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Can't do a complete barrel roll with X56 Stick


BigT-65

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Flying in FSX I can't do a complete barrel roll with my X56 stick. Regardless of which plane I am flying when attempting a roll it goes to the half way point then flips back. When this happens it is very difficult to regain control. The plane will not go completely over. I also have an X52 with which I have no problem with this. Has anyone else had this experience with the X56?
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I don't know anything about the X56, but it sounds like a calibration problem. What is the "half way point?" I'd think that would be 180º, which would be inverted, but "The plane will not go completely over." sounds as if it doesn't even get inverted.

 

Just for grins, while you're on the ground, hold ailerons for a minute or so, watching the (virtual) stick/yoke AND the ailerons on the wings to see if they snap back neutral or something.

 

One other thought. You don't mention roll rate, but a large difference in roll rate might have an effect, allowing speed to bleed off too much to complete the roll.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Outside of calibration, and sensitivity, your stick might not be the problem. It may be the airplane. Or rather it's roll and airleon settings/values in Air file's 1101 section. Look at 'aileron control factor'. If it's '-700' then change it to '-1800'. Then look at 'roll control factor'. If it's '-2800' then change it to '-4800'. I guarentee it will roll now. Maybe too much. Adjust 'factor' values as needed.

Chuck B

Napamule

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Flying in FSX I can't do a complete barrel roll with my X56 stick. Regardless of which plane I am flying when attempting a roll it goes to the half way point then flips back. When this happens it is very difficult to regain control. The plane will not go completely over. I also have an X52 with which I have no problem with this. Has anyone else had this experience with the X56?

 

Names of the aircraft? No point criticising the stick if the aircraft is at fault!

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He said with the other stick the many aircraft he used all work just fine.

 

So there is nothing wrong with the aircraft themselves.

 

I don't know the X56 that well but I would calibrate the X56 again. Also, probably best to have only one stick plugged in at a time.

Edited by il88pp
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Yes, but he did not say WHICH airplane he had problem rolling or whether he rolled IT with the other stick. So some details are missing. The X56 stick is $250 and only has a 90 day Warranty in the USA, but 2 years in Europe (say WHAT?). It seems to be a stick with defective construction that quits working too soon and support is no help. His real 'problem' may very well be a junky controller. Buyer Beware.

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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Yes, but he did not say WHICH airplane he had problem rolling or whether he rolled IT with the other stick.

He said: "Regardless of which plane I am flying when attempting a roll it goes to the half way point then flips back."

 

Implying several aircraft involved.

 

and he said: "I also have an X52 with which I have no problem with this. "

 

Implying that "this" means the same aircraft and procedure, with only the stick changed.

 

It would be helpful if the OP would come back and clarify all this. He's not responded to my question ( What is the "half way point?" ) in post #2 above, either.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Thanks for all the responses. I am doing some extra research on this by trying the roll with even more aircraft. So far it seems that the aircraft with the problem are all my A2A planes and the VRS Superbug. I loaded up my Aerosoft F-16 and it rolled just fine. Another thing I noticed that is really strange is when viewing from the locked spot view the one A2A plane I checked, the Military P-51, rolled over correctly. but when using the Virtual Cockpit or just the Regular Cockpit it doesn't roll all the way over. Or at least it doesn't look like it does. As I said in the previous post it looks like it flips back at exactly the inverted position. And as I mentioned before this is not the case with the X52. Later today I am going to try this with some of the stock FSX aircraft and some other ones I have.
i7 8700K CPU @ 4.8 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 3000 memory, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 MB, EVGA RTX 2060 Super XC GPU 8GB GDDR6 Memory, MasterAir MA610P CPU cooler, 1TB PCIe NVMe SSD, 500 GB SSD, 2T HDD, 3 Asus 24" monitors, Saitek X56 Rhino HOTAS.[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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il88pp said: '.. probably best to have only one stick plugged in at a time.' Did you read this and notice? If you have two sticks plugged in that might be the 'real' reason you can't roll. X56 says 'rolling'...X52 says 'why am I rolling' and snaps you back upright. Could be simple as that. As long as you DO have both plugged in you WILL have the same (or other) problems with your controller (or, suspect: A2A, FSUIPC, Windows, FSX, Saitek, the Moon, the wife, the kids, your neighbor (?), bad Karma, etc). Ha.

