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Thread: why every pilot should have glider experience (with reviews of glider/soaring sims)

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pzl 104 View Post
    I don't know what kind of glider is 'pointed down at a pretty extreme angle' during the approach and with the divebrakes etc. you can control the gliding angle and hence gliding distance within a pretty big range.

    It seems that you are severely underestimating e.g. airline pilots and their abilities/training.

    If it's a heavy 777 or a medium sized A320, we routinely do train all engine out approaches, even in IMC with a low ceiling.

    They key to success in this case is crew coordination, not gliding experience

    Furthermore every GA pilot trains engine out approaches as well and with the low LD ratio of a C-152 engine out landing are definitely a challenge and require considerable skills since there's not much room for adjustment.
    primary gliders liker the 1 in the photo have no dive brakes or spoilers. and just to speed up to approach speed your pointed down at 25 or 30 degrees ..maybe less but when your sitting on whats basicly a lawnchair out in the open air, it sure seems like an extreme angle. approach speed i would guess is a 3-1 glideslope steeper then a cessna at best glide slope.
    and thats my point
    when every single landing is an engine off approach where you have to get it perfect every rtime its nit just a matter of training once and forgetting it, but its muscle memory, something your extremely proficient at

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
    Perhaps you should look up the profile on Iuss. He, like many of us either, is or was a RW active pilot with lots of hours.

    And yes, as a disabled RW pilot, I now fly sims exclusively. But that doesn't put me or any one else in a position to judge others or their point of view.

    Especially since this is a free site, we mostly try to avoid making overreaching statements. Instead we tend to enjoy our hobby/s and try to get along.
    as a disabled pilot you should be extra interested since soaring is the most accessible form of flight, and you can get back in the air www.freedomswings.org that i'm on the board of over 40 years ago added hand controls to a glider and now itts a standard option on dozens of gliders
    in fact
    this guys 1 of the worlds best
    Name:  wgc.jpg
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    thats from the world glider championships last year

    i never expected such a negative argumentative group

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrzippy View Post
    I know Larry is tired of stressing this....Lnuss.. small l and last name. We will all get it right sometime in this new year!
    huh?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by soaringeagle View Post
    huh?
    Many folks read that lowercase L as an uppercase I. As Zippy is indicating, the login ID is (I'll do it in upper case) LNUSS, not INUSS. Or, reading the name towards the bottom of my post you can see that my name is Larry. And Zippy's post included a quote of the post to which he was replying -- I say that so you can see who he was talking to.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    Many folks read that lowercase L as an uppercase I. As Zippy is indicating, the login ID is (I'll do it in upper case) LNUSS, not INUSS. Or, reading the name towards the bottom of my post you can see that my name is Larry. And Zippy's post included a quote of the post to which he was replying -- I say that so you can see who he was talking to.
    Thanks, Iarry!

    I can see where this new decade is heading!
    Last edited by mrzippy; 01-01-2020 at 05:14 PM.
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

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  6. #16
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    @soaringeagle

    Sorry and apologies for some of our nonsense here. As you can probably tell, there is not much of a group here that is interested in gliders or soaring. I have done a few of the soaring Mission in my Sim and was glad when I got them completed.

    I have checked over at AVSIM (where I am a moderator), and also at the Simouthouse and can't really find any posts that show an interest in soaring.

    I have been into the flightsim forums since 2012 and have only seen one or two mentions of soaring or the soaring/glider Missions.
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    Emachines T3418 AMD 3400+ processor 2GHZ/256KB L2 Cashe 2Gig Ram 160Gig HDD NVidia GEForce 6100 GPU Running WinXP Home Can't believe it still works! Running FSX Standard with SP1 and SP2

  7. #17
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    i never expected such a negative argumentative group
    Perhaps it comes from jumping in on your very first post with a very long post with lots of links that take forever to load and coming with such hype, promoting a program (it seems to me) with the tone of the post being that EVERYONE really NEEDS your program, coming on like a used car salesman. And doing all this from someone we've never heard of.

    This approach of yours comes across as blarney, as if you're the only one who knows about gliding/soaring, and with a hard-to-take "tone of voice" that tends to repel some of us.

    Ease off, try to get to know your audience here, and take a more gentle approach to your sales tactics -- yes it's sales, even though it may not be for money, as such -- and maybe you could get a bit more interest and less of a "negative argumentative group."

    And just so you know, I do have a Commercial Pilot certificate with Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Glider. I'm also a former CFII. The only reason I mention this is to let you know that yes, I do have a pertinent aviation background.

    primary gliders liker the 1 in the photo have no dive brakes or spoilers. and just to speed up to approach speed your pointed down at 25 or 30 degrees
    I'm not sure which photo you mean, but without SOME means of generating a fair chunk of drag gliders can be somewhat dangerous to land, ESPECIALLY at the "25 or 30 degrees" nose down attitude. And check out the Schweizer 2-33 as a primary glider, which has BOTH spoilers AND dive brakes. Yes, there are a few with only flaps (drag generators), but SOMETHING has to generate that drag, especially for student pilots and low experience pilots, else there would be all kinds of problems with such pilots getting them on the ground.

