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Thread: Approach speed control

  1. #11

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    Thanks guys for all your reactions and yes Mr. Zippy, the default Mooney does in fact have visible spoilers/speed brakes but seemingly with no effect when deployed. I went into the Mooney's AIR file and found an entry "Spoilers available = FALSE" ?? I changed it into TRUE and this now does seems to have at least some effect.

    However, what I learned from this is that even although most (light) aircraft do not have visible spoilers and/or speed brakes, these can in fact be installed anyway and used to further reduce approach speeds when full flaps and extended gear have little or no effect. However, this will not become my standard practice but only for those aircraft with which I need to dodge hills and trees during already very flat approaches.

    Thanks again.

    Hans

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CRJ_simpilot View Post
    As a pilot you should be able to land a fully laden aircraft back to or near another airport with full load in case of emergency.
    Where on earth did you get that idea?

    Here's just one example:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51112630

    John

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhinson View Post
    Where on earth did you get that idea?
    CRJ_simpilot is correct. In case of a serious emergency you don't have much of a choice and there's no reason why this shouldn't be possible. Not all aircraft, not even all heavies, have the capability to dump fuel.

    Furthermore the worst case for the tires and brakes isn't an emergency relanding, but a rejected takeoff at MTOW.

    That said, specially with airliners this can be a very demanding maneuver and shouldn't be considered if not absolutely necessary.

    As long as you are staying below the max landing weight, everything is ok

    Mentioning weight was a good idea. I've seen too many youtube videos where people are flying around with 100% fuel, way over any limit.
    Last edited by pzl 104; 01-18-2020 at 11:07 AM.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnhinson View Post
    Where on earth did you get that idea?

    Here's just one example:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51112630

    John
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  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pzl 104 View Post
    As long as you are staying below the max landing weight, everything is ok
    Exactly so.

    John

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hjwalter View Post
    However, what I learned from this is that even although most (light) aircraft do not have visible spoilers and/or speed brakes, these can in fact be installed anyway and used to further reduce approach speeds when full flaps and extended gear have little or no effect. However, this will not become my standard practice but only for those aircraft with which I need to dodge hills and trees during already very flat approaches.
    I would not make any changes to an aircraft's files unless you know that they are wrong.

    The descent and approach will take some planning and you will have to start early enough.

    Walk us through one of your approaches and then we can give some more input.
    -Wich aircraft.
    -Altitudes.
    -Speeds.
    -Descentrates.
    -Distances.
    -Powersettings.
    -Configurations.
    -Times.
    Last edited by jeroen79; 01-19-2020 at 07:34 PM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by pzl 104 View Post
    What's the maximum rate of descent you can achieve with full flaps and gear down at e.g. 100kts?

    For drag verification; Engine out glide speed is 92kts and the ROD should be ~800fpm
    Finally an educated response versus a guess.

  8. #18

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    Jeroen79,

    The aircraft in my example is the default Mooney Bravo.
    The VFR approach altitude is an almost flat 500 ft AGL already from a long distance in my efforts to reduce the plane's speed before touchdown.
    The speed is then between 70 and 80 knots, nose high.
    The load is 30% fuel. All further loads are default.
    The descent rate is not fixed, e.g. via autopilot and is as low as possible to avoid increasing speed.
    The distance from the runway touchdown point can be as much as 6Nm.
    Power setting: Idle.
    Configurations: Full flaps and gear down.
    Times: Day, VFR

    I've initially made a change in the plane's aircraft.cfg file (flap drag entry from 1.0 ----> 2.6). The "Spoilers Available= FALSE ----> TRUE" edit in it's AIR file, seems to help as well.

    Could this "FALSE" entry have been an original AIR file error ? Can any of you guys confirm this seemingly original entry ? Am I the only one who had this Mooney Bravo speed reduction problem ?

    Regards, groeten.

    Hans
    Netherlands

  9. #19

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    You can do turns (right, left, back to straight at Rnwy) and reduce speed that way. You can also make sure you land into the wind. Ever try doing an ILS landing using AP to use as a 'teaching' tool?

    For crying out loud - the Mooney is practically a Cessna but with 2 engines. Doesn't make sense that you 'can't slow down'. Something (we can't tell WHAT) is amiss here. Did you 'soup' the Mooney up by changing engine values in cfg or air? Did you change ANYTHING in cfg or air? Fess up dude!
    Chuck B
    Napamule
    PS: you can be doing aproach at 500 kts at 1 NM out in a heavy or military jet and slow to 120 kts to land. How? DRAG: gear, flaps, spoiler settings in AIR file. It would not be 'real' but it can be done. But the MOONEY? Come ON!
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  10. Default

    Just out of curiosity (because I've had the problem before), are you certain your throttle is actually reaching idle in the sim, and that you're not inadvertently carrying extra power? IIRC, a quick press of F1 should make sure the throttle fully retards to idle.
    Last edited by nagpaw; 01-21-2020 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Added the last sentence.

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