A new FS?

You don't need to read anything or see anything on the new MSFS to already understand many things.

The game is less than 18 months from release. It's a little too late to work with the community. The core of what this game will be is already established. What MS clearly want is to look at feedback to see how what they have built will likely be perceived. They can then tweak small elements to help sell the game more successfully. People will be adding complex wish lists galore, none of them will be introduced.

The expectation is the game will be a fully fledged flight sim to replace FSX, P3D, X-Plane. To develop a flight sim to any of these standards takes time. What was achieved with FSX even by today's standards is quite incredible. To expect one single game built from the ground up to reach this level of complexity, in a 2019 gaming environment, be cross platform as well, my god.

It just isn't going to happen. I'll happily eat my words because what I will need to witness is the most incredible feat of game development in the history of gaming.

Well, it is probably far too early for us to be told more that what MS has already released, and so far, it does seem that we have interesting times ahead, & a lot more speculation as more 'teaser' comments by MS are posted.

What catches my eye is the following:

Another flight simulator for us, to add to our collection (FS9, FSX, P3D, FlightGear, etc)

Never have we had so many choices to suit how we enjoy our hobby.

(Mark, enjoy your flying goats)

FSM will be release first for PC's then Xbox, with their 63 million users, when Xbox One is released.

This can open up a huge new market for users AND potential new developers.

Great news that 3rd part developers can climb onto the bandwagon, Hopefully the freeware developers as well. Yes, more choices for us. DLC's? Why not? It makes it far easier for new simmers to add any additions into their sim. At a price? Of course, its a business, & we have choices of how & where we spend our money (& how much!).

It's also great that MS is taking notice of us, they have a huge target market out there.

Imagine if Microsoft comes out with a branded range of Yokes, pedals & joysticks? (obviously for Xbox & PC)..

Lol, sure, we know nothing more that what MS has told us, & shown us... So what.. we have nearly 18 months ahead of us to what & see further teaser movies.

Those cynics out there.... stick with your Windows 7, negativity, and critical comments from a less than 2 minute teaser... We have exciting time ahead of us!

Those cynics out there.... stick with your Windows 7, negativity, and critical comments from a less than 2 minute teaser... We have exciting time ahead of us!

Thank you!!! The SIMULATOR will come out and they will still complain because they can't run it on their dinosaurs.

Thank you!!! The SIMULATOR will come out and they will still complain because they can't run it on their dinosaurs.

Haha, if you don't take all this seriously it's quite a lot of fun. I don't have a dinosaur but still can't see myself ever switching from FS9 because in 2021, it will STILL be the best flight sim.

I hope time goes fast so we can clear all this stuff up! lol

Haha, if you don't take all this seriously it's quite a lot of fun. I don't have a dinosaur but still can't see myself ever switching from FS9 because in 2021, it will STILL be the best flight sim.

I hope time goes fast so we can clear all this stuff up! lol

Ah, the diversity! We have people who think FSX is dead, and others who think FS9 is the greatest ever. As you say, it's all fun (provided you don't get bent out of shape by the "dead" comments and other nonsense). Personally I am an incurable FSX addict, and having a ball!

I hope the new sim is more of a successor to FSX than Flight but we'll all know eventually...

Why don't we all just bookmark this thread (I am) and when the dust settles we will all see exactly what MS hath wrought and make our subsequent choices in an informed manner. I suspect that I will be too old to deal with starting over with another (airplane/world) simulator. I have to save my energy for dealing with all the angst of the still-developing Star Citizen.

Just so you know, I've got FSX/P3D on each of my OS's and fly with a MP group twice a week. I favor unusual a/c for downloading from the library here and have been making flightplans for our group flights for nearly a decade. I'm set for the rest of my life and I don't begrudge what path or sim choice anyone else prefers. I did not try Flight and probably will give the new sim a pass also regardless of its features.

Happy flyin'

Loyd

Whilst everyone is entitled to their own opinion, how is this even the best flight sim now?

For me it is. I'm not suggesting it is for everyone else, each to their own. Take your pick, there is something for everyone regarding sims. Many reasons FS9 works for me over the rest.

FSX - I don't want to deal with and watch VAS.

