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Great article by former Aces member about new MSFS


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Thank for link Vic

 

A Whole New World

 

Like many of its predecessors, the new simulator models the entire planet, including something like 40,000 airports worldwide. I used to brag in presentations about FSX that we started with 2 terabytes of scenery data, and then compressed that to fit onto a couple of DVDs in a box. The world in the new version consists of 2 petabytes of data — yes, that’s one thousand times bigger. The scenery is built on Bing satellite and aerial imagery, augmented with cool buzzwordy stuff like photogrammetric 3D modeling and multiple other data sources, all of which is streamed via Microsoft’s Azure cloud service. Yes, the word streaming means you’ll need an internet connection, but you can download and pre-cache scenery areas for offline use, or even fly in a fully offline mode.

 

Makes me wonder if a 1TB drive would be enough to cache a trip from McCarran to LAX

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Nice review and I am looking forward to the sim. But I do have a concern about ATC and AI. Hal stated that he did not see either of those in the sim. And Microsoft did not elaborate on either one. I know the sim is still under development. But I hope MS does both of those items right this time. I am also wanting to see how flying an airliner would make the scenery look. If the scenery would get blurry or stutter at the speeds of an airliner?
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But I hope MS does both of those items right this time. I am also wanting to see how flying an airliner would make the scenery look. If the scenery would get blurry or stutter at the speeds of an airliner?

 

A good question, bam1220: The two things we know about streaming content and flight sim photoscenery so far are this:

Streaming=buffering

Photoscenery=blurries

That's the worst of both worlds for a PC flight sim. It might make no difference on an XBox, and let's not forget that although this flight sim is being developed on PC's (MS Laboratories' PC's mind you... not yours or mine!) this release is part of Microsoft's latest XBox launch next year, and is aimed squarely at that target audience. Microsoft would like the approval of the "traditional" flight sim community of course, developers and simmers alike, but we're not convinced by videos/screenshots until we've actually tried to run the thing on our own PC, are we? :D

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

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A good question, bam1220: The two things we know about streaming content and flight sim photoscenery so far are this:

Streaming=buffering

Photoscenery=blurries

That's the worst of both worlds for a PC flight sim. It might make no difference on an XBox, and let's not forget that although this flight sim is being developed on PC's (MS Laboratories' PC's mind you... not yours or mine!) this release is part of Microsoft's latest XBox launch next year, and is aimed squarely at that target audience. Microsoft would like the approval of the "traditional" flight sim community of course, developers and simmers alike, but we're not convinced by videos/screenshots until we've actually tried to run the thing on our own PC, are we? :D

 

Hmm, have you read any of the articles talking about the new sim?

 

What we do know is that Microsoft has around 200 developers working on this as well as some of the best cloud server resources in the world to throw at it. There will also be 3 modes for scenery to adjust for differing levels of interest speeds and access. One is streaming directly from the cloud, though it will cache data for areas you regularly fly in. The second is a pre-cached mode where you can download the areas you are interested in ahead of time and save them locally. And the final one is a sure offline mode with lower quality scenery for those with really poor or no connection at all. The recent event where they brought in people for some hands on time was apparently running a 25 Mbps connection, and looks to have worked quite well.

 

If it is aimed squarely at the Xbox crowd, which includes many people in the flight sim community too, why would they have spent so much effort on enhancing the flight, weather and atmosphere modelling? Not to mention the other areas they have been and will be working on. So yes, the proof will be in the pudding, as they say, however this is shaping up to be a proper successor to FSX.

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. . . however this is shaping up to be a proper successor to FSX.

 

Thanks for that, Loki, you're absolutely right. It disturbs me to see so many people eager to bash a program that is still a year or so away from hitting the shelves. I've been enjoying Flight Simulator since subLOGIC FSII, and currently run FSX:SE. It's beginning to look as though NOT jumping to P3D might have been a smart move.

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Hmm, have you read any of the articles talking about the new sim?

 

Yes indeed, and the interviews, watched the videos and so on. If there will be 3 modes for PC users to access this sim, surely Microsoft are trying to tell us that PC is not the ideal platform to get the best experience with it? I don't see why they wouldn't enhance the flight, weather and atmosphere modelling for XBox One X, since they've also announced that Joysticks and Yokes will be compatible with the XBox One X too. Given that the XBox One X will be 40% more powerful than the current Xbox One S, it seems to me that the average simmer is going to have two choices to get the best from the new sim: Spend thousands on PC upgrades, and risk still not getting the desired results, or spend a few hundred on the new XBox One X, plug in your joystick or yoke and be as happy as a clam! :cool:

Here's the link to the UK XBox One X website: https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one-x

Edited by tiger1962

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

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Yes indeed, and the interviews, watched the videos and so on. If there will be 3 modes for PC users to access this sim, surely Microsoft are trying to tell us that PC is not the ideal platform to get the best experience with it?

