 

Oh, and get a joystick if you don't have one. Making fine throttle adjustments can't be done with the keyboard keys. The throttle handle on a joystick will be much more precise. (And steering will be more precise too.)

 

logitech3D joystick for example

If you use + pitch trim you can reduce your speed and still be able to fly level (but descending). I know... not intuiative..but once you learn to use pitch trim you will wonder WHY nobody told you sooner. Get a panel that shows the pitch trim number (1.00, 3.00, 4.00, etc) so you can get an idea what '+1.00' versus what '+4.00' does.

Chuck B

Napamule

 

NapaMule Chuck,

So, what do you mean by "get a panel?"

 

I'm inferring 3rd party replacement instruments? What kind you got ? (Napa right? Ha Ha)

 

(it's a serious question, couldn't resist the "poke")

Told me sooner? Well, I get "go read the book" a lot.

 

Elevator trim commands can be assigned to a key in "keyboard assignments" menu.

 

 

Elevator trim is interesting, or maybe I should say "pitch" is interesting. I can do pillow soft landings in the C17 now, but I have to cheat using the Sim views. Not that I plan to ever fly a real plane, but I still try to stay away from the Sim cheaters as often as possible.

 

When I was landing at 250 knots and running off the end of the runway, the nose gear was always hitting first. Now I am coming in at between 130 and 140 knots, floating like a feather, and can do it heavy loaded or empty. BUT , I cannot see the runway. I have to hit a button in FSX which magically removes the entire front of the airplane, including the instrument panel. That's way too hokey for me. Maybe in real life, pilots can scoot up and see over the panel? If that is true, then perhaps the Sim View cheat trick is excusable in this case. Or maybe good pilots don't need to see it? That is an argument for not pushing the "view."

 

At my stage of development, pitch is still a consequence, more so than anything I do on purpose. A result of speed, engine, flaps, landing gear, etc.. I guess I could say that my pitch is whatever I get after setting up all the other stuff. I don't yet know how to change that. Sure, I can pitch the nose down with the pitch trim but that speeds the plane back up, and has some bearing on ground effect -- pulls left or right near the runway more than when it is pitched up. I could be imagining that, but it seems to be the case.

 

The last thing I need, and truly the thing that still horrifies me is getting into an alignment wrestling match with that airplane at the last second while over the runway. I lose every time.

Hey, still learning. Thanks in advice for any comments.

Have you tried raising or lowering the seat? In the VC it's Shift+enter to raise and Shift+backspace to lower. In the 2D you are raising or lowering the field of view out the windscreen. Press and hold Ctrl+q to lower and Ctrl+Shift+q to raise.

Recrecs:

 

Just because it's a big plane do not not always mean it's more difficult to land: I find that large aircraft (in the sim anyway) are more stable on approach than small planes that often tend to wander a bit off the runway alignment.

 

FYI: An important factor in a successful landing is knowing the altitude of the destination airport above sea level...

Great to hear you are now floating it in at lower speed.:D

 

i use VC mainly. In VC you have less issue seeing the runway.

 

When flying an aircraft that has 2D panel only, I make the panel smaller. Every popup panel works like a Windows Window.

You can 'grab' the highest point on the popup panel with the mouse, and then 'drag it smaller'. (height gets smaller).

(You can make panels smaller in width as well, but for the main panel that's not very useful.).

Dragging height smaller means slightly smaller looking gauges, but it makes it easier to land.

 

(BTW, when dragging the panel smaller you will see the lower half of the screen shows only black. To 'fix' that in menu >Settings>Display, Set panel transparancy to a value greater then 0 (zero).

)

 

----

Also don't forget to zoom out the view. Try zooming out when parked on runway, and see how much more runway you can the see in front of you.

 

What else. Oh yes, looking at the plane from outside can be a very good way to see what the aircraft is doing when you are flying (and maybe also moving the controls). However, you should then use that knowledge to also learn to see what the plane is doing by looking at the artificial horizon indicator of your PFD. After a while reading the artificial horizon will become easier.

 

il.