Chuck B

Napamule

i7 2600K @ 3.4 Ghz (Turbo-Boost to 3.877 Ghz), Asus P8H67 Pro, Super Talent 8 Gb DDR3/1333 Dual Channel, XFX Radeon R7-360B 2Gb DDR5, Corsair 650 W PSU, Dell 23 in (2048x1152), Windows7 Pro 64 bit, MS Sidewinder Precision 2 Joy, Logitech K-360 wireless KB & Mouse, Targus PAUK10U USB Keypad for Throttle (F1 to F4)/Spoiler/Tailhook/Wing Fold/Pitch Trim/Parking Brake/Snap to 2D Panel/View Change. Installed on 250 Gb (D:). FS9 and FSX Acceleration (locked at 30 FPS).
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No, I don't have both sticks plugged in at the same time. In fact, I had even uninstalled the X52 after checking the roll with it. Something I tried when testing yesterday was setting the Simulation Rate to Slowest so I could better see what was going on. It does, in fact, look like the plane is rolling all the way over. But just as it reaches the inverted position it jerks backward then forward and continues the roll. At normal speed this looks like it flips all the way back when it reaches the inverted position. I also tried a roll in every plane I had that I thought I could roll and they all do the same thing, including the F16 that I thought was OK. Also when watching in the spot plane view as the plane reaches inverted the nose drops down significantly before it continues the roll. I have also tried re-calibrating the stick including using the reg edit method. Which is basically a start over. At this point I don't know if it is a joystick problem or a video/display problem. I am going to go on the Logitech support forum and see if they know of a problem like this. I don't think it is this particular X56 stick because I actually have two of them and they both do the same thing. If it's the stick surely some other FSX simmers have the same problem. These people are hard to find though. It seems that most people using the X56 are Space flight simmers playing Elite Dangerous and the like.
i7 8700K CPU @ 4.8 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 3000 memory, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 MB, EVGA RTX 2060 Super XC GPU 8GB GDDR6 Memory, MasterAir MA610P CPU cooler, 1TB PCIe NVMe SSD, 500 GB SSD, 2T HDD, 3 Asus 24" monitors, Saitek X56 Rhino HOTAS.[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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If you are watching this from spot view you are most likely just describing the way FSX spot view works. Try watching it from the cockpit or tower view. And I presume you are performing an aileron roll, not a barrel roll. You would expect the nose to drop if you're just applying aileron without flying the manouevre conscientiously.

MarkH

 

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Yes I am actually referring to an aileron roll. The cockpit view is the view that first tipped me off that there was a problem. I have not tried watching it from a tower view. The way it throws off my orientation I will probably crash the airplane when I try it. I guess I could watch it in a replay. I hate it when I have a problem that nobody else has ever had.
i7 8700K CPU @ 4.8 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 3000 memory, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 MB, EVGA RTX 2060 Super XC GPU 8GB GDDR6 Memory, MasterAir MA610P CPU cooler, 1TB PCIe NVMe SSD, 500 GB SSD, 2T HDD, 3 Asus 24" monitors, Saitek X56 Rhino HOTAS.[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Hi BigT,

 

Trying to think outside the box on this one. Could it be that you have enabled the "Yaw damper" on another aircraft and it is somehow still active for every subsequent aircraft (this can certainly slow your aircraft response in any rolling situation), just like when enabling the fuel pumps can leave pumps still switched on in another selected aircraft (ie; the "Maule"). Might I suggest you select an aircraft which has Yaw damper, switch it off, then select one of your problem aircraft and try that roll once again. You could also adjust the null zones for your Ailerons Elevators & Rudder in FSX Control settings Full right sliders will see the control surfaces more responsive (defaults can be a little laggy).