 

I don't see how having 3 modes means the PC is not the ideal platform at all. What it does mean is that they're trying to bring the enhanced scenery engine and visuals to as many users, both PC and Xbox, as possible. With the amount of data involved, there is no way any current PC could reasonably download and store all of it, and many people still don't have high speed (say >15 Mbps) or reliable internet connections. They've also said the vast majority of the developers are focused on the PC version and that they will be working on the Xbox version later. Having an Xbox version will be a great option, though will likely have limitations compared to the desktop PC.

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I think the PC v. XBox version debate could go on for as long as the FSX v. FS9 debate!

I don't expect there'll be any difference between the two, apart from the performance limitations of the PC you're accessing the sim from.

What the developers have described so far is that Microsoft Flight Simulator will be an XBox "Play Anywhere" Digital title and this is how it's explained on the XBox website:

"Now when you own an Xbox Play Anywhere digital title, it’s yours to play on both Xbox One and Windows 10 PC.

Buy once, play anywhere

Purchase an Xbox Play Anywhere digital game, play it on both Xbox One and Windows 10 PC at no additional cost.

Progress goes with you

Pick up where you left off on another Xbox One or Windows 10 PC, bringing all your saves, game add-ons and achievements with you."

Here's the link to the UK XBox Play Anwhere webpage: https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/games/xbox-play-anywhere

As you'd expect, the XBox website also states: "Games play best on Xbox One".

It's very wise of Microsoft to launch on PC first, the console gaming audience's reaction to open-world sims has always been "There's nothing to do, it's boring, I want my money back" and none of us want a repetition of that!

Edited by tiger1962

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

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the console gaming audience's reaction to open-world sims has always been "There's nothing to do, it's boring, I want my money back" and none of us want a repetition of that!

 

This is what concerns me the most. MSFS is going to be released in a partially finished state. People on release will swarm and buy new PC's, add-ons, whatever else based on the assumption MSFS will eventually fully replace FSX.

And if the Xbox crowd don't take to MSFS? If PC sales aren't what MS expected? MSFS will get dumped, unfinished.

I can't get excited about the new sim because these are modern gaming times. This won't be FS2020, it'll be more like FS2024 by the time it's hopefully finished.

 

2024 is a long way away and all the things that could happen between now and then...

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I think the PC v. XBox version debate could go on for as long as the FSX v. FS9 debate!

I don't expect there'll be any difference between the two, apart from the performance limitations of the PC you're accessing the sim from.

...

As you'd expect, the XBox website also states: "Games play best on Xbox One".

It's very wise of Microsoft to launch on PC first, the console gaming audience's reaction to open-world sims has always been "There's nothing to do, it's boring, I want my money back" and none of us want a repetition of that!

 

Well, they aren't planning on releasing for the Xbox next year.

 

Yes, Microsoft Flight Simulator will come to Xbox consoles at some point, Neumann said, and it will be an Xbox Game Pass title on that platform, just like its Windows 10 version will be. And, yes, the game will be available either as part of XGP or as a standalone purchase.

 

But the game's announced "2020" launch window is for Windows 10, not Xbox consoles, and there's no indication of whether the console version will have specific limitations. Might it require online streaming? Might it require an Xbox One X minimum? Microsoft isn't saying.

 

PCs will be the more powerful platform and be more capable than the Xbox. Always have been, and probably will be for some time. A number of games with both desktop and console versions will take advantage of the desktop's additional power, often with higher resolution textures and more detailed scenery, and sometimes other differences too.

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/the-new-ms-flight-simulator-taught-me-how-to-fly-an-actual-plane/

 

The play best on Xbox thing is aimed at the Xbox's primary competition, the Playstation. With the latest updates to Windows 10 and the Xbox, Microsoft is slowly bringing the console and desktop together under one roof and one platform. Xboxes will be those who don't want to mess around with hardware etc. that want to turn it on and play, and the PC will be for the ones who want more flexibility and/or the most powerful computer money can buy to have the best experience possible. So sure Microsoft wants to get some of the Xbox market flying in the sim, but so far they have given every indication that the PC version is first and foremost in their work at the moment.

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Xboxes will be those who don't want to mess around with hardware etc. that want to turn it on and play, and the PC will be for the ones who want more flexibility and/or the most powerful computer money can buy to have the best experience possible. So sure Microsoft wants to get some of the Xbox market flying in the sim, but so far they have given every indication that the PC version is first and foremost in their work at the moment.

