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Heavy Jet ILS Glide Slope Problem


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Gregory - Stick with Karol's suggestion as you have already tried it, and it worked! I just this morning downloaded Mike Stones Lockheed C5A and it flies right down the glide scope at 145 KNOTS. No severe drop when the ILS glide scope is intercepted. For as big as it is, it flies very stable! I think I have found another "keeper!"

 

Rick :cool:

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I think it's also a MOI's problrm too. The MOI's are too high in my opinion. I myself would reduce the MOI's until it starts to shake (on the ground) then increase until the shaking stops.

 

So, yeah, speed has to be the prime factor. But did you increase the vertical time constant to 9.9? Then it might 'work'. And to not get the GPW use this:

 

[GPWS]

//This Disables the 'don't sink', 'too low-flaps', etc call outs

//Courtesy of & Thanks to Rob Barendgret.

max_warning_height=0

sink_rate_fpm=-9999

excessive_sink_rate_fpm=-9999

climbout_sink_rate_fpm=-9999

flap_and_gear_sink_rate_fpm=-9999

 

Some of these model that are 'for FS9 and FSX', or 'updated for FSX', need tweaking for them to handle well in FSX. If the model (looks, features, etc) is what you want you must learn to tweak it if it don't fly right. Trial & Error. Educated guess. Compare values to simular and match. Or simply use a cfg and air from a simular model that flys right. It work, but very satisfying if you prevail.

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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So, yeah, speed has to be the prime factor. But did you increase the vertical time constant to 9.9? Then it might 'work'. And to not get the GPW use this:

 

[GPWS]

//This Disables the 'don't sink', 'too low-flaps', etc call outs

//Courtesy of & Thanks to Rob Barendgret.

max_warning_height=0

sink_rate_fpm=-9999

excessive_sink_rate_fpm=-9999

climbout_sink_rate_fpm=-9999

flap_and_gear_sink_rate_fpm=-9999

 

OK I bumped up the vertical time constant to 9.9 and it makes the landing even better. Thanks!

 

I have a few questions about your suggested GPWS code:

 

Into which file does this go?

 

Is this completely new code to add or value changes to add to existing code?

 

Instead of turning it off completely, is there away to adjust the warning threshold?

Edited by Gregory_Douglas
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Gregory,

The GPWS section goes anywhere on your aircraft cfg. As is it will silent the warnings (annoying voice) but you can play with the values (ie: 0, -9999: which are 'feet') to your hearts content. I never did figure out what values work for which airplane. I just don't want that annoying voice swawking at me. I know when I am going to crash (hehe).

 

So 'Copy' this text from post (it's just text so it 'ok'), then open aircraft cfg, and then right click anywhere and tick 'Paste', then do 'File/SAVE' (cfg) and you are done. Have fun.

Chuck B

Napamule

Edited by napamule2
i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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I have one more issue to resolve on the C-5:

 

On most aircraft you can set a preselected AP altitude that's higher than your current altitude then when you use a keyboard or joystick shortcut to activate the Alt Hold, the plane will climb to that preselected altitude. But with this C5, I can't do that, at least with the keyboard/joystick shortcuts. When I use those shortcuts, it simply holds the current altitude. However if I set a higher preselected AP altitude and use the mouse to click on the Alt Hold button on the inst panel, it does climb up to the higher preselected altitude. How do I get the Alt Hold keyboard/joystick shortcut to climb up to the higher altitude as well?

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Gregory - Glad to hear you got your issue resolved! On your last request above, I can't give/offer any suggestions that will help you! I do have to ask though, if the mouse is working, why would you want the keyboard/joystick assignments to work for this function? I would much prefer the "point and click" for not only the altitude hold, but also for the altitude itself!! When flying at a certain altitude, say 4000', you will already have the Alt Hold button engaged for 4000', and when making the change to say 5000', you can merely leave the hold button engaged and then rotate the altitude to the newly desired 5000', never touching the hold button. And the aircraft should then climb to your new desired 5000', not really caring how you did it!

 

Save your keyboard/joystick assignments for those things that you can't do with a mouse!

 

This is JMHO, you do what you like, you're the one in charge of your Flight Sim! :rolleyes:

 

Enjoy! Rick :cool:

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I do have to ask though, if the mouse is working, why would you want the keyboard/joystick assignments to work for this function?