 

If my suggestion produces no gains in roll response, could you take a short video using ShadowPlay / upload video of your problem from VC view, maybe we can see exactly where things are going wonky, instruments and partial view out the cockpit screen will show enough to gauge your attitude angle and speed.

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Yes I am actually referring to an aileron roll.

OK, this complicates things a bit. Your problem may be expectations of one thing while doing another. Perhaps you are doing an aileron roll while expecting the results of a slow roll.

 

A barrel roll looks as if you are going around the inside of a big barrel, in a sort of horizontal spiral. It's not much more than adding aileron and back pressure together to slide around that barrel.

 

An aileron roll will leave you with an arcing path, starting with the nose slightly up (quite a bit up on some light aircraft, such as a Citabria), then arcing until the nose is pointing a bit down as you complete the roll. Other than starting with nose up a little, it's mostly just add aileron.

 

A slow roll is more complex, and is the only one that might leave you with the aircraft's path more or less in a straight line, though such aircraft as the Citabria don't really have enough power/speed to do this without also doing somewhat of an arc. The slow roll is the one that starts out with aileron and rudder then, at 90º has the opposite rudder to hold the nose up, then at 180º has forward stick ("down" elevator) with rudder back to neutral, then at 270º has top rudder. Note that this is not a complete description, but should give you the idea.

 

So which one of these are you expecting to see? It appears that you are doing this from an external view (did you try the flyby view?) and may be getting caught by some of the weirdness of FS view changes. You might also try doing this from inside the cockpit.

 

Also, have you ever read any instruction on how a roll should be done? That might help you, too. The links on roll-type above take you to Wikipedia where you can learn more.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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A video is needed to understand the mechanics of this.

 

There is misunderstanding and misinterpretation in this thread, and it's the only way we can sort out what is actually happening.

 

OK, I recorded a video using OBS. While it was recording and in the play back of the video the roll is perfectly smooth as I expect it to be. So making a video using OBS isn't going to help us any. I am going to keep experimenting. If I use the FSX Instant Replay to view the roll it shows the same problem as what's happening on my screen. Why would using the OBS make everything look normal?

Edited by BigT-65
i7 8700K CPU @ 4.8 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 3000 memory, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 MB, EVGA RTX 2060 Super XC GPU 8GB GDDR6 Memory, MasterAir MA610P CPU cooler, 1TB PCIe NVMe SSD, 500 GB SSD, 2T HDD, 3 Asus 24" monitors, Saitek X56 Rhino HOTAS.[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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After much inquiry, research and testing I have come to the conclusion that it is not the roll causing the problem but the inability to fly in the inverted position. While watching the roll in the slowest sim rate I can see that it is going all the way through the roll but when the plane gets to the inverted position it flips out of that position rapidly and then continues to roll over. It is still strange to me why while recording with OBS everything looks normal including flying inverted and also looks normal in the replay of the OBS recording. But this is not true while watching the FSX instant replay video. And I again disconnected the X56 flight system and reconnected the X52 and everything is fine after that. It has to be something with the X56 stick. And I have re-calibrated it using every calibration method I could find. And as I said before it is not this particular X56 stick because I have another one that does the same thing.
i7 8700K CPU @ 4.8 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 3000 memory, Gigabyte Aorus Z370 MB, EVGA RTX 2060 Super XC GPU 8GB GDDR6 Memory, MasterAir MA610P CPU cooler, 1TB PCIe NVMe SSD, 500 GB SSD, 2T HDD, 3 Asus 24" monitors, Saitek X56 Rhino HOTAS.[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Where is the video?

 

I am utterly confused at the inadequate definitions of flight characteristics and still wait to see exactly what is being described...

 

Post it to Youtube or Vimeo. Cover external view and a wide view from the VC, so we can see the VC controller motion.

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