    OK, enough said.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrzippy View Post
    Thanks, Iarry!
    You're welcome, Sharlie.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soaringeagle View Post
    primary gliders liker the 1 in the photo have no dive brakes or spoilers. and just to speed up to approach speed your pointed down at 25 or 30 degrees ..maybe less but when your sitting on whats basicly a lawnchair out in the open air, it sure seems like an extreme angle. approach speed i would guess is a 3-1 glideslope
    Your description of primary gliders looks like you are referring to 1930s gliders like the SG38 but even with that one your 3-1 glideslope guess is far off. It's almost 9:1 and nobody learns to fly on such an aircraft.

    I don't know why you want to make the impression that gliding is something complicated or requires great precision while it is in fact the among the most basic and easiest form of flying.

    1. Even if you have never flown before you can expect to be released for your first solo after only 30 short flights.
    2. You can start working on your glider license and fly solo at the age of 14.
    3. To get a gliding license you need only 6hrs total and 3hrs of solo flying.
    4. The approach speed for basic gliders is less than 40kts so there's not exactly a high degree of precision required to hit an airfield which has a runway that's a few hundred meters long.

    Gliding is very easy, rather cheap and great fun and hence it's highly recommended to get people into flying.

  10. Default

    a 233 is a sailplane, meaning it is capable odf usinglift and gaining height.
    a primary glider like the old biplanes have no surfaces to create drag except the fusalage itself, steepening the glide slope is accomplished by slip only.
    however the primary gliders glide slope is already so steep that your pretty much on final from launch. (from a ridge top into a valley, or often bungy launched and landing in the same feild you launch from)



    they have no cockpit, open air.
    the wright flyer is an example of a primary glider


    the reason the soaring missions are barely mentioned is.. they suck.. sure its a taste of what soaring is, how to thermal or use ridge lift.. thats it
    it doesn;t compare to the thrill of racing through the alps at 5 knots below vne for 600 miles (i've actualy done 14 1/2 hours and 1300 miles world record distances twice)

    and to the guy going on and on about sales
    information is not sales its information

    when your flying a cessna or a mig, are you constantly aware of where you will land if you lose an engine? do you always know at every moment how far you canmake it based on altitude if your engine fails?
    this is why, no matter what you fly, if you have glider experience, your always automaticly a better pilot

    i believe a cessna is roughly 5-1 a 747 13-1 a wingsuite is similar to a primary glider 3-1 while sailplanes are 40-1 to 70-1
    ofcourse your speed changes that.. thats at your best lift/drag speed
    knowing the performance of your plane, any plane, power off at a specific speed letsyou know whether you can make it to an airfield, or, like skully, have to land in a river or field.

    then you can look at many airline accidents that were the result of pilot error.
    1 in particular comes to mind when the ap suddenly kicked off
    in this plane the pilot and copilots controls were not linked but the pilots overrode the copilots
    when the ap went off the pilot pulled back on the stick to prevent a dive causing astall, the copilot did the right thing and pushed forward. it wasn't untill they were at 2500 ft that the copilot asked wait, are you pulling back on the stick? and by that point, there was no hope for recovery.. the pilot, too dependent on the ap, held it in a stall till it was too late.

    this is again a case where having the experience of "pure flight' unpowered, not reliant on advanced avionics, and 100% hands on stick flying the pilots reactions would have been appropriate for the situation, and the crash averted.

    i don't see how info that could be lifesaving is 'agressive sales pitches'

    and i only mentioned our org because of the fact that our founder who has multiple world records prefers gliders. in fact, our chief safety officer just recently earned his master pilots rating.. a rating very few in history ever achieve. yet he too prefers gliders.

    i would suggest you search out 'virtual soaring' forums. the soaring/glider dynamics in most sims just suck.. like for instance in fsx the tow rope just waggles around comically with no realism at all.
    but when it comes to soaring sims, (especialy the competition soaring sims like condor) theres a very active community. and i would say 99-100% are realworld glider pilots.
    several are some of the top competition pilots.
    in the european condor club condor-club.eu the top pilot has flown over 250,000 miles


    and to the same guy thats been kinda nasty with all the sales talk
    yes its my 1st post
    is this how you welcome new members?
    actualy been a member a few years probably from when i wasted alotta $ on fsx and addons and weather mods (i'm only interested in soaring) and it just was so lacking
    here this kinda covers the whole history of soaring
    it was orville wright who thought, and was right, that unpowered flight would someday be sustainable for up to 10-12 hours and hundreds of miles, even over 1000

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