 

Very true, especially "the most powerful computer money can buy"! In the Ars Technica article you linked to, about the Microsoft Flight Simulator world premiere reveal event, is this comment:

"The entire Microsoft event revolved around MSFS running on Windows 10 PCs—massive ones, at that, with high-end graphics cards. These systems occasionally struggled to keep up with a 60fps refresh, sometimes hitching for three- or six-second pauses for inexplicable, "pre-alpha" reasons. That was arguably due to a mix of unoptimized code, network issues, and sheer power."

Now 60fps is twice as much as I'd expect FSX or even FS2004 to run at on my current PC, and I seriously doubt my PC would even meet the minimum specifications for this sim when those are eventually released. I expect the cost of a suitable GPU upgrade alone to cost twice as much as an XBox One X (12gb GPU included) or it's successor. I'm definitely going to be in the XBox market for this sim, and I'll be quite happy to wait and see what develops.

Edited by tiger1962

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

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I'm a bit confused with this Xbox and PC thing, whenever I've seen a game being played on Xbox the graphics always seem very good, I am not sure if that is because the game is on a disk or online but a lot of PC's don't seem to match that.

 

I have said in another thread, I remember when FS2004 was released a lot of simmers had to buy a new PC to run it or upgrade with peripherals etc, so I can see this happening again.

I remember reading one post by a guy who bragged he got the sim at a bargain price but on the next sentence he said how much his new PC cost lol.

 

Col

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I'm a bit confused with this Xbox and PC thing, whenever I've seen a game being played on Xbox the graphics always seem very good, I am not sure if that is because the game is on a disk or online but a lot of PC's don't seem to match that.

 

An Xbox is essentially a very specialized PC that developers can optimize their games for. However, even a mid-range PC these days is more powerful than the current top end Xbox, and high end PCs are even more powerful. Some games do allow for more detail and high resolution textures on the PC due do the better hardware. Although, there are some games where the PC port is somewhat of an afterthought too.

 

Depending on what, if any, compromises are needed to get the new sim running on the next generation Xbox, it could well be a great option for those on a more limited budget.

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An Xbox is essentially a very specialized PC that developers can optimize their games for. However, even a mid-range PC these days is more powerful than the current top end Xbox, and high end PCs are even more powerful. Some games do allow for more detail and high resolution textures on the PC due do the better hardware. Although, there are some games where the PC port is somewhat of an afterthought too.

 

Depending on what, if any, compromises are needed to get the new sim running on the next generation Xbox, it could well be a great option for those on a more limited budget.

 

Loki - seriously mate, PLEASE watch the video in this link: https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/project-scarlett

THIS is what XBox Game Studios Microsoft Flight Simulator will be released on:

"Project Scarlett arriving Holiday 2020.

Project Scarlett will set a new bar for console power, speed and performance, arriving Holiday 2020 alongside Halo Infinite. With a custom-designed AMD processor, high bandwidth GDDR6 memory and a next generation solid state drive (SSD), Project Scarlett will give developers the power they need to bring their creative visions to life. Thousands of games across four console generations will look and play best on Project Scarlett."

The home desktop PC market is in rapid decline in favor of tablets and smartphones, and PC component costs are increasing just as rapidly as a result. The cost of the XBox Project Scarlett, with the ideal spec CPU, GPU, RAM and SSD built-in, will be a fraction of the cost of an equivalent desktop PC which would be capable of running Microsoft Flight Simulator at the full rate. My current PC will be the last I own, and I'm about as sentimental about it as I was about my DVD player and the VCR player before that.

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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They have bars where you can go get a beer. They have laundrymats where you can go do your laundry. They have librarys where you can go read a book. They have rollerinks where you can skate. They have massage parlors where you can get 'rubbed'. They have bowling alleys, and can join a league, along with the shirt with team logo, bowl, eat, have a beer and socialize. So, why can't there be some 'MS Pads' (Hangars?) where you can go in, rent a booth, and play Flight Simulator on provided top spec PC's, play 'online', eat, and get a beer, and socialize? I don't think MS is really doing any 'real' THINKING!

Chuck B

Napamule

PS: You are grounded-go to your room-but DON'T play with your XBox OR with FS2020-you hear me!? Do your homework. Write a novel. Discover a cure for cancer. Take a bath. (hehe)

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Hey Chuck! Us teenage dirtbags have feelings too ya know!

I think MS is really thinking that the desktop PC for home users is reaching the end of the road. In my experience, Windows 10 isn't happy on a desktop PC, and even less happy about running old software like FS2004 and FSX. Times change and technology moves on, such is life.