 

I like to preset my attitude. Before take-off, I pre-select my altitude & VS and activate the Alt Hold button but not the Master AP switch. Then after I rotate, I have to keep my right hand on the joystick to maintain the climb and use the left hand to press a button on the joystick to activate the Master AP switch and since the Alt Hold is already on, the plane maintains its climb. Since I’m right handed, the joystick & mouse are both on my right so I really can’t use the mouse during those moments after rotating. This method works wonderfully on all aircraft except the C-5. That’s because you can’t have the Alt Hold button on and the AP button off. When you activate the Alt Hold, the AP button automatically comes on. Then when you turn off the AP button, the Alt Hold goes off.

 

I can trick the C-5 into this “Alt Hold on/Master AP off” mode by selecting those settings in one of the stock aircraft then switching to the C-5.

 

So I guess what I really need to know is how can I revise the aircraft.cfg (or other file) so that I can activate Alt Hold without automatically activating the master AP?

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I am also right handed and having my joystick in my hand.........:eek: (just pausing for any snide remarks!)... I have moved my mouse pad and mouse to the left side of the keyboard and flip on any of the A/P or other appropriate buttons or switches while maintaining control of the aircraft. Works like a charm! ;)

 

Are you able to do it the opposite way by having your pre-selected altitude dialed in, use your default VS, and turn on A/P master switch before takeoff, then hit altitude hold/heading hold with whatever joystick button you have programmed after wheels up?

Edited by mrzippy

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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Are you able to do it the opposite way by having your pre-selected altitude dialed in, use your default VS, and turn on A/P master switch before takeoff, then hit altitude hold/heading hold with whatever joystick button you have programmed after wheels up?

 

Any time you activate Alt Hold with a keyboard or joystick shortcut, any preset will be replaced by the current altitude. After doing some Googling I found that FSX does indeed have two alt holds... a "current" alt hold and a "preset" alt hold. The preset alt hold only works with a mouse click. There is no special keyboard/joystick shortcut for "preset" alt hold. The procedure I outlined in my previous post works with all my other aircraft but not the C-5 because when you click on Alt Hold it activates Master AP as well and then when you head down the runway, the AP decides when to rotate. There's gotta be a way to set up the C-5 like other aircraft where you can select Alt Hold and then activate Master AP without the Alt Hold turning off. The problem I have with moving the mouse to the left is there is no room over there on my desk. It's a very tight cockpit LOL.

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How about just learning (practicing) to hand fly. I usually take off and hand fly to between 5 and 10 thousand feet. Then I steady the plane manually. (steady speed and correctly trimmed while level or slowly climbing at steady vertical speed). That way I can take my right hand off the stick (is in the center of the desk) and use it to grab the mouse (on the right side of the desk. I use the mouse to set and engage autopilot and autothrottle.

 

In that C5 I would climb to cruising altitude and do the same procedure up there. Steady the plane, this time a steady speed at a level altitude, and engage Altitude hold (and autothrottle of course).

 

I don't fly the C5 but do fly other planes with an autopilot like that. Fsx default F18 for example, but also some addon prop planes.

 

To get the hang of climbing manually it's probably best to start in a smaller plane. Default beech baron for example.

In a fast plane like a 737 small trim adjustments will have a lot of effect. It will be hard to control. Much easier to do in a small plane. So that is what should be used while practicing.

 

Good exercises:

1

climb manually to 8000ft and level off. Trim and adjust power so you can fly level there for a minute or so without touching the stick. If you steadied and trimmed correctly the plane should not climb much in that minute, should not descend too much, and should not increase speed too much.

If it does do those things, try again. Just keep flying get back to 8000ft and adjust throttle and trim better. When you are confident the plane is steadied, let go of the stick again and see if you got it this time.

 

2

climb using power to 10000ft. Reduce power to stop climb at 10000 while managing trim (small adjustments!) to keep speed steady.

End up flying level at 10000, steady enough to take hands off stick for a while.

 

3

By adjusting power and trim, increase speed 40 knots. But do this while sticking to the 10000ft as tight as possible.

Get it so you steady at that speed and altitude for a while without touching the stick.

 

4

(4 is 3 in reverse.).

Stick as tightly as you can to the 10000ft while reducing speed this time by 40 knots.

Again of course to the point where you can let in do the stick for a minute or so.

 

(my config on desk: monitor in middle, stick which has built in throttle also. Mouse on right hand side, keyboard on left side of desk.)

