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Relationship Between Alt Hold & Master AP


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With all of the stock FSX aircraft, you can light the Atl Hold button without having to activate the Master AP. This comes in handy when you want to preset an altitude and use a keyboard/joystick shortcut to activate that preset Alt Hold. The reason being, after take-off you cannot use a keyboard/joystick shortcut to activate a preset Alt Hold altitude because it will reset to your current altitude. The only way to use a preset altitude is by clicking on Alt Hold with a mouse.

 

Which leads me to this issue: I have downloaded a C5 Galaxy that doesn’t allow you to activate Alt Hold without activating Master AP. How can I modify the panel and/or model so the relationship between Alt Hold & Master AP behaves like the stock aircraft? In other words being able to have Alt Hold lit & ready to go and then activating Alt Hold by turning on the Master AP.

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I'm still curious about this! Is my picture a representation of what you want? Notice that alt hold is lit and master a/p switch is off.

 

Your 2D panel is different than mine (see below). Which C5 model are you using? That looks like an autopilot panel from another aircraft.

 

C-5 2D.jpg

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Same as yours! I am using the 737-400 A/P unit instead of the one that comes with the C-5. I am able to bring up the A/P panel and then place it and size it the way I want.

 

Back to my question...is it showing what you want to do?

 

These are the changes I made to the panel.cfg:

 

 

// C-5 Galaxy
// Copyright Herbert Pralle & AlphaSim 2005


[Window Titles]
Window00=Main Panel
Window01=Engine Panel
Window02=GPS Panel
Window03=Radio Panel
Window04=Throttle Panel
Window05=Yoke
Window06=Seat Positioner
[color="#FF0000"]window07=Autopilot
[/color]
[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=MAIN_PANEL,200,125,50,10,150,COMPASS_PANEL,GPS_PANEL,1001,MINIPANEL

VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=0.500
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=0.000, 0.000, 0.000

VIEW_FORWARD_RIGHT_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_RIGHT_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_REAR_RIGHT_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_REAR_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_REAR_LEFT_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_LEFT_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_FORWARD_LEFT_ZOOM=0.500

VIEW_UP_ZOOM=0.500



//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window00]
file=Main Panel.BMP 
size_mm=1024,768
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=1
visible=1
ident=MAIN_PANEL

gauge00=ALPHA_C-5!OMI,  208,558,43,80
gauge01=ALPHA_C-5!OMI TEST,  209,648,41,57
gauge02=ALPHA_C-5!BDHI SELECTOR,  253,502,80,150
gauge03=ALPHA_C-5!BDHI,  338,486,82,82
gauge04=ALPHA_C-5!AMI,  424,467,92,210
gauge05=ALPHA_C-5!AVVI,  655,466,92,210
gauge06=ALPHA_C-5!ATT,  523,476,125,135
gauge07=ALPHA_C-5!HSI,  523,616,125,106
gauge08=ALPHA_C-5!RALT,  660,382,82,82
gauge09=ALPHA_C-5!ACLK,  342,570,72,72
gauge10=ALPHA_C-5!GFI,  342,655,74,76
gauge11=ALPHA_C-5!WARNING LIGHTS,  522,426,127,45
gauge12=ALPHA_C-5!CALLSIGN,  424,445,44,18
gauge13=ALPHA_C-5!STALL OVERSPEED,  449,371,98,16
gauge14=ALPHA_C-5!MASTER LIGHTS,  474,  404 ,42,59
gauge15=ALPHA_C-5!GEAR INDICATOR,  426,414,36,13
gauge16=ALPHA_C-5!OVERHEAD,  779,0,244,50
gauge17=ALPHA_C-5!AUX NAV PANEL,  572,292,183,47
gauge18=ALPHA_C-5!AUTOPILOT,  737,273,287,111
gauge19=ALPHA_C-5!ATT2,  800,406,82,82
gauge20=ALPHA_C-5!ELEV TRIM,  888,416,62,62
gauge21=ALPHA_C-5!NOSE GEAR,  955,416,62,62
gauge22=RDR!Radarscreen_V1,  800,498,194,194
gauge23=ALPHA_C-5!ECU 2D,  846,689,178,120
gauge24=,  50,357,169,335
gauge25=ALPHA_C-5!YOKE ICON,  430,688,18,18
gauge26=SIMICONS1024!KNEEBOARD ICON,  451,688,18,18
gauge27=SIMICONS1024!GPS ICON,  472,688,18,18
gauge28=SIMICONS1024!MAP ICON,  493,688,18,18
gauge29=ALPHA_C-5!SEATPOS ICON,  430,710,18,18
gauge30=SIMICONS1024!COMPASS ICON,  451,710,18,18
gauge31=SIMICONS1024!ELECTRICAL PANEL ICON,  660,688,18,18
gauge32=SIMICONS1024!RADIO ICON,  681,688,18,18
gauge33=SIMICONS1024!ECU ICON,  702,688,18,18
gauge34=SIMICONS1024!ENGINE INSTRUMENTS ICON,  723,688,18,18
gauge35=ALPHA_C-5!INST POWER,  253,657,81,48
gauge36=ALPHA_C-5!EFC,  302,427,117,50


