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Rewiring Saitek ps/2 throttle with a 3-axis joystick controller board


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In a post a while back, I realized that the ps/2 version of the Saitek throttle quadrant doesn't actually have a physical controller board. I'm considering a Bodnar board, but what if I took the board of a cheap 3-axis USB joystick and wire the throttle's pots to that? Would it work?

 

P.S. - By now you've probably noticed I'm the El Cheapo of flight sim ;)

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In a post a while back, I realized that the ps/2 version of the Saitek throttle quadrant doesn't actually have a physical controller board. I'm considering a Bodnar board, but what if I took the board of a cheap 3-axis USB joystick and wire the throttle's pots to that? Would it work?

 

P.S. - By now you've probably noticed I'm the El Cheapo of flight sim ;)

 

Yes. Just make sure you connect all wires (+5v, signal and Ground)correctly.

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You might find lots of info on YouTube. I imagine someone out there is doing (or has done) what you are doing - even if it was in 2009 (hehe).

 

Here is something you may be interested in: Joystick Controller Page: https://www.slagcoin.com/joystick.html . Every bit of info helps.

 

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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If you have a digital VOM. You have the right tool for now.

Just to play safe, would you tell me what joystick you are planning to do the mod?

If possible upload photos of the pots inside the usb joystick (3 axes) with OEM wiring on it or tell me the color of the wires and their position in term of 1, middle and 3 (view from top down with the shaft facing you), so I could take a look of it before offering further suggestion. Well as usual any mod in electronic circuit does have risk unless you are sure what are you dealing with in the first place.

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Awesome, thanks! Are there any obvious and/or definite ways to tell the connections apart? I heard you can fry something if its connected wrong. I have a multimeter if it helps.

 

The description of the wiring color and location inside the USB joystick for analysis:

(1) Look from top view.

(2) The shaft facing you

(3) The tabs pointing down

(4) mark the number and color of each wires.

Normally Red => +5v Yellow => Signal and Green or Black => Ground.

At least you can ID the +5v using the VOM then the middle is signal and the far end tab is ground.

This also apply to Saitek Throtte pots.

Hope this helps.

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I'm just trying to read along. If I read you correctly you want to connect the pot from your saitek throttle to

the board of your sidewinder. In the same way as the sidewinder throttle is connected to that board at the moment.

Do I understand that correctly?

 

 

Also two questions about the non-throttle axis of the sidewinder. From your picture I see an indication for axis 1 and axis 2 on the sidewinder board.

Do I understand correctly that those 2 axis will not be used for this throttle solution?

 

And the read question about the axis. I do not see axis 3 indicated. Does the sidewinder not have a third axis? (I am not familiar with that stick. Is it not a stick you can twist to control the rudder with.).

 

----

Reason for those three questions is I took my joystick apart once and like to learn. Find this an interestin thread. (Also maybe if I understand your plan better I can add advice at some point.)

 

thanks in advance.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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il88pp:

 

Hey, great to have some interest:

"I'm just trying to read along. If I read you correctly you want to connect the pot from your saitek throttle to

the board of your sidewinder. In the same way as the sidewinder throttle is connected to that board at the moment.

Do I understand that correctly?"

 

pretty much, but read on:

 

"Also two questions about the non-throttle axis of the sidewinder. From your picture I see an indication for axis 1 and axis 2 on the sidewinder board.

Do I understand correctly that those 2 axis will not be used for this throttle solution?"

 

No, I didn't really think about how the labels would have translated. What I meant was, the "throttle" is the physical throttle and potentiometer on the sidewinder, and axis 1 & 2 are the x and y axis on the sidewinder. I'll need three of the axis from the board for the three-lever throttle. On the board, I'll disconnect all the sidewinder's pots from it, and use 3 out of the four axis (on the board) to connect to the throttle's three axis (so no, I WILL be using the throttle axis, as well as axis 1 &2). If I have time, I'll try to wire the buttons.

 

"And the second question about the axis. I do not see axis 3 indicated. Does the sidewinder not have a third axis? (I am not familiar with that stick. Is it not a stick you can twist to control the rudder with.)."

 

Yeah, It has a twist axis, just forgot to label it. It's probably the three wires (stuck together) to the right of where axis 2 connects to the board.

 

I hope this makes sense, and feel free to ask any more questions!

Edited by TheAwesomeCobra
clarifying a few sentences
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OK. Thanks! The photo is really helpful. Provided the Microsoft Sidewinder usb board is in good condition.

The 3 axes that you mentioned are workable and can be converted to Saitek Throttle axes with no problem. In fact the 4th one you can turn that to an extra Speed brake if you could by adding additional lever (homemade stick) with the OEM pot intact. Since you have a ground wire ID in the photo, that means you may use it to ID the ground wire on each OEM pot with VOM and then ID the 5v and signal wires will be much easier. Give it a try! Please let me know if I am incorrect.

Is it possible to measure the power line to the OEM pot is really 5V before connect to the throttle pots. You know the calibration will be done as Microsoft sidewinder in your computer system.

