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Thread: Virtual Cockpits?

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post

    Enough. Use "2D" panels? OK, have fun. Not like the VC? OK, that's fine. But don't tell me that 2D is more realistic.
    I have also given reasons against all your arguments. I haven't ignored anything.
    Mark Daniels

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pzl 104 View Post
    How do you know that 2D is much more realistic since you have apparently never used e.g. FSX, P3D, Aerofly FS2 and DCS?
    Where did I say that I have never used those? I said I'd stay with FS9. Stop reading things that aren't there. And quote my whole post. Not bits and pieces that you think might bolster what you think you read.
    Last edited by bam1220; 01-12-2020 at 01:16 PM.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    I hope so. Like Oscar, I use TrackIR. It boosts realism a LOT. Even without TrackIR, I never cared much for the so-called 2D "cockpits" -- really just a picture of a panel.
    Quote Originally Posted by pzl 104 View Post
    I'm not sure if these are tongue in cheek comments, but I think so since there are simply no flat panels IRL and you usually don't sit at a 90deg angle in front of the panel, except the Ryan NYP.

    It's absolutely beyond me how someone can call a VC cheesy and cartoonish. Contrary to 2D panels I've seen a lot of VCs which can't be distinguished from real cockpits.

    2D panels maybe (still) ok for IFR only trainers without any scenery, but for any other simulation they are real immersion killers. Can't imagine landing any aircraft in an acceptable realistic way with a 2D panel.

    I'm quite sure that not a single real pilot will agree with your opinion about the stone age 2D panels in a sim.

    No flat panels in the real world? Huh? Unless they curved...? Seemed pretty flat when I flew in the little Warrior 2 back in the day. ** headscratch.

    ALL VC’s are cartoon like. Haven’t seen a good one yet. The milviz 350 a good emample. The VC like many others - looks like it’s made of play dough.
    Just the result of the different format / model thingy for displaying I guess . 2D have much better ability match the real thing visually using photos. edetroits panels being a good example. Just a shame he hates the flightsim world enough to not share them. Sad person.

    But remember we are using it on a flat screen. VC Doesn’t translate well unless we had a real hardware instrument panel in front of us sitting inside a virtual bubble screens or visuals. Bubble boy.

    The whole planning thingy and ridiculous head movement of VR seems over the top. Hard to say what it’s actually trying to replicate. The head of eyes? Seems to hurt watching it.

    I easily find flying in 2D is much more enjoyable and realistic. The 2D snap views take care of any view changes.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSMR View Post
    No flat panels in the real world? Huh? Unless they curved...? Seemed pretty flat when I flew in the little Warrior 2 back in the day. ** headscratch.
    I easily find flying in 2D is much more enjoyable and realistic.
    Didn't know that your Warrior panel was a cardboard one without any knobs, that the instruments were flush with the panel, the different items didn't cast any shadows, etc.

    There still are apparently some people who find 2D panels more enjoyable, but more realistic? No way.
    If you think that Milviz makes the most realistic VCs then you are looking at the wrong add-on companies and/or flightsims.

    I really don't understand why some people still claim that VCs are cartoonish etc. while it's already sometimes impossible to distinguish a VC photo from a real cockpit photo.

    Didn't see a cartoonish one in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

    The last time 2D panels where somewhat more realistic than VCs was when the gauge update rate/resolution in the VC was lower than on a 2D panel.
    Last edited by pzl 104; 01-13-2020 at 01:19 AM.

  5. #35

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    I quit bothering to develop 2d panels nearly a decade ago. Why? Because upon polling my customers I found that precious few ever used them simply because my 3d VCs were too darn good to ignore!

    Creating 2d panels and gauges nearly doubled the amount of time needed to complete a project and simply added overhead costs that were not justified by the return.
    Bill Leaming
    Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations
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    NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...

  6. #36
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    Some VC's look amazing and yes, others look cartoony awful. As for TrackIR and other VC gear, you may enjoy it but I don't particularly want to have more hardware on my head. My teenage son laughs at me enough already. Headphones are enough, thanks.

    If a payware plane doesn't have a 2D panel, with rare exception, I won't buy it. Freeware, there's often ways to add a suitable 2D panel with extra work if one isn't included, sometimes not. All my favorite FSX aircraft have 2D panels, and I fly them that way.

    Personally I find the VC experience more akin to "flying a camera" than flying a plane, and for me, it's not enjoyable. Sorry, but much of the time I disable the VC, stop wasting any RAM on them. No disrespect intended to those who work so hard on them, really.

    If the new flight simulator doesn't have 2D panel support, I hope at least there will be a better VC user experience than what we've seen before, with easier, less cumbersome view control.

    Don't believe all the polls you see, Bill. The popularity of flightsim 2D panels is alive and well.
    Last edited by ftldave; 01-15-2020 at 10:31 AM. Reason: add txt

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by n4gix View Post
    I found that precious few ever used them simply because my 3d VCs were too darn good to ignore!
    From reading 2D panel users points of view, I think this makes zero difference to them.

    For myself, a VC can look a million times better than a 2D panel graphically but it would make no difference to me whatsoever. Until I can have independent zoom of VC and outside view with natural looking perspective I'm not interested. Until I can have the ability to as efficiently flick switches or adjust dials as with a 2D panel I absolutely will not touch one.

    When it comes to appearance, the best/most visually enjoyable cockpit I've ever seen is a 2D panel. Hold on to your hat folks, it's also from a FS9 freeware developer. Yes, that ancient sim that's no good!
    The panel is more enjoyable visually imo than any VC I've seen from even the most recent and/or expensive VC add-on aircraft for any of the more modern sims.

    I think the move away from 2D panels by developers was a mistake. While it's possible to say VC's have come on leaps and bounds, well, likely the same thing would be said if people had continued to develop 2D panels. Heck, you might even find VC users switching to 2D! It's certainly happened in the past. There is enough in this post alone to demonstrate why there is nothing to say it could not happen again.

    It can't happen if developers are not producing high quality 2D panels.
    Last edited by Skywatcher12; 01-15-2020 at 07:44 PM.
    Mark Daniels

  8. #38
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    “If a payware plane doesn't have a 2D panel, with rare exception, I won't buy it.”

    Guessing Carenado aircraft are nowhere to be found in your hangar... lol
    Dell XPS X8300 Intel core i7-2600(3.4 GHZ,8 MB Cache) 8 GB memory 1.5 TB HDD 2 GB Nvidia 1050 ti graphics card Windows 7

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher12 View Post
    I think the move away from 2D panels by developers was a mistake. While it's possible to say VC's have come on leaps and bounds, well, likely the same thing would be said if people had continued to develop 2D panels.
    I agree. 2D panels fell from grace when 16:1 ratio LED widescreen monitors replaced the old 4:3 ratio CRT screens. All 2D panels are designed to fit a 4:3 ratio screen, and become stretched sideways when viewed on a 16:1 ratio screen. FS Panel Studio has never been updated and still works in 4:3 ratio, so creating a 16:1 ratio panel is mostly a manual task.
    I can accept that an entire 16:1 ratio 2D panel is a lot of work, but most 2D pop-up windows in VC-only aircraft are also stretched sideways which seems like laziness to me - all it takes is a slight reduction in the 2D window's screen position width, not a full redesign of the window itself.
    Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."
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  10. #40

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    Scrolling through these four pages makes me feel like I've stumbled over a thread resurrection, but no, it's an actual 2020, not 2002 thread! ROFL.

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