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window01]
file=Engine Panel.bmp 
size_mm=250,320
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=6
visible=0
ident=200

gauge00=ALPHA_C-5!ELEV TRIM,  10,15,62,62
gauge01=ALPHA_C-5!RUDDER TRIM,  83,13,54,54
gauge02=ALPHA_C-5!AILERON TRIM,  140,13,54,54
gauge03=ALPHA_C-5!FLAPS,  197,13,54,54
gauge04=ALPHA_C-5!ENGINE LIGHTS,  78,71,170,48
gauge05=ALPHA_C-5!EPR,  8,121,84,183
gauge06=ALPHA_C-5!N1RPM,  94,121,51,183
gauge07=ALPHA_C-5!N2RPM,  147,121,51,183
gauge08=ALPHA_C-5!FUELFLOW,  200,121,51,183


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window02]
file=GPS Panel.bmp 
size_mm=300,250
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=0
visible=0
ident=125

//gauge00=ALPHA_C-5!ELECTRIC,  9,0
gauge00=fs9gps!gps_500, 0, 0,300,250


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03]
file=Radio Panel.bmp 
//size_mm=240,768
size_mm=460,231

window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=2
visible=0
ident=50

gauge00=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO ADF,      44, 10,200,70
gauge01=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO NAV,      44, 80,200,70
gauge02=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO COM,      44,150,200,70
gauge03=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO TRANSP,  244, 10,200,70
gauge04=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO DME,     244, 80,200,70
gauge05=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO AUDIO,   244,150,200,70
//gauge06=ALPHA_C-5!RADIO DUMMY,   175,573

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window04]
file=ECU Panel.bmp 
size_mm=240,768
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=8
visible=0
ident=10

gauge00=ALPHA_C-5!ECU,  0,620


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window05]
file=Yoke window.BMP 
size_mm=800,350
//size_mm=1024,400

window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=7
visible=1
ident=150

gauge00=ALPHA_C-5!YOKE,  0,0,800,350

//------------------------------------------------------------

[Window06]
file=Navpanel.bmp 
size_mm=500
window_size_ratio=1.000  
position=5
visible=0
ident=RADIO_STACK_PANEL

[color="#FF0000"]Got rid of the 737-800 A/P panel[/color]
gauge01=ALPHA_C-5!ELECTRIC,  130,35,300,285

//-----------------------------------------------------------


[color="#FF0000"][Window07]
Background_color=16,16,16 
size_mm=360,80
position=6
visible=0
ident=OVERHEAD_PANEL

gauge00=737-400!Autopilot,5,5,350,70[/color]

//-------------------------------------------

Edited by mrzippy

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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Same as yours! I am using the 737-400 A/P unit instead of the one that comes with the C-5. I am able to bring up the A/P panel and then place it and size it the way I want.

 

Back to my question...is it showing what you want to do?

 

Could you do this test? Assign AP Master to a joystick button. With the C-5 idling on a runway or tarmac, make sure the AP Master is off. Set a preset altitude and turn the Alt Hold button on using the mouse. Now activate the AP Master using the assigned joystick button. The Alt Hold & AP masters buttons should be lit and the preset altitude unchanged.

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Could you do this test? Assign AP Master to a joystick button. With the C-5 idling on a runway or tarmac, make sure the AP Master is off. Set a preset altitude and turn the Alt Hold button on using the mouse. Now activate the AP Master using the assigned joystick button. The Alt Hold & AP masters buttons should be lit and the preset altitude unchanged.

