Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 58

Thread: Flight gear 18.3.2 initial set up

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Up in the sky
    Posts
    17

    Default

    And that you can see the cowling and see the wingtips on a C150L is no surprise:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C150L.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	144.5 KB 
ID:	208487

  2. Default

    It feels a bit silly, but I've gone through the motions to adjust the seat such that I can see the cowl - of course this is possible within a second or so if I want it (in view mode, right-click mouse, drag upward):

    The 182S



    And the 172:



    In the 172, I also see wingtips when I look towards the side form the same point, in the 182S I do not, I'd have to move lower again. Again, I've never been in a real 182S (or 172 for that matter) so I can't tell whether one should or not, but I can state confidently that it's a non-issue to adjust the view to what you expect to see.

  3. Default

    Hi Thorsten.
    I am not sure we are talking / using the same version? If you look at the panel above the Radio stack yours has a different Audio panel and the Compass.
    When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.
    A couple of more things that I want to point out is the Performance at 2000 MSL 24/24. standard day (29.92, 15C, SL), the one I have shows a cursing speed IAS of about 120 kt, in the real 182 I get around 130
    Also the Altimeter at KSNA 29.92 shows around - 370 ft and it should be around 60, it would appear that it is defaulting to something other than Standard but it is being set to standard?
    Thanks for looking at this and I can tell you that when I say that these views are Not trivial, I know what I am talking about and if you start flying for real and your instructor does not point some of these things out to you, you have the wrong instructor and likely you will never really learn / know how to fly VFR / ground reference flight.
    I got my version from github and it's file c-182-master.zip file size 72.8 MB (76,395, 873 bytes) there is another one somewhat smaller in size, from FG acft site? I will try that next.
    I have a PC, Win 7 Pro 64, Intel, 4.GHz,1080 GTX, 4K resolution.
    When I try to go from 2D to 3D using the "c" key I see no difference in the screen or configuration, what system are you using / testing?
    Thanks again for trying to look at some of these issues, my hope is that this discussion clarifies some of these points for others also.
    Here is some info from README and AUTHORS
    I just tested the other version and it behaves the same, see the README Not Used below. I am getting more confused by the minute.

    I have this
    README File:
    Cessna 182S
    ===========

    A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.



    For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

    ---

    This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

    * HHS81 (HHS): 3D model, fdm, programming, textures, bug tracking, testing

    * Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

    * onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

    * Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

    * Ron Jensen (jentron)

    * Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

    * Stuart Buchanan

    * David Megginson


    AUTHORS
    This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

    * Heiko Schulz (hhs81): 3D model, fdm, textures, bug tracking, testing
    Email: [email protected]

    * Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing
    Email: [email protected]

    * Benedikt Hallinger (benih): Startup States, Davtron 803, Audio Panel, Fuel system, Oil management, external heating, Custom registration, bug tracking and fixes, testing and more

    * onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

    * Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

    * Ron Jensen (jentron)

    * Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

    * Stuart Buchanan

    * David Megginson

    Smaller- Not used
    README file
    Cessna 182S
    ===========

    A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.

    Further information can be read in [Documentation.md](Documentation.md).

    Development thread: http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28475
    FG Wiki page: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Cessna_182S

    ![c182s Climb](http://abload.de/img/fgfs-screen-006boeqb.jpg)
    ![c182s cockpit](https://abload.de/img/fgfs-screen-002tpq3h.jpg)
    ![c182s Tail View](http://s11.postimg.org/eot4duv37/image.jpg)
    ![c182s Wing View](http://s11.postimg.org/b9104axur/image.jpg)
    ![c182s Takeoff](http://s11.postimg.org/x6xgy3cv7/image.jpg)


    For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

    ---

    This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

    * HHS81 (HHS): 3D model, fdm, programming, textures, bug tracking, testing

    * Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

    * onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

    * Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

    * Ron Jensen (jentron)

    * Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

    * Stuart Buchanan

    * David Megginson

    Smaller- Not used
    README file
    Cessna 182S
    ===========

    A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.

    Further information can be read in [Documentation.md](Documentation.md).

    Development thread: http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28475
    FG Wiki page: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Cessna_182S

    ![c182s Climb](http://abload.de/img/fgfs-screen-006boeqb.jpg)
    ![c182s cockpit](https://abload.de/img/fgfs-screen-002tpq3h.jpg)
    ![c182s Tail View](http://s11.postimg.org/eot4duv37/image.jpg)
    ![c182s Wing View](http://s11.postimg.org/b9104axur/image.jpg)
    ![c182s Takeoff](http://s11.postimg.org/x6xgy3cv7/image.jpg)


    For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

    ---

    This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

    * HHS81 (HHS): 3D model, fdm, programming, textures, bug tracking, testing

    * Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

    * onox: advice, nasal-scripts, testing

    * Wayne Bragg (wlbragg): rain effect, advice

    * Ron Jensen (jentron)

    * Daniel Dubreuil (Dany93)

    * Stuart Buchanan

    * David Megginson
    Last edited by flytv1; 03-14-2019 at 04:18 PM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Up in the sky
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flytv1 View Post
    When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.

