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Can't see the ground during takeoff


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This is such a basic newbie question, I know, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but sitting in a Cessna 172 (in my sim) I can't see the ground during takeoff due to the pitch of the aircraft. Is this how it is IRL? I just want to make sure I don't need a couple of phone books to sit on. :)
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I can't see the ground during takeoff due to the pitch of the aircraft. Is this how it is IRL?

Nope. The "pitch" of the aircraft is level during takeoff untill you rotate, so that shouldn't be much of an issue. Are you using the "2D" cockpit? That could be the source of your problem. Using the "virtual" cockpit (VC) you should be able to adjust your view in the sim to see the ground ahead. If that doesn't work, you can edit the aircraft.cfg file to change the "eyepoint."

 

In a real world C-172, it's a bit more like sitting in a car, as far as visibility, though the panel may seem a little high. The pilot seat is adjustable fore and aft, as well as vertically, so that only the very shortest people (I've known a few) need cushions (they may need them in a car, too). So if you're 4' 10" you may need a cushion or two, but not otherwise.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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I'm sorry, Larry. I didn't word my post correctly. This is after I rotate during the initial climb.
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I'm sorry, Larry. I didn't word my post correctly. This is after I rotate during the initial climb.

 

I think you may want to see the nice blue sky rather than the mean ole ground coming at you!;) I'll let Larry carry on from here.

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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I'm sorry, Larry. I didn't word my post correctly. This is after I rotate during the initial climb.

 

When you rotate the nose will come up and, at least partially, block your forward view of the runway, but it shouldn't be so high as to totally block the horizon -- if it is then you need to lower your nose. But you can see very well out the sides of the aircraft and off at 30º to 40º to either side over the nose, which is adequate for proper aircraft control. Don't EVER depend solely on staring straight ahead for aircraft control (how do you think we fly a Cub from the back seat or a Stearman from either seat?) -- you can use peripheral vision and the things you CAN see for proper control and navigation.

 

So as long as you can see the runway ahead (in a tri-gear) and the horizon once established in a climb attitude, you are properly situated vertically in your seat and will do fine. Part of your flight training is to learn the various reference points you need for different parts of the flight, for different situations and (aircraft) attitudes.

 

BTW, in a Cub, Stearman, et al, you'll learn to do S-turns while taxiing and clear the runway ahead (visually) before getting lined up on the runway, then will use peripheral vision, looking a little to the side, angles of part of the aircraft with runway edge, etc. etc. for takeoff until the tail is up -- similar for landing once the tail is down.

 

So unless you're unusually short you probably won't need cushions -- the flight school may have some loaners anyway.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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I think you may want to see the nice blue sky rather than the mean ole ground coming at you!;) I'll let Larry carry on from here.

 

This is very true! :D

 

When you rotate the nose will come up and, at least partially, block your forward view of the runway, but it shouldn't be so high as to totally block the horizon -- if it is then you need to lower your nose. But you can see very well out the sides of the aircraft and off at 30º to 40º to either side over the nose, which is adequate for proper aircraft control. Don't EVER depend solely on staring straight ahead for aircraft control (how do you think we fly a Cub from the back seat or a Stearman from either seat?) -- you can use peripheral vision and the things you CAN see for proper control and navigation.

 

So as long as you can see the runway ahead (in a tri-gear) and the horizon once established in a climb attitude, you are properly situated vertically in your seat and will do fine. Part of your flight training is to learn the various reference points you need for different parts of the flight, for different situations and (aircraft) attitudes.

 

BTW, in a Cub, Stearman, et al, you'll learn to do S-turns while taxiing and clear the runway ahead (visually) before getting lined up on the runway, then will use peripheral vision, looking a little to the side, angles of part of the aircraft with runway edge, etc. etc. for takeoff until the tail is up -- similar for landing once the tail is down.

 

So unless you're unusually short you probably won't need cushions -- the flight school may have some loaners anyway.

 

What a great explanation! Thank you. I'm not going to worry about then. I'm seeing what I should be seeing.

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In 2D view, this has always been a problem for many FS pilots no matter FS9, FSX, P3D. My solution is to assign two keyboard keys in the Menu - Options/Controls/Buttons-Keys feature to the actions "View (always pan up)" and "View (always pan down)". Always pan up gives the appearance of gradually LOWERING the seat, panning down gives the appearance of gradually RAISING the seat (Reverse Polish logic I guess).

 

Personally I use "Q" and "A" to do this and it works like a charm. Easy to remember, and to find right after takeoff, as well as setting up initial view to your likng on the ground.

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Good idea. I'm going to try that. Thanks!
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Good idea. I'm going to try that. Thanks!

 

So, what speed are you climbing at?

Might be advisable to go faster as this has the effect of lowering the nose, improving the visibility. Normal climb speed for the 172 is 85 knots. Try 110-120 kts and see the effect on climb rate...

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Yeah, usually around 80-85 kts, then between 500 and 700 feet per min.
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So, what speed are you climbing at?

... Try 110-120 kts and see the effect on climb rate...

 

I expect that works at sea level, with just a somewhat reduced climb rate, but you may not GET 120 KIAS in cruise at 5000 and up (maybe not 120 MPH, depending on model), let alone climb, and on a hot day your climb rate with two people aboard might only be 100-200 fpm at 85 kts, perhaps requiring you to go to Vy, which puts you back in the low 70s for IAS.

 

So the idea of a cruise climb is a good one, but the details will vary depending on density altitude, which in Denver on a hot day can be over 9,000 feet.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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This is such a basic newbie question, I know, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but sitting in a Cessna 172 (in my sim) I can't see the ground during takeoff due to the pitch of the aircraft. Is this how it is IRL? I just want to make sure I don't need a couple of phone books to sit on.

Can be. The 172 panel is quite high and old fashioned in that it isn't geared for forward vis. Sounds odd? There was a guy who owned a Tiger Moth at the field where I learned to fly. I saw it in the hangar in prewar RAF colours, looking very nice. It turned out my flying instructor was the same one who gave the Tiger owner his type familiarisation. In level flight, in the front cockpit, the owner kept kept lowering the nose, complaining he couldn't see forward. "You're not supposed to" Came a rather scornful response from the instructor (he told me off at least once) "Look either side of the windscreen!"

 

At another extreme, look at some of those 20's or 30's air racers. No forward vis at all! Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic with only a periscope for forward vision.

 

I was advised as a student pilot to lower the nose from time to time on long climbs to make observations. More modern aeroplanes sometimes have smaller diameter instruments or a condensed 'glass' panel, which allows better forward visibility in the design.

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What a great story, caldrail! Thanks for that.
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