 

That's all that happened! Hitting the joystick assigned button caused the A/P master switch to turn on. There is no indicator light on this A/P panel. No change in the assigned altitude.

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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I found the autopilot.xml file in a file within ALPHA_C-5.CAB located in the panel.1 folder. Here's some code I found. As a test, I changed K:AP_ALT_HOLD_OFF to K:AP_ALT_HOLD_ON. But when I loaded the plane, all of the gauges were missing. I wish someone who actually builds FSX planes from scratch would read this. They would know exactly how to fix this (see my original post in this thread).

 

(A:Autopilot Master,bool) if{ 0 (>L:HOLD SPEED,bool) (>K:AP_AIRSPEED_OFF) (>K:AP_MACH_OFF) (>K:AP_ALT_HOLD_ON) (>K:AP_HEADING_OFF) (>K:AP_NAV1_HOLD_OFF) (>K:AP_WING_LEVELER_OFF) } 0 (>K:AP_MASTER)

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Gregory. Give a link to the galaxy you downloaded. And it's filename.zip and the site it came from.

 

When asking for help you really need to make 100% clear what aircraft you are talking about. That includes what site you got it from. And whether or not you are using it with its original panel. (if not, what panel DO you use, and where did you get it.).

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Thanks MrZippy,

But I really need to hear from gregory what plane he is using, and from where.

And also what panel he uses with it.

 

The plane you list was mentioned in another thread about this, but so were several othere C5 addons.

Besides, this is a new thread. Could be a very different plane again.

 

A few posts back I saw: "hey, your panel looks different".....:(

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Thanks MrZippy,

But I really need to hear from gregory what plane he is using, and from where.

And also what panel he uses with it.

 

The plane you list was mentioned in another thread about this, but so were several othere C5 addons.

Besides, this is a new thread. Could be a very different plane again.

 

A few posts back I saw: "hey, your panel looks different".....:(

 

You are overthinking this, il! My panel looked different because I use the 737-400 A/P panel instead of the one that comes with the aircraft download. I pop it up and placed it where the other controls were. The OP is using the original panel and is now going off half cocked about trying to edit the C-5 A/P .xml. He is overly fixated on what he wants to do.

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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Gregory. Give a link to the galaxy you downloaded. And it's filename.zip and the site it came from.

 

When asking for help you really need to make 100% clear what aircraft you are talking about. That includes what site you got it from. And whether or not you are using it with its original panel. (if not, what panel DO you use, and where did you get it.).

 

Here's the link where I got the file called fsx_lockheedc5_galaxy_updated.zip. I'm using the panel that came with that zip file.

 

https://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/23870/fsx-lockheed-c5-galaxy-with-updated-panels/

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You are overthinking this, il! My panel looked different because I use the 737-400 A/P panel instead of the one that comes with the aircraft download. I pop it up and placed it where the other controls were. The OP is using the original panel and is now going off half cocked about trying to edit the C-5 A/P .xml. He is overly fixated on what he wants to do.

 

Charlie - I basically did what you did, went with the 737-400 A/P, I didn't have the time or the patience trying to figure out that original autopilot. I am flying mine, but the OP is still struggling with his panel. I wish him well. I try to keep my downloads user friendly and that is what I did to this download!

 

Rick :cool:

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You are overthinking this, il! My panel looked different because I use the 737-400 A/P panel instead of the one that comes with the aircraft download. I pop it up and placed it where the other controls were. The OP is using the original panel and is now going off half cocked about trying to edit the C-5 A/P .xml. He is overly fixated on what he wants to do.

 

Easy there, Mr. Z. I'm not going to apologize for being persistent. I know there's probably an easy solution to this, especially since with every other FSX plane I've flown you can turn on the AP without having it turn off the Alt Hold. I appreciate all the help you've offered but at the same time I can't blame you if you're growing tired of trying to help with this issue. As soon as I find someone who knows how to find the code in question, I think it will be resolved. I'll give up when I feel I've reached a dead end. I'll wait and see what il88pp can find. If not, the FSDeveloper site may be my next stop. Some of the posts & replies I see there are from some serious code-aholics. Now there are two people who think I'm half-cocked: You and my wife; but for different reasons of course!

