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Thread: Should they have grounded the Boeing 737 MAX 8?

  1. #11
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    Thanks for all your opinions guys! I also thought it was the right decision.
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    let alone how to disable it, why would it even cross their minds?
    Those who dealt successfully with the problem recognized that it was runaway trim, not needing the extra information, though it most certainly SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED. Runaway trim has been in the emergency procedures and training for a lot of years. That's why I stated things the way I did. Had that not been a viable solution, then grounding until it was fixed would be mandatory.

    Larry N.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    Those who dealt successfully with the problem recognized that it was runaway trim, not needing the extra information, though it most certainly SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED. Runaway trim has been in the emergency procedures and training for a lot of years. That's why I stated things the way I did. Had that not been a viable solution, then grounding until it was fixed would be mandatory.
    True, Boeing still should've provided the info on how to disable the MCAS system if it faults.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    Those who dealt successfully with the problem recognized that it was runaway trim, not needing the extra information, though it most certainly SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED. Runaway trim has been in the emergency procedures and training for a lot of years. That's why I stated things the way I did. Had that not been a viable solution, then grounding until it was fixed would be mandatory.
    Do you have a link to the cases that were successfully handled? The other MAX incidents I have seen reported weren't the same problem.

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    This quote from the AOPA article:

    Pilots with 737 experience and other aviation experts told AOPA that the stabilizer trim system can be shut off with switches mounted between the pilots that either can easily reach. It appears U.S. flight crews have done exactly that when responding to similar system problems on the same jets.

    Take a look at this theatlantic.com article. Not quite a quarter of the way down they list two ASRS reports from pilots who successfully dealt with the MCAS, and several more with the 737 MAX in other areas. They also provide a link to the ASRS for searching.

    You might like this Air Facts article too.

    And here's another quote, this from a different AOPA article:

    What must be acknowledged in the ongoing MAX 8 accident investigations and follow-on analysis of Boeing and FAA conduct, is that U.S. air carriers have flown more than 50,000 flights and logged more than 100,000 hours in the Boeing MAX 8 without a mishap. If there is a problem with the MAX 8’s MCAS, it's unlikely that U.S. carriers have just been lucky not to experience it. More likely, an anomaly occurred, was handled by experienced, well-trained aircrew, and then addressed by highly qualified maintenance technicians on the ground.

    l

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    This quote from the AOPA article:

    Pilots with 737 experience and other aviation experts told AOPA that the stabilizer trim system can be shut off with switches mounted between the pilots that either can easily reach. It appears U.S. flight crews have done exactly that when responding to similar system problems on the same jets.

    Take a look at this theatlantic.com article. Not quite a quarter of the way down they list two ASRS reports from pilots who successfully dealt with the MCAS, and several more with the 737 MAX in other areas. They also provide a link to the ASRS for searching.

    You might like this Air Facts article too.

    And here's another quote, this from a different AOPA article:

    What must be acknowledged in the ongoing MAX 8 accident investigations and follow-on analysis of Boeing and FAA conduct, is that U.S. air carriers have flown more than 50,000 flights and logged more than 100,000 hours in the Boeing MAX 8 without a mishap. If there is a problem with the MAX 8’s MCAS, it's unlikely that U.S. carriers have just been lucky not to experience it. More likely, an anomaly occurred, was handled by experienced, well-trained aircrew, and then addressed by highly qualified maintenance technicians on the ground.

    l
    Interesting, very interesting, everybody should read this.
    I've been an experienced FSX player for two years now, and an enthusiast forever. Be sure to check out my blog on here, I blog daily about everything aviation!
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    This quote from the AOPA article:
    Pilots with 737 experience and other aviation experts told AOPA that the stabilizer trim system can be shut off with switches mounted between the pilots that either can easily reach. It appears U.S. flight crews have done exactly that when responding to similar system problems on the same jets.

    Take a look at this theatlantic.com article. Not quite a quarter of the way down they list two ASRS reports from pilots who successfully dealt with the MCAS, and several more with the 737 MAX in other areas. They also provide a link to the ASRS for searching.
    I've seen those incidents reported as well. However, if you read them, they aren't MCAS issues, though the MCAS system is mentioned in the report. Both appear to be autopilot problems that were corrected by disabling the autopilot. The MCAS itself is only active when hand flying the plane with flaps up. So, while yes, there have been a lot of MAX flights elsewhere, I still haven't seen an incident reported that matches the two crashes. I suspect part of it may be due to more Western airlines having purchased the optional safety features that would have flagged erroneous AoA sensor data that neither the LionAir nor Ethiopian aircraft had. Maybe the malfunctioning sensors were caught and replaced before they could cause a serious problem?

  8. Default

    One thing that can be a factor is that flight crews overseas versus here in the U.S don't need 1,500 hours of flying time to fly commercial. I've heard it's no more than 200 hours. Now that's nuts.

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    Airlines have now started cancelling orders for the 737 Max, the first is Garuda Indonesia which has cancelled an order worth $4.9 billion.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post

    # There are indications out there of poor training in some (nowhere near all) countries, such as the Asiana flight short of the runway a few years back (a number of others, too). Whether it's an individual pilot thing or something missing in the training for each of the involved airlines is something I don't know.

    % The information in the post is tentative, pending further info, and is probably more speculative than it should be, so take it ALL with a grain of salt (perhaps half a shaker full?).
    Knowing that the people on whom you depend, or the people whom you support, who are "experts", apparently, are the ones who came up with the "official cause" of TWA flt. 800, as well as John Kennedy Jr.'s Saratoga II incident, I would say that you need a couple of bags of salt. At least.

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