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Stalling


Jim Hall

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Thank you Larry (Top Gun) for suggesting I purchase the book Stick and Rudder. Only now am I learning how to fly by understanding rather than trial and error. Every new pilot should read and understand this book early on. It is a confidence builder.

 

Having said that, I am flying the practice flights in the book one of which is stalling--increasing the angle of attack until there is no more lift on the wing, and the plane is supposed to drop, not descend. I fly the Cessna 172 Skylark that comes with FSX--and it won't stall. I fly straight and level at 3000' at 2300 rpm's and 0 deg attitude, then reduce rpm's gradually trying to maintain altitude:

 

2300 rpms -- 98 knots

2000 rpm's --80 knots

1700 rpm's -- 60 knots

1500 rpm's -- Still 60 knots but descending 250 ft/min

1400 rpm's -- 60 knots, 300 ft/min

1200 rpm's -- 60 knots, 500 ft/min

Cut to Idle Power still keeping full back on yoke -- Descending 700+ ft / min BUT DESCENDING NOT DROPPING. Every once in awhile the nose will move down a bit like it wants to stall, but the additional small amount of speed pulls the nose back up and no stall. Now I'm thinking when I round out landing I'm not stalling but descending onto the runway. What do you guys think?

i7-7700k @ 4.2 Ghz, 16 GB DDR4/3000,2280 SSD M.2,Genome II Case,Nvidia GTX 1080 rear exhaust, Samsung 40" HDTV & Two 24" HP side monitors. Redbird Alloy yoke, pedals, and throttle. A single Saitek Instrument Panel and Cessna trim wheel. Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers. Windows 10 64 bit. 58 measured Mbps.
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Unfortunately, Jim, the default FSX aircraft don't replicate stalls, spins or slips well at all. So it's a limitation of the sim aircraft, not of what you are doing, which, in real world aircraft, would give you what you have come to expect.

 

Now I'm thinking when I round out landing I'm not stalling but descending onto the runway. What do you guys think?

A full stall landing in a tri-gear is a rare event in real life*, but is more common in tailwheels. So yes, when you flare and touchdown in the C-172 it's not a full stall, but rather a slow speed touchdown, which is what you are after.

 

In a real C-172 you'd normally do what you are doing in the sim, that is, get the aircraft very slow while holding it six inches or so off the ground, then let it gently touch just above the stall. You really have to work at it in a real one to get a full stall before touchdown, and you'd better not be much more than a foot or so off the ground when that happens or you're in for a rough touchdown and, if you were too high at the stall, perhaps damage the nosewheel or worse.

 

I know Wolfgang talked about a full stall landing a lot#, but mostly for tailwheels. And, just as a side note, most of the (real) tailwheels I've flown aren't quite stalled in a 3-point landing, either. To do a full stall in, for instance, the L-21 (military Super Cub; see my avatar) I owned I'd have to touch down tailwheel first which, in that aircraft, isn't bad but isn't necessary either. The one exception to the above in my experience was the Stearman, which had so much drag that once the aircraft was in a 3-point attitude## it stalled and would drop to the ground from there -- as a result we used the wheel landing much more than the three-point variety. But the one I flew was also heavier than the stock one, and had a metalized fuselage (more weight) and a 300 HP Lycoming with a constant speed prop.

 

So you're doing just fine on your landings with that not-quite-stalled touchdown, just as it should be.

 


* In many aircraft a full stall landing would result in touching the tail tiedown ring about the time the mains touched.

 

# Many (not all) of the aircraft which existed in Wolfgang's day had slightly different characteristics than you're likely to see today, though not hugely so, and those differences are beyond the scope of this post.

 

## The Stearman landing gear affected that, since once airborne those oleos would extend a foot or so additional, so the attitude you saw on takeoff before the tail lifted wasn't the sight picture you'd need for landing, which would need the nose even a touch higher, sometimes leading to touching the mains first and a consequent bounce.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Thank you Larry (Top Gun) for suggesting I purchase the book Stick and Rudder. Only now am I learning how to fly by understanding rather than trial and error. Every new pilot should read and understand this book early on. It is a confidence builder.

 

Having said that, I am flying the practice flights in the book one of which is stalling--increasing the angle of attack until there is no more lift on the wing, and the plane is supposed to drop, not descend. I fly the Cessna 172 Skylark that comes with FSX--and it won't stall. I fly straight and level at 3000' at 2300 rpm's and 0 deg attitude, then reduce rpm's gradually trying to maintain altitude:

 

2300 rpms -- 98 knots

2000 rpm's --80 knots

1700 rpm's -- 60 knots

1500 rpm's -- Still 60 knots but descending 250 ft/min

1400 rpm's -- 60 knots, 300 ft/min

1200 rpm's -- 60 knots, 500 ft/min

Cut to Idle Power still keeping full back on yoke -- Descending 700+ ft / min BUT DESCENDING NOT DROPPING. Every once in awhile the nose will move down a bit like it wants to stall, but the additional small amount of speed pulls the nose back up and no stall. Now I'm thinking when I round out landing I'm not stalling but descending onto the runway. What do you guys think?

 

The default aircraft are not representative of the actual aircraft they purport to replicate. For that you need aftermarket aircraft designed by such developers as A2A, Real Air or Vertx, among others.

 

FSX aircraft can be fairly representative away from the corners of the flight envelope, which the stall area isn't.

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I think the exercise is to reduce rpm while maintaining altitude. (trying to maintain altitude. Pulling on the stick.)

That will get you into a stall.

 

That's what he was doing, with no success because of less than stellar accuracy in the sim's default aircraft. Did you read the other posts above?

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Thank you once again Larry and Mallcott. Excellent responses to my question and makes it all understandable. I actually have A2A but couldn't cold start it using their instructions. Also more difficult to fly. I understand that is because it is more realistic but thought the default would be easier to learn on then go to A2A. I think I'm about ready now though. It is interesting that trimming is a nuisance for simmers. Thanks once again gentlemen.
i7-7700k @ 4.2 Ghz, 16 GB DDR4/3000,2280 SSD M.2,Genome II Case,Nvidia GTX 1080 rear exhaust, Samsung 40" HDTV & Two 24" HP side monitors. Redbird Alloy yoke, pedals, and throttle. A single Saitek Instrument Panel and Cessna trim wheel. Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers. Windows 10 64 bit. 58 measured Mbps.
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