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gregory

to get the question clear:

are you trying to edit the original AP that comes with this aircraft?

 

Or did you put another AP in and does that not work properly?

 

I'm trying to edit the AP that came with the aircraft. I found the AUTOPILOT.xml file in ALPHA_C-5.cab located in the panel.1 folder. Here is the section of code I found. Purely on a guess/test I changed (>K:AP_ALT_HOLD_OFF) to (>K:AP_ALT_HOLD_ON) but when I loaded the C-5 back into FSX, all of the 2D gauges were missing.

 




(A:Autopilot Master,bool) if{ 0 (>L:HOLD SPEED,bool) (>K:AP_AIRSPEED_OFF) (>K:AP_MACH_OFF) (>K:AP_ALT_HOLD_ON) (>K:AP_HEADING_OFF) (>K:AP_NAV1_HOLD_OFF) (>K:AP_WING_LEVELER_OFF) } 0 (>K:AP_MASTER)

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I don't see the problem. The AP that coes with the plane is perfectly usablke and works well.

 

You say you want to:

pre-program altitude

pre program heading

pre-program speed number

pre-engage AutoThrottle

and then

switch on Alt-hld

and switch on hdg-hld

(everything set, but no active AP or AT that steer the plane yet at that point)

 

then take off and climb

and then

engage AP-Master

and engage SPD-hld

to have everything engaged and the AP and AT steering the plane.

 

I guess your goal is to engage everything quickly.

 

----------------------------

With this autopilot you can easily achieve te same:

pre-program altitude

pre program heading

pre-program speed number

 

take off, and then:

engage Alt-hld (AP MASTER engages as well)

engage hdg-hld ((AP MASTER is already engaged)

click speed hld (Autothrottle now manages airspeed.)

 

Again everything is engaged and the AP and AT steering the plane.

If your goal is to engage everything quickly it's easily acieved. More easily then in other planes even.

 

-----------------------

-----------------------

You also mentioned in another thread that when you engage Alt0hld the plane only holds the current altitude. And that it does not climb to the set altitude like you want.

That is not true.

In theis plane, with the included AP, when the AP is engaged the plane does climb to the set target altitude just fine.

 

If you had a problem it was because of the way you switched Alt-Hld on.

You used a keyboard shortcut for "hold current altitude". (at least that's what you said in that thread. I have looked but found no such shortcut in the keyboard assignments list.)

If you use a shortcut for "HOLD CURRENT ALTITUDE" then that is what the plane will do.

It is not caused by the autopilot gauge that was supplied with this plane.

And to fix it you need to use a different keyboard shortcut. Or just click the AP to engage it.

 

The argument you used of "my desk is too small to put a mouse on" is a bit ludicrous. Jost move your joystick to the middle of the desk. Keyboard on the left hand side and mouse on the right hand side.

My own PC desk is only 100 cm/32.5 Inch wide. That's relatively small too. But there is ample space for a keyboard, joystic, and mouse.

 

--------------------

--------------------

Another complaint you had is that when you disengage AP the spd-hld and Alt-Hld (and their lights) switch off as well.

Why is that a problem? If AP is off, the Alt and Heading are no longer controlled by the AP.

If the lights for Alt-Hld and Hdg-Hld were to stay on, you might think the AP is still controlling the flight path.

The light going off serves as a very useful warning that you will now have to fly the plane yourself again.

 

---------------------

---------------------

And yes, in this Autopilot/Autothrottle system, when you disengage Autothrottle, the Autopilot will switch off as well.

It's actually a Boeing RULE in real aircraft. "Never fly with only AP of only AT. Use them together, or don't use any of the two."

Reason for that Rule: Elevator trim is a result of speed settings and Autopilot. Using AT only, or AP only will result in an aircraft being completly out of trim limits very quickly. And leads to crashes.

 

The creators clearly tried to put that in this plane as well.

Autothrottle off ----> gauge switches Autopilot off as well.

 

------------------

----------------

If you don't like any of that, remove this autopilot altogether from the plane, and replace it with another one. Like MrZippy did for example.