Edited by ntydk
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It makes perfect sense.:)

I hadn't realised the Saitek throttle had three levers.

Thanks.

 

My first thought was that saitek lever (1) to sidewinder board throttle connection should work. The board should send a value in a range from zero to 100.

 

But that saitek levers 2 and 3 might not work in fsx all that well when connected to the two sidewinder joystick axis. The two joystick axis on the sidewinder board may be expecting (and sending) a signal such as

100% left---center---100% right.

 

Maybe with registered Fsuipc you can set up a working profile. Change the output the pc recieves from the board to a signal 0---100 using fsuipc.

 

But that's just a thought from a layman. Not sure at all.

 

Judging by the reply that came from ntydk it's not a problem at all.

I'll think about it some more later.

 

Thank you for the info. Good luck on it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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It makes perfect sense.:)

I hadn't realised the Saitek throttle had three levers.

Thanks.

 

My first thought was that saitek lever (1) to sidewinder board throttle connection should work. The board should send a value in a range from zero to 100.

 

But that saitek levers 2 and 3 might not work in fsx all that well when connected to the two sidewinder joystick axis. The two joystick axis on the sidewinder board may be expecting (and sending) a signal such as

100% left---center---100% right.

 

Maybe with registered Fsuipc you can set up a working profile. Change the output the pc recieves from the board to a signal 0---100 using fsuipc.

 

But that's just a thought from a layman. Not sure at all.

 

Judging by the reply that came from ntydk it's not a problem at all.

I'll think about it some more later.

 

Thank you for the info. Good luck on it.

 

Interesting, never thought about the '200%' turn before. I'll see how it goes when its all wired up.

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OK. Thanks! The photo is really helpful. Provided the Microsoft Sidewinder usb board is in good condition.

The 3 axes that you mentioned are workable and can be converted to Saitek Throttle axes with no problem. In fact the 4th one you can turn that to an extra Speed brake if you could by adding additional lever (homemade stick) with the OEM pot intact. Since you have a ground wire ID in the photo, that means you may use it to ID the ground wire on each OEM pot with VOM and then ID the 5v and signal wires will be much easier. Give it a try! Please let me know if I am incorrect.

Is it possible to measure the power line to the OEM pot is really 5V before connect to the throttle pots. You know the calibration will be done as Microsoft sidewinder in your computer system.

 

How do you recommend attaching the 4th pot? Maybe 3d printing? Also I'm not sure what you mean by "Ground ID." Also, where would I put the ground plate? Bend it into a square and hot glue it to the bottom? lol.

 

P.S. Napamule and ntydk - thanks for the links!

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Again, layman here.

What he means by "Ground wire ID".

I think he means that in image 2 is a "Ground" indicated. (Indicated by you in white text.)

Also you indicate "Axis 1". Which shows a blue, a green, and a yelow wire.

I think he means that one of those three wires must be ground as well.

and that if you connectyour Ohm meter between the "Ground" (black) and the

"ground of axis 1 wire"

you should get zero resistance.

 

(that is assuming that those two grounds are connected in some way.

If for example yellow is ground, it must be somhow connected to black via the circuit board, and the resistance between a point on "Ground" and a point on "example yellow" must therefore be zero.

 

(Just like you would measure zero resistance between two points on any loose single piece of wire.)

 

With yellow (example!!) identfied as Ground it would be easier to find out what is 5V and what is signal wire.

 

Lots of "I think" statements in this. For good reason. I know very little about electrics and Current/Voltage/Amp stuff.

Edited by il88pp
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Then again, maybe not exactly zero Ohm resistance. slightly above zero. A wire would still have some resistance of course.

 

Maybe the trick is to do it the other way around. If wires are not connected the resisance between a point on wire 1 and a point on wire 2 would be "infinite". On the multimeter I have that is indicated by a 1 appearing on the left side of the display. As

1____

If there is a connection, with some rsistance, that resistance value appears on the right hand side. As:

___04

 

Here we go with the "I think" part a gain:

If yellow is ground, I think there would not be a connection between blue and your big black "Ground ID".

So with the Multimeter set to "Ohm" and touching the "Black Ground ID" and "Blue" at the same time I

would expect a resistance of:

1____

Same when setting Multimeter to "Ohm" and touching green and ground. Again:

1____

 

But when touching "Black Ground" and "Yellow" (which is the pots ground in this example) you would get something like:

00009

showing a little resistance.

 

That would pretty much prove that Yellow is indeed Ground.

 

 

 

Again, I'm not an expert with this stuff by any means. And keep in mind that calling

Yellow Ground here is just as example. It could just as easily be one of the other colours. So measure all three wires.

Edited by il88pp
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Hi!

Pots don't necessarily have a ground wire attached. The three wires on a pot are HI (resistance), LOW (or no resistance), and WIPER (the part that moves). The WIPER connection is where the signal you want is picked off. USUALLY, the WIPER is the center terminal, but not invariably. It can be verified by placing an ohmmeter between one end terminal and the center, then reading the ohm value on the meter while turning the pot. If the resistance changes, that's the wiper. If it doesn't, you've got both ends of the fixed resistor, and the remaining terminal must thus be the WIPER. The other two set up the conditions that signal will have.