Edited by tiger1962

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

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As a crinkly simmer (I am 63 yrs old) i actually quite like the idea of buying a much cheaper xbox to run the new sim on but only if it can do the same as the pc version.

 

The problem i have is my home cockpit uses 10 usb ports for all of the controllers. Would this even be possible on an xbox? I suspect there are a fairly high proportion of simmers using more than a joystick to control the sim. If there is a need to use the standard xbox controller then for me that throws realism straight out of the window.

 

Also I wonder how many of the addon developers will be venturing into the xbox market. If this sim is to last the next decade we will all be looking to enhance it over the coming years

 

Cheers

Stinger

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

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whenever I've seen a game being played on Xbox the graphics always seem very good

 

You should see me play GTA V on my computer. :D

 

You might not be watching the right videos on YouTube or what ever. You can even watch YouTube game streaming and see what games people are playing on their PC's.

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As a crinkly simmer (I am 63 yrs old) i actually quite like the idea of buying a much cheaper xbox to run the new sim on but only if it can do the same as the pc version.

 

The problem i have is my home cockpit uses 10 usb ports for all of the controllers. Would this even be possible on an xbox? I suspect there are a fairly high proportion of simmers using more than a joystick to control the sim. If there is a need to use the standard xbox controller then for me that throws realism straight out of the window.

 

Also I wonder how many of the addon developers will be venturing into the xbox market. If this sim is to last the next decade we will all be looking to enhance it over the coming years

 

Stinger, the XBox and PC versions are one and the same, the sim will be run in the cloud and be accessible from either XBox console or Windows 10 PC.

USB Hubs can be plugged in to XBox, USB 3.0 is recommended for speed. Joysticks are already compatible and other flightsim controllers will be compatible by the release date.

Addon development for the new sim will be easier than ever, hopefully this will attract new developers as well as the existing developers.

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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Stinger, the XBox and PC versions are one and the same, the sim will be run in the cloud and be accessible from either XBox console or Windows 10 PC.

 

No, they are not the same. The only streaming involved will be the scenery and weather data, with the sim itself running directly on the local PC or Xbox. And while it is easier these days to port games between the two platforms, there are still enough differences that they won't be using exactly the same code. And there will likely be compromises on the Xbox side, which Microsoft has hinted at multiple times.

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Loki - seriously mate, PLEASE watch the video in this link: https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/project-scarlett

THIS is what XBox Game Studios Microsoft Flight Simulator will be released on:

"Project Scarlett arriving Holiday 2020.

Project Scarlett will set a new bar for console power, speed and performance, arriving Holiday 2020 alongside Halo Infinite. With a custom-designed AMD processor, high bandwidth GDDR6 memory and a next generation solid state drive (SSD), Project Scarlett will give developers the power they need to bring their creative visions to life. Thousands of games across four console generations will look and play best on Project Scarlett."

The home desktop PC market is in rapid decline in favor of tablets and smartphones, and PC component costs are increasing just as rapidly as a result. The cost of the XBox Project Scarlett, with the ideal spec CPU, GPU, RAM and SSD built-in, will be a fraction of the cost of an equivalent desktop PC which would be capable of running Microsoft Flight Simulator at the full rate. My current PC will be the last I own, and I'm about as sentimental about it as I was about my DVD player and the VCR player before that.

 

I have seen that video, and others, and it still doesn't change anything I have said. The new Xbox will be a great upgrade over the current generation, but it will still be behind the best PCs one can put together. For many simmers it will probably be a very cost effective way to run the new sim.

 

As for PC gaming dying, people have been trying to claim this for 20 years and have been wrong each time. What is changing is there are now more options for playing video games, from PCs, to consoles, to mobile phones and tablets. There are people playing consoles and mobile phones that never played PC games, and many others that play on 2 or more platforms.

 

When it comes to the upcoming sim, I think one big difference will be the availability of add-ons. Unless MS change something, all add-ons for Xbox users will need to go through their online store. Meanwhile, on the PC side, developers will be allowed to sell through their own sites, in addition to the built in marketplace. We could well find that some add-ons never make it to the Xbox because of this. And we haven't really heard anything about freeware add-ons either in regards to whether they can be made available through the marketplace.

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Gaming cafes and lunges have been around for many years now. Here's a couple examples (haven't been to them myself):

 

https://www.gam1ngcafe.com

 

http://ramcross.ca

 

I'm sure if there was enough demand, they would happily support the new sim too.

 

And for your next birthday, you can book movie theatres to play games with your friends. Maybe with the new sim and next gen Xbox, you could book one locally and take your family for a flight?

 

https://www.cineplex.com/Theatres/Birthdays/XBOXParties

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