    You are probably doing something wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by flytv1 View Post
    A couple of more things that I want to point out is the Performance at 2000 MSL 24/24. standard day (29.92, 15C, SL), the one I have shows a cursing speed IAS of about 120 kt, in the real 182 I get around 130

    We are simulating the Cessna 182 S version from 1996. The flightmanual clearly states for this 131 KTAS at MTOW. Did you took in account the recommended lean mixture? Did you flew this with MTOW?
    I get exactly the numbers given in the Cessna 182 S POH: The speeds in the left top part of the images is non-corrected. The one on the instrument is corrected.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C182SPOH_cp.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	131.5 KB 
ID:	208498
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C182S_Cruise.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	255.7 KB 
ID:	208499

    Quote Originally Posted by flytv1 View Post
    Also the Altimeter at KSNA 29.92 shows around - 370 ft and it should be around 60, it would appear that it is defaulting to something other than Standard but it is being set to standard?
    I get the correct value:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	KSNA.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	213.2 KB 
ID:	208500


    Btw.: Did you missed the point that I am the author of the Cessna 182 S?
    Last edited by HHS; 03-14-2019 at 05:10 PM. Reason: added important information

  5. Default

    Hi HHS.
    We must be talking about 2 different sims.
    I found the issue with the Altimeter, apparently the default state is high pressure and there is no Standard day selection, you have to set things manually to get 29.92 and 60ft.
    The Views and Performance still eludes me, see pic. what you have shown is acceptable, I fly 1978 regularly and I get around 130 KIAS at 24/22 on a Standard day
    Can I get access to the exact files that you guys have? I also set the Winds to 0 (zero) just to make sure it would not affect the readings.
    What OS System are you guys testing on?
    Yes, I did see your name associated with the 182, it's exactly the reason I am trying to help you with the situation that I encounter. I can see that you guys are trying and I appreciate it, but somehow it does not get the expected / real life as I know it from many years of experience, results.
    A couple of things that I suggest, Start out with a Basic joystick, have a Standard day setting to default to, and standardize on the Key commands, otherwise I can guarantee you you will not have many users that have the patience, or knowledge , to get this sim started and stop using it after a few minutes.
    I cannot recall how far back I have to go, to remember a more time consuming process to set up a flight simulator.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FG-Fpwr2K.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	85.9 KB 
ID:	208501
    Last edited by flytv1; 03-14-2019 at 06:33 PM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Up in the sky
    Posts
    17

    Default

    With cowl flaps closed:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C182S_Fast.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	221.1 KB 
ID:	208502

    With cowl flaps open I get the values you show. But I`m pretty sure you didn`t flew full power with full fuel flow in real life all the time, I don`t think the engine likes that....There is a reason Cessna put those markings and no good pilot will fly beyond the limits if not needed.

    There is not something like default state of weather. You can change it as you like it, change the weather to your own METAR settings etc, etc, etc....

    And the Cessna 182S 1996 differs a lot from the Cessna 182 from 1978 when I compare the cruise perfomance C182S <--> C182Q(1978)


    Anyway, none of your postings or information is or was helpful for me. None of your provided information can be translated into the flight dynamics model of the Cessna 182S - that´s the one we simulate, not any other version.
    Instead I feel a quite arrogant and ignorant tone from your side here. You repeated explaining at least two time basic flying technics to a certified glider pilot (Thorsten Renk). You ignored the inputs from Thorsten and me.

    FlightGear exists since more than 20years, we have grown a lot since then. There are a lot private and professional pilot using and developing FlightGear, there are flight schools using FlightGear and there are universities using FlightGear for their research and educational purposes and of course there are all those armchair aces. So there are more than enough users.

    They not only have the patience to get to used to, they are even happy that FlightGear is that highly customizable as it is, and that`s the strength of this simulator. We support any input device, from mouse to joystick, yoke, pedals or anything else - for good reason. This needs some learning curve from the user, and we are aware of that many people prefer more easy to-use arcarde style flight sims. Since we don`t aim for those people, it is o.k. for us.

    This project FlightGear and all the Addons are made in our spare time, without any payment - it is completely free to everyone: We don`t owe you anything.
    So if it is not your simulator- remove it and pay for another one.

    Or, in the spirit of Flightgear: If you don`t like it - create your own better Cessna 182.

    Since my time is limited I will stop this discussion now. I`m wasting my time here. I am out.
    Last edited by HHS; 03-14-2019 at 07:50 PM. Reason: added "all the time"

  7. Default

    Hi HHS.
    It is my hope that you've learned something, if did not it's not because I did not try, my intention was to help and educate.

    About the Cowl flaps, since you brought them up, I was not going to mention it, for other people's interest that want to know and learn, at the most you get from Cowl flaps open is a drop of about 4-5kts in flight.
    Yes, most of the time the fuel tanks are full, but mostly only 2 people aboard.
    Yest I also know that the 96 vs 78 are different, but at full power they are better performing.
    There are many other things about the Flight dynamics that I do not want to bring up, because I do not consider them sufficiently important that are not correct, but I think the most glaring is to cruise performance and the cockpit views.
    I do hope that you consider my advice for what was intended, and yes I know that FG was around for 20 years, I've been using simulators long before that, many times I used / tried it before and I cannot recall when I had so much trouble trying to get it to work.