 

have fun practicing.:)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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What you are trying to do is to have the AP land the C-5. You set Alt to Alt of the runway then hit Alt Hold and the AP is 'supposed' to land the C-5 (including when to 'rotate' (I think you meant FLAIR?) which is totally BOGUS. That is called ILS landing but not using Alt Hold but APR (Aproach). If your other airplanes do allow this then just change the C-5 panel to a panel from the 'other' airplane that 'works'. So it's the panel that causes AP to engage when you turn Alt Hold On. Not the C-5. The PANEL. It's a PANEL problem (due to gauge(s) and it's XML coding). You could edit the XML by finding where it says 'AP engages when Alt Hold is turned on=1' (or simular). As il88pp says. Do hand landings. There is where the 'cigar' is. Not just trying to let the AP do the landing. You joined the forum so we could 'solve' this 'problem' you having? You did not think about it logically, either. One gauge in panel giving you trouble and you want to re-design the simulator? Dump the C-5 panel and use a Boeing or simular panel - THAT is the 'real' solution. Maybe. Maybe not. Auto Land using Alt Hold? Give me a break!!!

Chuck B l

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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What you are trying to do is to have the AP land the C-5. You set Alt to Alt of the runway then hit Alt Hold and the AP is 'supposed' to land the C-5 (including when to 'rotate' (I think you meant FLAIR?) which is totally BOGUS. That is called ILS landing but not using Alt Hold but APR (Aproach). If your other airplanes do allow this then just change the C-5 panel to a panel from the 'other' airplane that 'works'. So it's the panel that causes AP to engage when you turn Alt Hold On. Not the C-5. The PANEL. It's a PANEL problem (due to gauge(s) and it's XML coding). You could edit the XML by finding where it says 'AP engages when Alt Hold is turned on=1' (or simular). As il88pp says. Do hand landings. There is where the 'cigar' is. Not just trying to let the AP do the landing. You joined the forum so we could 'solve' this 'problem' you having? You did not think about it logically, either. One gauge in panel giving you trouble and you want to re-design the simulator? Dump the C-5 panel and use a Boeing or simular panel - THAT is the 'real' solution. Maybe. Maybe not. Auto Land using Alt Hold? Give me a break!!!

Chuck B l

Napamule

 

Not sure who you're addressing this to but I for one do "hand" landings all the time. But there are some circumstances where an AP landing is preferred. For example, real life Airbus 320 Captain Jim Richards says this: "When I do use it (and in my experience this is true of my colleagues as well), it's because I'm required to due to low visibility, and in those situations I'm very happy I have it. Visibility is essentially the only factor (i.e. not snow, rain, wind, etc) that drives the decision to autoland."

 

So yeah, I'd like be able to land in inclement wx using AP. The problem I'm trying to solve is more of a keyboard/joystick problem due to the limited size of my cockpit (desk) which means I have to have the joystick and mouse on the right. It sounds like your idea to edit the XML file would do the trick. What is the name of that XML file and where can I find it?

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The XML is tied to a guage, so it would be in the gauges cab, and would involve the AP. But I think that you should get the file below first:

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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Oh, you don't ever have to use the mouse when landing I don't think. Your mouse had bottons? I have buttons on my joy for flaps and I use a USB 10 Key Pad ON THE LEFT SIDE of keyboard, and worked by my left hand - right hand stays on the joystick!) for throttle (F1-F4), spoiler, tailhook, pitch trim, snap to 2D panel, and view changes (A and S keys). I have my twist grip joy screwed to an old speaker (NOT on my desktop) which sits to my right at 45 degrees and always stays there. I fly everything with it and drive race cars (at LeMan4FSX track) with no problems at all. I also have a button on my joy mapped to 'Top Down' view which allows me to see the location of the runway even in inclemental weather as the 'Top Down' view will see right thru clouds or fog or smoke. Use my head (hehe).

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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OK, now I'm hearing the term "Autoland" being used. Are you now saying that you want your C-5 to land itself? So, you have no intentions of disarming the A/P at about 1/2 mile out and landing the aircraft yourself?

 

In that case, you will need to find and install an autoland gauge.

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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The problem at the moment seems to be about the use of the Autopilot fitted to your C-5 ,

it would help if you could post a screenshot of your panel , or even better of that autopilot .

Also could you check if your panel has a 'Radio Altitude' instrument .

 

Realistically autopilot functions are NOT assigned to controllers (joystick) , although there is one exception and that is the 'autopilot master switch' is sometimes assigned to the joystick .

The balance of autopilot settings and functions are done with the mouse .