P3D - The licensing arrangement can't last forever. Globally, internet laws are tightening up on arrangements like LM have in place. P3D is liable at some stage to just disappear overnight if their licensing arrangement is legally pressured or they may change the licensing arrangement to be a little more realistic. Until their licensing arrangement changes, I would not sink any dollars in. The same for add-ons and updates. If I buy something, I want the latest version of my sim and my add-on to still work in it. I don't want to sit there worrying my fav add-on may no longer work in the next version.

X-Plane - No AI or ATC and limited add-ons. Long way to go to be a fully featured flight sim and I may run out of lifetime before that happens at the rate of XP development. I'm not that old either! lol

In all the above sims no matter how good your PC, you have to also deal with FPS. I also still like 2D panels and the other sims are all very much VC sims.

Overall, FS9 is perfect for me. It has everything required to simulate flight, a million add-ons, bonus of some payware getting released as freeware, flawless performance, no stress, nothing to do but fly planes.

Ah, the diversity! We have people who think FSX is dead, and others who think FS9 is the greatest ever. As you say, it's all fun (provided you don't get bent out of shape by the "dead" comments and other nonsense). Personally I am an incurable FSX addict, and having a ball!

The seriousness of flight simmers amazes me. I think it has to do partially with the age range. The term "old and grumpy" had to come from somewhere. lol

PC gaming should be fun and that's all it is, PC gaming. You won't be given a real pilot's license no matter how many thousands of hours you sit behind your screen with a flight sim running.

No sim or game is ever dead. People are still playing games decades old. A game is dead for you when you no longer play it and that's about it.

Enjoy your FSX!

...stick with your Windows 7

Did you ever think perhaps Microsoft would have never have started Flight Simulator 2020 if it wasn't for so many of us users refusing to sheepishly accept Windows 10? (Exception being mrzippy who refuses to accept anything except Windows XP :) )

I for one will put Windows 10 on a removable boot drive so I can use FS2020

And I for one will happily install 10 providing I use Pfsense in a thin client for a hardware-based firewall blocking all of M$'s ASNs and anything else that shouldn't be there viewing SNMP. LOL

I hardly ever use an "update" anyway. The term update is a fallacy. It's an upsidedown with serious lack of QC.

Anyway, yeah, XP was a great OS back then. But as the Internet progresses forward with new web-based technologies, XP and the browser you can run on it won't be able to use those technologies.

FSM will be release first for PC's then Xbox, with their 63 million users, when Xbox One is released.

This can open up a huge new market for users AND potential new developers.

This is the first thing I said, it will be on Xbox. No idea if your 63 million is correct but if it is, how many users do you think are under 20 years old? How many under 30 years old? How many sub 30 year olds want to sit there learning a fully fledged flight sim with 500 pages of manual to simply make a plane go up and then come down without even blowing anything up??? lol

I just can't understand how people can believe MSFS will be a sim built for post 50 year olds who can afford a super duper PC capable of running all these things they are wishing for. They make up 1% of the gaming market across PC and Xbox.

MS would be insane to release a fully fledged flight sim in today's world imo. I don't think we will ever see one again to be honest. The industry has changed. I think what everyone will be getting is a reworked FSW.

Time just can't move fast enough! lol

I think what everyone will be getting is a reworked FSW.

I agree Mark, in particular the FSW business model - remember that? Also, Microsoft's latest statement mentions working with "3rd party Content Developers", what do they mean by "Content" exactly? If they meant scenery, aircraft, weather, AI and ATC, surely they'd have said so? In FSW, "Content" turned out to be Missions, and Dovetail released a Mission Creator pretty quickly, but were very reluctant to release an SDK for any other elements. I know nothing about XBox, so I've no idea how 3rd party add-ons created for the PC version could be installed into the XBox version, or vice-versa, except as DLC. Is it possible, is there an existing XBox game where this is happening already?

I agree Mark, in particular the FSW business model - remember that? Also, Microsoft's latest statement mentions working with "3rd party Content Developers", what do they mean by "Content" exactly? If they meant scenery, aircraft, weather, AI and ATC, surely they'd have said so? In FSW, "Content" turned out to be Missions, and Dovetail released a Mission Creator pretty quickly, but were very reluctant to release an SDK for any other elements. I know nothing about XBox, so I've no idea how 3rd party add-ons created for the PC version could be installed into the XBox version, or vice-versa, except as DLC. Is it possible, is there an existing XBox game where this is happening already?

