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Thread: VR should be front and centre

  1. Default VR should be front and centre

    I’ve been simming for 20 years on and off. Even when I didn’t have the money, time or space to sim I always bought PC Pilot to stay abreast with what was going on. Last year I came into inheritance and decided to go full pelt and buy a Wired2fire I7, GTX 1080 Ti 11GB powerful computer. I also was gifted a VR Vive pro for my birthday yes I know, very lucky boy. The computer was a massive gamble on VR. The reason I gambled 1. Couldn’t take PPL lessons due to migraine. 2. Had a hunch that VR was going to be the next best thing with regards to simming.
    Ok here is the thing... if I could sit on my backside and fly around the world in VR for the next 20 years none stop I probably would. I jest but VR is outstandingly brilliant compared to a monitor. There’s no comparison it just is. I’ve watched most of the YouTube videos with regards to the new MSFS 20 and have to say it looks great. What is utterly disappointing is that they seem to be neglecting VR which would be tragic if this turns out to be the case. IMO if VR is incorporated into the new MSFS 20 then it’s not only going to be a game changer for us simmers its going to take off the like we’ve never seen before. I fly around in Xplane VR with quite a lot and have ORBX GB Earth scenery installed all over the UK. It’s brilliant and still have to pinch myself from where I was in the early 2000’s. Flying FSX and having auto save installed just in case it froze on a long flight somewhere. Now in VR I can sit in economy on a 737-800 and look at the window as if it was real.
    Anybody who’s thinking of making the jump to VR I can only say do it do it do it. You won’t regret it.👍🏻

  2. #2

    Default

    IMHO: Functional Accuracy in a "sim" must be the defining issue of any "sim." And that is where the time and money is best spent. Don't misunderstand me, I love pretty pictures and scenery as much as anyone. Having said that, if my aircraft doesn't "fly" correctly I don't care how pretty the scenery is. I'm not looking for a travelog.

    As an old, disabled pilot, I'm looking for an accurate simulation of RW time so I can be in the cockpit once again! Anything more, like pretty scenery is just a bonus.

    Rupert
    i9-9900K CPU currently running 5gig + -, Aorus Z390 LGA 1151 MB, Kraken X61 280 mm water cooler, Corsair RM850X PS, Planteks full size tower, 64gig of DDR4 3200 RAM, EVGA 1080 GPU, 4TB "Black" HD, 1Tb SSD, joystick, rudder pedals, yoke, multi control panel, three monitors set up for panaramic views, Bose surround sound system, and a ton of powered usb ports.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Another factor to consider, although a minor one I'll admit, is that not everyone can use VR. I don't mean simply don't want to, it doesn't work for some. Why? Only one eye makes VR non-operational. You need two functional eyeballs to use VR.
    Probably a very minor consideration to the developers, but I would rather, like Michael, have them work hard on a functional simulation of how the various aircraft actually fly, than make the pictures look pretty. Obviously, since I can't use VR, it really doesn't even enter to my considerations of a new sim at all. At least until someone mentions it. Then, if it is a "VR only" type sim, well, I just ignore it.

    I would say to file all complaints about my attitude towords VR with the horse I ran into on my motorcycle, that caused my loss of an eyeball, but he died at the scene. Just what he was doing on my motorcycle I will never know...


    Have fun, whatever you enjoy using...
    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

  4. #4
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    I'll have to agree with Michael and Pat, in that VR is just icing on the cake for what should be an actual simulation, working well on a normal monitor, and pretty much complete before they add VR*, IF they do. I do have two eyes, though one isn't great, but I've not yet been able to get enthused about a ton of apparatus on my head (TrackIR is very light, and I just wear a ball cap), so TrackIR or something similar ought to be available, but even before that, get it right!