 

In the Sim the maximum ILS range is 20 to 25 nm .

The APPROACH mode will guide you down the Glideslope to a Decision Height , usually about

200' above the runway , if you can see the runway you disconnect the autopilot , and go visual landing manually .

If you cannot see the runway due to weather at 200' you conduct a Missed Approach , which means that you put on power and climb to a safe altitude and proceed to an alternate airport .

You need the Radio Altitude to establish when you are at 200' .

 

Cheers

Karol

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Talk about realism, that's about as far away from realism as you can get!

 

"Different strokes for different folks" Charlie!

 

In the post I think you're referring to, I typed AP instead of Autoland. Re-read it and substitute the word Autoland for AP. My bad.

 

I included a quote from the Airbus pilot to show that autoland is indeed a very real thing that is used in the real world. If you read my post and make the word substitution I mentioned above, my sentence should read: "So yeah, I'd like be able to land in inclement wx using autoland." But as Mr. Zippy mentioned, I'd have to add an autoland gauge.

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'Radio Altitude' instrument .

 

 

.

If you cannot see the runway due to weather at 200' you conduct a Missed Approach , which means that you put on power and climb to a safe altitude and proceed to an alternate airport .

You need the Radio Altitude to establish when you are at 200' .

 

Cheers

Karol

 

Hi Karol! I really hope you mean "Radar Altimeter" Maybe referred to as a radio altimeter on that side of the pond. ;)

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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The problem at the moment seems to be about the use of the Autopilot fitted to your C-5 ,

it would help if you could post a screenshot of your panel , or even better of that autopilot .

Also could you check if your panel has a 'Radio Altitude' instrument .

 

Realistically autopilot functions are NOT assigned to controllers (joystick) , although there is one exception and that is the 'autopilot master switch' is sometimes assigned to the joystick .

The balance of autopilot settings and functions are done with the mouse .

 

In the Sim the maximum ILS range is 20 to 25 nm .

The APPROACH mode will guide you down the Glideslope to a Decision Height , usually about

200' above the runway , if you can see the runway you disconnect the autopilot , and go visual landing manually .

If you cannot see the runway due to weather at 200' you conduct a Missed Approach , which means that you put on power and climb to a safe altitude and proceed to an alternate airport .

You need the Radio Altitude to establish when you are at 200' .

 

Cheers

Karol

 

Yes, the only thing I need to assign to a joystick button is Master AP. I was just asking if there was a way to configure the C-5 autopilot so that it behaves like all the other aircraft I have whereas you can select an altitude, turn on the alt hold switch, then actually activate the alt hold by using a joystick button assigned to Master AP. With the C-5, Alt Hold turns off when the Master AP switch is turned on. Here's a screenshot of the C-5 panel. From the responses I've been getting it looks like editing an XML file might do the trick.

 

C-5 2D.jpg

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Is my advice, learning how to hand fly, is not an option for you?

 

Of course it is. But as in the real world there are times flying AP is needed such as inclement wx. I just spoke to a friend of mine who flies the NY-London route for Delta and he filled me in on all the situations where the AP comes in handy.

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Sit down, buckle up and hang on! I installed an autoland gauge that works just fine. I did a test flight from Beale to Vandenberg landing "hands off" on the ILS runway12 in fogged in conditions.

 

Approach to runway12

Vandenberg approach.JPG

 

Landing

Autoland touchdown.JPG

 

Stand by for the file I used.

 

FSX - FSX Panels FSX ILS CATII And III Autoland Gauges Part II

[ Download | View ]

Name: ils_cat_ii_and_iii_autoland_gauges_part_ii.zip

Size: 6,944 Date: 06-12-2015 Downloads: 641

 

FSX ILS CATII And III Autoland Gauges Part II. This is an ILS CAT II and III autoland gauge for various aircraft. Aircraft included are TDS B737NG 600, 700, 800, 900, TDS B787 (all models). Fine tuned for each one. With or without the autothrust engaged. Includes several options for ILS procedures. Published with permission from Stefan Liebe who is the original author and Francois Dore who developed it further. By Dimitrios Moschos.

[TABLE=align: center] [TR=bgcolor: #EFEFEF] [TD]

[/TD] [TD]

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [/TR] [/TABLE] Just add the 787 folder containing the file to your panel folder, then add the line to your [Window00] in the panel.cfg.

 

Make sure you are set up properly for landing. I used 160knots and cut autothrottle at the threshold.

Edited by mrzippy

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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