Xbox is capable of running a lot. The new Xbox will be very capable for sure. The point is, the demographic using Xbox's is young kids who have no real interest in hardcore sims. Serious gamers or simmers still tend to be the desktop PC crowd. A hardcore flight sim on XBox will attract how many of those 63 million current users? Answer is hardly any.

What is a concern is looking at the market. Our generation is no longer what developer's are aiming at. The young generation come from phone games, tablet games, start the game up and learn as you play. They are not like us who miss our 100+ page printed game manuals and want every detail explained for the game we are playing. They want it simple, fast, get into it and start moving through the game at a rapid pace. A hardcore flight sim is anything but this.

MS have carefully chosen their words which really confirm nothing. Will this be a continuation of MSFS as we know it? Stating the focus is "simulation" means nothing. Most of the flight games on phones are apparently flight simulators as well along with the Goat Simulator! lol

The way they described content is very suspicious. They are clearly leaving details out. What modern game doesn't have DLC's to strip your bank account? I'm sure there will be content but exactly what type of content created by who and how I have no idea.

I'm not being negative, I'm being rational. Heck, I would love to see a new flight sim too but the market and times are not what they were 15 years ago. Every game being developed today demonstrates this. A fully fledged flight sim today is just so out of place let alone one that will function across two platforms.

An easy way to upgrade the sim's AIRAC data to match navigraph cycles.

Above is a typical want, wish, request for the new flight sim from a member of the other site.

Could you imagine trying to explain this MSFS feature to a 14 year old on his Xbox??? lol

I know nothing about XBox, so I've no idea how 3rd party add-ons created for the PC version could be installed into the XBox version, or vice-versa, except as DLC. Is it possible, is there an existing XBox game where this is happening already?

The Minecraft Marketplace and the Steam Workshop are two examples of how user created content can be distributed. Provided they keep it open to free content, I can it being better than the current situation of manually copying files into the right places. How many forum posts are there with people needing installing freeware aircraft, scenery etc.? And just because many here have got quite comfortable with the current situation doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

https://marketplace.minecraft.net/en-us

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/

Xbox is capable of running a lot. The new Xbox will be very capable for sure. The point is, the demographic using Xbox's is young kids who have no real interest in hardcore sims. Serious gamers or simmers still tend to be the desktop PC crowd. A hardcore flight sim on XBox will attract how many of those 63 million current users? Answer is hardly any.

 

What is a concern is looking at the market. Our generation is no longer what developer's are aiming at. The young generation come from phone games, tablet games, start the game up and learn as you play. They are not like us who miss our 100+ page printed game manuals and want every detail explained for the game we are playing. They want it simple, fast, get into it and start moving through the game at a rapid pace. A hardcore flight sim is anything but this.

 

MS have carefully chosen their words which really confirm nothing. Will this be a continuation of MSFS as we know it? Stating the focus is "simulation" means nothing. Most of the flight games on phones are apparently flight simulators as well along with the Goat Simulator! lol

 

The way they described content is very suspicious. They are clearly leaving details out. What modern game doesn't have DLC's to strip your bank account? I'm sure there will be content but exactly what type of content created by who and how I have no idea.

 

I'm not being negative, I'm being rational. Heck, I would love to see a new flight sim too but the market and times are not what they were 15 years ago. Every game being developed today demonstrates this. A fully fledged flight sim today is just so out of place let alone one that will function across two platforms.

Apparently you aren't very familiar with the Xbox demographics. The largest age group is in the 25-34 year old bracket, followed by the 35-44 year old group. And more than 50% have an annual income over $50,000.

https://www.windowscentral.com/heres-some-interesting-stats-about-xbox-one-owners-microsoft-shared-partners

Browsing through game forums, there is interest in a more realistic sim, however, many get turned off by the complexity of the current sims themselves as well as the outdated graphics. And by complexity, I'm not talking about flying an aircraft, but the actual sims themselves (too much messing with config files, install locations, issues installing add-ons etc.). Not to mention how poorly they can run on modern hardware (and yes, plenty of people under 30 have PCs just as powerful as anyone on this site does).

When it comes to attention spans, many people in the gaming world have no trouble putting plenty of time into them. Open world and RPGs are quite popular and often allow users to come up with their own objectives in the games. Check out Eve Online and the complexity of the universe that has been created for one example.