A pot is a resistor, with a wiper that moves from one end of it to the other. At one end, it reads maximum resistance, and at the other, minimum resistance. Thus, at one end of it's travel, the wiper is nearly at the minimum resistance end, at the other, the max. This gives, on the wiper terminal. Max voltage at one end (the minimum resistance end), then decreasing voltage as it moves towords the other end, less and less as it moves along the fixed resistor part, until it reads the minimum voltage at the max resistance end.

All that clear as mud? :rolleyes:

 

For example, the HI resistance wire will have +5VDc on it, the LOW might have something like +2VDc on it (created by the board from the USB's +5 VCC supply. Thus, the pot's wiper can pick off, depending on where it is positioned at any given instant, a voltage between +2 and +5. A 3 volt signal is available: +5 minus +2.

This why the 3 wires may or my not include a black wire. It may, or may not, be directly attached to ground.

 

In VDC coding, NORMALLY, red is hot, whatever the supply voltage might be, in the case of USB +5VDC, and black is ground.

In AC code, usually, black is hot, for example 120 VAC, 60 Hz, white is return, and green is ground. It's a good idea not to confuse the two systems, and connecting black to ground in an AC circuit, like you house's outlets, for example, can be very detrimental to the system...:p

 

The different colored wires going to a pot will indicate the various voltages supplied to it by the board, and the wiper's signal back to the board. Always verify, without a schematic, do not assume. You can damage the board, or the pot.

 

SO, what I'm saying in my long winded way, is do NOT presume that one of the wires on a pot is necessarily ground. It might go the board for a voltage, not ground.

 

Beware, too, not to bridge terminals when soldering a wire to the pot. Always use a low power (

 

Do not fall into the "the bigger the glob the better the job" trap. Use the least amount of solder that will do the job. After you solder the connection, wipe the iron again, and apply a little solder to "tin" it again. Yes, the next join you make, you will wipe it off but it's important to have a clean iron tip. Wiping on a damp sponge and immediately tinning it will ensure this. Do this as soon as it heats up, and every time you pull it out of it's holder from then on. Flux will ensure the solder will flow cleanly into the join. Not ONTO the join, INTO it.

If you do it right, you shouldn't need to apply the solder from it's spool to the connection. It will flow off the iron into the connection, giving a nice, clean, bright, shiney, low volume of solder, physically strong, join.

 

Good quality solder irons of different power ratings, good holders for them, flux, desoldering mesh, solder, heat-shrink, and all the rest is readily available through a McMaster-Carr catalog, available on line or in print. Beware, the print version is very thick and heavy.

 

Finally, before closing up, always use canned air to blow out pots. They get a speck of dust inside, and you have a "dead" spot, or noise in the signal. Bad, bad, bad. This is why many joysticks have gone to Hall Effect sensors instead of pots. They either work, or not. They don't get dead spots and noise like pots do.

 

Good luck!

Pat☺

Edited by PhantomTweak

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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Again, I'm not an expert with this stuff by any means. And keep in mind that calling

Yellow Ground here is just as example. It could just as easily be one of the other colours. So measure all three wires.

 

I was an E-Tech from the start of my career. The Navy was kind enough to send me to enough schools that I hold the Naval equivalent of a BS in Electronic Engineering. I worked on radar systems for the Phantom II, in addition to a few other jobs the Corps thought I was good for. :cool:

Hence, my screen name. Adjusting electronic circuits is called "tweaking" them. I tweaked on Phantoms, see?

After I got out, I went to work on a different radar system, but Radar is Radar. I worked electronics a long time.

I was also micro- and mini-component replacement, including multi-layer board repair, which is a royal pain. That's why I got so bloody verbose. Sorry if I was too long-winded...:rolleyes:

 

Anywho, I just thought the info was important. I just hope it helps a little :D

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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Me? I would just use 2 sidewinders. Make the one on right for flight controls and the one on the left strictly for throttle(s). You can then map the 4 buttons for engine 1, 2, 3 and 4. You can use forward push of stick to give throttle (to the 'selected' engine(s) picked by use of buttons 1-4). On stick are other 'thumb' buttons you can map to F1 (cut) and F4 (full). Setting up controls thru FSX, and/or FSUIPC, would be much easier to do than to re-wire the whole thing - which might not even work. My 2 cents.

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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From what I understand, the ground plane is necessary, correct me if i'm wrong. I think I'll try to find another stick without the base plate/ground, since I don't want to deal with it, and I could find another, more compact one, for really cheap. This would be my first controller mod, and I don't want things to get too complex. If you have any easy suggestions for the base plate, let me know. I just want to keep it as tidy as possible, not too many loose wires/components. Also, PhantomTweak, ntydk, and whoever I missed, thanks, the instructions on wiring are clear and helpful!
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Can you say 'DOOMED' (hehe).
i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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