    * I don't object to them including the capability for VR, but it shouldn't be high priority before everything else is done right.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    I'll have to agree with Michael and Pat, in that VR is just icing on the cake for what should be an actual simulation, working well on a normal monitor, and pretty much complete before they add VR*, IF they do. I do have two eyes, though one isn't great, but I've not yet been able to get enthused about a ton of apparatus on my head (TrackIR is very light, and I just wear a ball cap), so TrackIR or something similar ought to be available, but even before that, get it right!



    * I don't object to them including the capability for VR, but it shouldn't be high priority before everything else is done right.
    I do not now, now will I plan for use of VR.

    It's had many years of development and STILL it's useless with Flight Simulation. So bleating for it doesn't make it either;
    1: Desirable
    2: Worthy of Debate in `future feature` requests.

    Happy to look at it again in, say, a further ten tears, by which time the technology should be lighter, faster, and hopefully actually usable

  6. #6
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    Asobo has already said they are working on supporting VR in the sim. However, they have also said it isn't just going to be slapped on and they want to make sure it actually works for a flight sim. The sim did originally grow out of a MS Hololens project they had worked on with MS, so they are familiar with VR.

    Personally, I agree with the points about prioritizing the fundamental features of a flight sim first over VR. VR still feels too much like a stopgap on the road to something better, perhaps some sort of AR/MR.

  7. #7
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    Hi, I’ve been flight simming for over 20 years and have had every version of MSFS since FS4, plus many others including X-Plane.
    Until a couple of years ago, I’ve had a home made cockpit in the spare room (of sorts).

    Two years ago I bought an Oculus Rift & as a result I decided to dismantle the cockpit.
    I was blown away with the VR experience. In my opinion, once you’ve flown with VR, you will never go back to a monitor. There is no comparison. You just don’t get that immersion from monitors. With VR you are no longer sat looking at a cockpit... you are sat in a cockpit!

    From what I’ve seen & heard about the new flight simulator it will not have VR on launch, but they are working on it. I reckon it’ll have VR within a few months & I can’t wait!

    Regards
    Steve

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mallcott View Post
    Happy to look at it again in, say, a further ten tears, by which time the technology should be lighter, faster, and hopefully actually usable
    It's got a long way to go, expensive and a very small user base. Personally, I'll be surprised if they bother with it. I know they have made mention of VR but is there anything they have simply said no too? It's all being looked at or in the pipeline. lol
    Mark Daniels

  9. Default

    Steve your absolutely right!

    I'm not the type to get carried away with excitement but VR is quite brilliant for simming.
    I fly all over Europe with VR. I could never return to just using a monitor even the new curved ones don't get close. Microsoft really could start the mainstream revolution if they adopt VR.

    Hopefully in the future someone will come up with an affordable home motion simulator to have 100% immersion.

    The future.

    360 Home motion simulator.
    VR headset with 4k resolution.
    MSFS 20.

    Could it get any better than this for the flight simmer. I think not.

  10. Default

    For Real World pilots the sim is used as a tool. In order to have a useful tool you must have sufficient throughput in the available hardware to present / simulate flight as clearly and as fluid as possible.
    If you cannot have a display that is readable, and updates of the instruments, and views, as possible you do not have a simulator.
    The present day the required power to present a good, crisp, useful VR environment is just not there. VR is still too demanding to be used in anything else other than some games that are less complex and or special demos specifically design to demo VR, and have no need for complex code. Flight simulation does not fit into that categories.
    I've tested a number of VR sets, and 3D monitors, over the years and did not find any that give you that smooth and clear updates required to give you the feel that is useful as a tool.
    I find that even 4K resolution is barely sufficiently clear, smooth, and crisp to have a credible instrument panel and maintain that real time, fluid sensation and clear view expected / needed. I have a fairly powerful system and using VR is just not presently acceptable.
    The present sims have sufficient controller assignments that allow you to switch views, look around, as long as you can get a good, basic, starting view location.
    VR, smoke / particles, reflections, head bobbing, eye blinking.. is no benefit to real RW pilots that want to use this as a tool.
    It is a good idea to have the VR hooks needed for some future development but not something that would take away from what is important and what the systems are able to handle presently.

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