Rudder control

So I got my rudder pedals today because frankly, as far as realism goes, I think having control of your surfaces is a primary concern.

That said, I really suck at it! I'm reading Flight Simulator for Real World Training (I'm guessing some of you know it) and trying to make coordinated turns with terrible results, my ball gets all over the place (especially when rolling out).

So I wonder.. any suggestions that might make it easier to get? I realize it's probably mostly a practice thing, nonetheless I'd appreciate any input. Also, was that so difficult for you too?

Welcome to FltSimCom. If you tell us what brand, and maybe what model, of pedals you have perhaps someone here has the same pedals and has experience calibrating it. Good luck.

Chuck B

Napamule

The first thing I'd do is reduce sensitivity on the rudder axis. And as Chuck says, it might help to know which pedals.

However, you must keep in mind that rudder/aileron response in FS, even more than the other controls and control combinations, is not well done in most of the FS models I've come across. But in general, you normally need to be somewhat gentle with the pedals, and often small corrections are better than large ones. Perhaps you are trying to horse the aircraft around (a common newbie mistake), so you might be a bit more gentle rolling in and out of turns, not being in a hurry. Perhaps you should get 2 or 3 thousand feet AGL, maybe somewhere that you can see crisscrossing roads for reference, fly level, and make gentle turns left 90º, then right 90º, then back left, then back right, maintaining straight and level for at least 10 seconds at the end of each turn before starting the next one. I'd start this exercise a little below normal cruise and then, when you've become somewhat comfortable with it slow down quite a bit, taking 3 or 4 speed adjustments to get down to between 5 and 10 knots above stall (this is the slow flight regime). Once you are comfortable with gentle turns in slow flight start doing climbing and descending turns the same way.

The above is somewhat like what we do with new flight students to get them used to making turns. You don't have to do it all in one session, but spend at least half an hour at a time doing this.

I'd also note that rudder coordination in a real aircraft is much easier than in a sim, partly because in a real aircraft you can feel the results of poor coordination in your butt.

There are many other exercises you can do, too, as shown in the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook Chapters 3 and 6.

I disagree with Larry. You may need to INCREASE the rudder axis for best effect:

https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=47744

How about dutch rolls???

The rolling maneuver often labeled "dutch rolls" is not easy for a beginner, and it's even more that way in the sim, since you have to do it visually only, not having the benefit of feel. Done too slowly you start to actually turn before starting to roll back the other way, and done too rapidly they usually cause the student to yaw the airplane in odd ways, mostly because of too much or not enough rudder pressure, so it's tough (not impossible) in the sim.

AND, I wanted to keep to simpler maneuvers. The so-called dutch rolls ARE a very good coordination maneuver, however. Basically, it's rolling into, say, a 30º bank as if you're starting a turn, but before the turn actually starts you roll back to 30º bank the other way, using the rudder pressure changes to keep the nose pointed in exactly the same direction.

Again, I wanted to keep it simple for Mark.

Thank you all for the advice.

I'm using the common Saitek (Logitech) rudder pedals. I have tweaked the fsx.cfg file to give me full linear response, I find it much better.. sure the movements have to be gentler but in general I feel more in control.

I'm starting to get better, slowly. I noticed for some reason it is much easier in the default Cessna than in the Cub, but I use the Cub beacuse I agree with the book's authors that not having instruments to fixate upon at this stage is probably for the best. Also, I'm starting to notice if I get it right by watching the nose.. it seems to me that the more it stays put, the more the ball will also stay centered.

What I still dont' get is this: when rolling out I slowly center the rudders (and it seems to work), but do I also have to push it a little in the opposite direction (past the center)? If I do, nose start wobbling.

I'm looking forward to feel it all for real. I was gonna make an (let's say) explorative flight soon, but it will be pushed back (probably by a lot) because of the current situation.

The default Cub has some weird responses to rudder when landing. But as to needing opposite rudder a bit, that's true of a real Cub, as well.

when rolling out I slowly center the rudders (and it seems to work), but do I also have to push it a little in the opposite direction (past the center)?