Here are some examples of things users have put together in Minecraft. Not exactly something that a person with a 5 minute attention span would do.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109385-Computer-Built-in-Minecraft-Has-RAM-Performs-Division#&gid=gallery_206&pid=1

http://www.industrytap.com/minecraft-player-creates-game-calculator/22760

Of course Microsoft is choosing their words carefully, one always does when marketing software. Give too much info up front and you get in trouble later for breaking "promises" when something changes.

They don't need to make a sim that attracts everyone in the gaming community, just one that gets the attention of those interested in flying, which is something that spans generations. Plenty of younger people are still interested in flying and becoming pilots. A good sim can only encourage that.

The Minecraft Marketplace and the Steam Workshop are two examples of how user created content can be distributed.

There's an XBox Marketplace too. I've used the Steam Store and Steam Workshop myself and I agree it's much quicker and less hassle especially if you need to re-install for any reason - I think of it as the DLC installation method.

My question is, is it possible to download files from a 3rd party online freeware library or payware store directly onto an XBox and install them into the game?

If not, I doubt that Microsoft would allow add-ons from anywhere to be installed into the PC version when the XBox version would be limited to the XBox Marketplace only - their intention is that FS2020 will help them to conquer the console market with their new XBox after all.

Apparently you aren't very familiar with the Xbox demographics. The largest age group is in the 25-34 year old bracket, followed by the 35-44 year old group. And more than 50% have an annual income over $50,000.

I absolutely would not believe that to be anywhere near an accurate representation.

We can only wait and see. Will it be a MSFS built from the ground up with all the features packed into one sim that no other developer including MS has ever been able to achieve in one game or will it be a rebadged, reworked FSW? I wish there was some betting available on all these things going on! lol

I absolutely would not believe that to be anywhere near an accurate representation.

We can only wait and see. Will it be a MSFS built from the ground up with all the features packed into one sim that no other developer including MS has ever been able to achieve in one game or will it be a rebadged, reworked FSW? I wish there was some betting available on all these things going on! lol

Why not? What are you basing your assumption on? Did you read the link I provided? Those numbers came from Microsoft. There are other surveys that show the average age of people playing games is in the 30s too.

Why not? What are you basing your assumption on? Did you read the link I provided? Those numbers came from Microsoft. There are other surveys that show the average age of people playing games is in the 30s too.

I answered above. It's a MS survey, not independent, it's based (according to my calculations) on a massive 0.003% of current Xbox users and we have no idea what criteria MS used to select this incredibly select group of it's users and for what particular purpose. Those figures just may possibly be a little misleading! lol

This is what I am trying to get across to people, look beyond the marketing and pretty presentations.

How far and how long has it taken to get flight sims to where they are now? FSX took decades, LM had to use MSFS, how far have they progressed it in all their time? X-Plane has come how far over how long???

An all-in-one super flight sim just isn't going to happen and be sold to a market that just isn't there.

Of course Microsoft is choosing their words carefully, one always does when marketing software. Give too much info up front and you get in trouble later for breaking "promises" when something changes.

While this thread is still up top and I won't be bumping it back up, I'll comment on one more thing that hopefully people will see.

If the new MSFS will be what people are expecting, a continuation of the franchise, the need to state this from MS would be blatantly obvious and in no way be a statement that will come back to bite them.

They have instead decided to use the term "Simulator" which is the biggest giveaway imo that what we will be getting will be a typical modern flight game. Don't get me wrong, it may still be the best and most realistic modern flight game but that certainly does not mean it will be a fully fledged flight sim or replacement for anything that we are currently using.

So far they have promoted a "Flight Planner" from the outset. It's was mentioned from the beginning.

Now, if the best they can do is promote a flight planner as part of their "simulation" campaign, we are in trouble. A flight planner isn't a feature, it's a base tool required in any flight sim and to be fully expected. It doesn't need to be mentioned and certainly if this was to be a fully fledged flight sim they would have a million other better things to make mention of than the everyday flight planner.

I'm so on my own! lol

Excellent news on the surface and, if the trailer is to be believed, unlike Dovetail's borked effort, will have passenger jets from the outset.

Subject to the hardware specs, I will definitely be in the market for this albeit with the caveat I shall keep FSX in reserve.

As an aside, do we know if this is being developed in house or if MS have outsourced. And the other thing is, given MS history with their train sim franchise (two aborted attempts at MSTS 2), I'll believe it when I can actually log on to their store and buy it... :)

That really is a "glass half empty" kind of review. Glad I don't watch his channel any more.

You clearly don't enjoy my videos. lol