Yu will then also want to edit the aircraft.cfg to say:

autothrottle_arming_required=1

 

(at the moment it has a line autothrottle_arming_required=0 )

 

--------------------------

Much more fun is to use the AP that came with the aircraft and learn.

If you want I can give you an edit to the panel.cfg that puts the AP that came with the aircraft in the VC.

Makes practicing with it a lot more fun.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Please refer to replies # 57 and # 58 at your previous thread .

 

Link,

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?317239-Heavy-Jet-ILS-Glide-Slope-Problem

 

Cheers

Karol

 

The editing of the XML file you prescribed in the other thread you listed above did the trick, Karol! Thanks for you patience and understanding. I knew there had to be a simple fix for this.

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The argument you used of "my desk is too small to put a mouse on" is a bit ludicrous. Jost move your joystick to the middle of the desk. Keyboard on the left hand side and mouse on the right hand side.

 

That's really unfair to say something like that, especially since you really don't know my set-up. I'm a video producer by trade and have a very powerful computer/large monitor set-up dedicated for video production. I should have been more specific about the desk size. It is a very large desk that is packed with video and audio production equipment... audio mixer, monitor, video switching console, etc. None of it can easily be moved. That leaves just enough room for a keyboard in the center and space on the right for the joystick and mouse. There is NO room on the left. There is no room in front of or behind the keyboard. That means both the joystick & mouse MUST remain on the right. So your idea of putting the joystick in the center is a non-starter because that's where the keyboard needs to be & cannot be moved. And here's the real kicker... the desk is 5 inches thick making it difficult to even attach a yoke.

 

My video production suite has an incredible pro quality sound system and a very nice, large monitor so flying is really enjoyable, at least for me. I didn't know my simple request was going to stir up such a hornet's nest. I've been flying Micro FS since FS 95, so I'm certainly not a newbie here.

 

I have a large widescreen TV in another room of my studio and every now and then I like to set up out there with a wireless mouse & keyboard and feed my video from the computer video via long HDMI cable. The sound system out there is even more incredible so the sim experience is even better out there. But during the day when I want to take a quick flight from Miami to Nassau in the Learjet, I can do that in the studio.

 

The fix I was seeking was actually quite simple, just as I thought. Karol showed me how to remove a small bit of code in an .xml file and now the C-5 autopilot AP Master & Alt Hold interact just like all the other FSX aircraft I've ever flown. Is it the most "realistic" flight experience? No, but at least I can use my main studio set-up to enjoy a quick flight with the limitations of having the joystick and mouse both on the right without sacrificing too much realism. Then, time permitting, I can set up in the other room where there's plenty of room for everything. I really should buy a yoke for when I fly in the other room.

 

Do you have any recommendations for a yoke?

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Quote: 'There is NO room on the left. There is no room in front of or behind the keyboard. That means both the joystick & mouse MUST remain on the right.'

 

Maybe try this? (see pic). I LOVE this setup. I fly everyting with it at 45 degrees to my right with no issues of control or accuracy. Funny how our brains work, eh? You could put 'locking' wheels on the spkr box and then be able to move it in/out of position in a jiffy.

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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Quote: Maybe try this? (see pic). I LOVE this setup. I fly everyting with it at 45 degrees to my right with no issues of control or accuracy. Funny how our brains work, eh? You could put 'locking' wheels on the spkr box and then be able to move it in/out of position in a jiffy.

Chuck B

Napamule

 

Thanks for the good suggestion but here's the deal with my desk: It has two wings on either side that extend out two feet so I would not be able to have things at an angle like that. The desk is perfect for producing & editing videos, which it was designed for, but it's barely workable for simming. The desk is so thick that I can't even attach a yoke to it.

 

But Karol was able to fix the AP Master/Alt Hold issue I was having so that problem is solved. One thing I'm starting to do is set up a couple of wooden TV trays out in our lobby where there is a large widescreen TV perfect for simming. I have a USB extension cord for the joystick and a dedicated wireless mic & keyboard so I don't have to move the computer. It's something I can do from time to time. I especially like that set up for night flying as you can see all the lights and detail on the ground much better.

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Hey, at least you got some results with the AP issue. That's great. And sounds like you have it all worked out so you can go to the lobby and do simming via 'remote' setup. Very clever and innovative way to sim. Beats my system (ha). Have a good one. One for yourself and one for me (hehe).

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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