To understand this, you need to realize that the main purpose of the rudder is to counteract adverse yaw, which is caused by the downgoing aileron having more drag than the upgoing one. And since you have to add aileron to roll out of a bank, the rudder must be added with it. But there are also other factors involved in some of the odd-seeming behavior, such as the offset of the vertical fin and the offset of the engine thrust line, so some things will seem a tad odd. But this happens in real aircraft, too. Still, the default Cub has some odd things happen -- these aircraft "flight models" aren't perfect -- but mostly is similar to the real thing.

Still, and I've discussed this before, yaw behavior in so many sim aircraft (including all of the default ones that I've tried) is a bit odd. In a steep turn, for example, the nose wants to rise while the aircraft sinks, soon losing altitude almost uncontrollably, behavior that does not happen in any real aircraft. Also, especially easy to see from the 6 o'clock spot view when low and slow, is something I call a "slip/skid" problem. Do a medium turn when slow, perhaps 500-1000 feet AGL, then, after 90º or more of turn roll out to wings level. You'll still be sliding sideways a bit for a little while, something that doesn't happen to real aircraft (do this in no-wind conditions so you don't mistake it for wind drift). This can be fixed by playing with a couple of yaw parameters in the .air file, but I can't tell you what or how much, first because I can't do it well, and second because even a late friend of mine who was able to cure this completely on a one aircraft at a time basis took hours of experimentation for each aircraft, and they are all different.

I have tweaked the fsx.cfg file to give me full linear response, I find it much better.. sure the movements have to be gentler but in general I feel more in control.

That's good, since that more gentle movement gives more precise control -- it's not just you, or the sim -- in real life, too. Getting students to be gentle on the controls is something that all instructors have to spend a lot of time on.

if I do, nose start wobbling.

This is an anomaly of the default Cub. When landing, that nose wobble soon takes control away from you, so care is required for this non-realistic behavior.

I noticed for some reason it is much easier in the default Cessna than in the Cub,

This is true in real aircraft, also, and it's due (among other things) to the major design difference in the ailerons between the two aircraft. In the Cub the downgoing aileron and the upgoing one move the same amount, so there's lots of adverse yaw. This is true of most aircraft whose original design is from the same time period.

But in the Cessna, they made the ailerons move different amounts (differential aileron travel), such that the downgoing aileron only travels about a third as much as the upgoing one, thus reducing adverse yaw considerably. Most of the more modern aircraft designs use this differential travel to reduce adverse yaw.

Hope this helps your understanding a bit. Also, for additional information on the above, you can search Wikipedia for "adverse yaw" or other aerodynamic facts. You can also get some additional understanding from the Real Aviation Tutorials & FAQs section of the forum, towards the bottom of the main forum page. There is lots of stuff there that came from responses to forum questions over a number of years, and it's mostly how the real world behaves, but mostly applies to the sim, too.

First of all, this is the kind of answer I was looking for, so thak you. Also, Having a better understanding of the differences between sim and real is important to me.

My understanding of adverse yaw is superficial at best, though I will have some time on my hands to get into the FAA book. I'm not in the US but I'm sure it applies around the world.

So, as per your experience, can I get better realism with addon aircraft? Regarding flight behaviour I mean, I don't really care about looks. If so, any suggestion for GA/trainer aircraft?

Also, some think X11 is better in this regard. Is that true? I'm sticking to FSX anyway for the time being, but I'm curious what people who actually fly have to say.

Also, some think X11 is better in this regard. Is that true?

Some of the XP-11 aircraft might be better than a similar FSX model, but that's far from certain, in spite of the hype. You won't run into the "slip/skid" problem in X-Plane, but there can be other problems.

So, as per your experience, can I get better realism with addon aircraft? Regarding flight behaviour I mean, I don't really care about looks.

There may be some that are better, some that are worse, and some about the same.

If you PM me your email address, I can send you a modified FSX Cub that would behave somewhat better (my late friend did this one), though it still won't be perfect.