    Your effort is appreciated, and your advice of doing my own is something I was considering, I've done that in other sims that I used, but I am not sure that the way the sim is set up now is something that would result in a useful project. Too many things are not organized and difficult to set up.

    I will continue to try to help but it is impossible if someone is not Ready to learn which is one of the Laws of learning.
    Last edited by flytv1; 03-14-2019 at 10:17 PM.

  8. Default

    When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.
    Well, that is weird (and finally explains why you're unhappy with the situation).

    What happens if you do it manually?

    * Open Debug -> Property browser
    * Go into /sim/current-view/

    At the bottom will be x-offset-m, y-offset-m, z-offset-m which are the view coordinates relative to the 3d mesh origin - you can click on any of them and alter their value. Usually y is up in 3d space, so what happens if you just keep increasing y-offset-m a bit?

    ***

    My version of the 182S might be slightly different since I got it at some point from HHS for testing purposes, I believe it is a bit older than what you have, but the 3d mesh should be pretty much the same, so for the question we're discussing it should not matter.

    ***

    The distinction between 2d and 3d panels is at least a decade old and basically unsupported - initially FG had 2d panels, then the full 3d cockpits were phased in and at that time it was assumed to be a good idea to have it optional, now hardly any craft has 2d panels any more, so usually whatever you select you see the full 3d cockpit.

  9. Default

    Hi Thorsten.
    Thank you for the feedback.
    I will try what you suggested and see the results.
    I noticed that the the default 172 may only have 2D panel? If I switch to 3D it give me just the forward runway view without an instrument panel.
    What OS / computer are you using? I have a Win 7 Pro 64 bit, would that affect things?

    The Cruise performance in the 182 is related, at least in part, to the excessive drag introduced by the Cowl flaps, in a real life 182 there is hardly any effect on airspeed less that45kts, in the FG 182 looks like it's about 20kt.
    Thanks again for your effort in trying to help, as time goes on I will try to compile some information about how to set things up, based on my experience, that will hopefully help others.

    At some point I may give creating a model a try, it's been a long time since I built one for FS9, a good free C182RG seems to be missing from all the simulators available presently and that is one acft that is sufficiently complex for most GA pilots to learn to fly.

    In trying to implement Vocals speech commands withe the 182, and using the Map.pfd for keyboard commands I was only able to get about 12 out of 70 I tried, and in some cases I had to change the key assignment in the FG. I need to learn how to use the Custom to assign Keyboard commands.
    Here are some of the phrases that I was able to get to work, looks like this site scrambles the formatting but you may be able to get an idea.

    Command Key XP Answer Key FG
    Flaps up D1 Flaps up 2 -New FG OK
    Flaps down D2 Flaps down 2 Ctrl -New FG OK
    Brakes toggle B Brakes toggle Off / ON b Shft OK
    Toggle speed brakes NA Speed brakes toggled B Ctrl OK
    Cycle views NA Cycle views V OK
    Cockpit View NA Cockpit V Ctrl OK
    Exit Simulator Shft F4 Exit (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) ESC FG OK
    Testing KeyCode Speech is On sir (TEST) KeyCode OK
    Stop listening Control Key Toggle listening (Voice Stop Listen) Control Use KB for On /Off

    You can see a complete list of the ones I tried below, FG is in the most right column:
    Commands / Phrases for Vocals Speech control app used in XP11.
    To use: Place "win.xpl"(extplane.zip), and "Vocals.exe" (https://www.alth.fr/Vocals/index.php) and Run Vocals.exe, "profiles_xml.vc" included here, in a newly created directory ...X-Plane 11\Resources\plugins\ExtPlane\Vocals, and Start XP11 in windows mode. Make changes to the keys NEW and CHANGE keys listed below, Start Vocals with Run as Administrator, and select XP11 profile, and Application X-System. You can now go back to XP11 and use Full screen.
    Some versions of XPlane have it already you can try it and if it works you do not need to add it.
    For Flight Gear (FG) you do not need anything, just start FG in window mode, and Start Vocals.
    NP-Numeric KP, FG-Flight Gear, XP-XPlane; Stop listening- must be enabled with KB Ctrl key
    Note: Dx is Decimal number 1.. OemOpenBrackets IS [ etc. NG =Tested from KBoard Jstic only in c182 NG

    Command Key XP Answer Key FG
    Flaps up D1 Flaps up 2 -New FG OK
    Flaps down D2 Flaps down 2 Ctrl -New FG OK
    Brakes toggle B Brakes toggle Off / ON b Shft OK
    Landing gear down D Gear down g Sft
    Positive rate gear up U Gear up g
    Map toggle M Map toggle NOT IN FG NA
    Mixture Off F7 Mixture Off SKIP n (finer) 4x NG
    Mixture Full F8 Mixture Full m (richer) 4x NG
    Carb heat off F9 Carb heat off $ Sft 4? Toggle NG
    Carb heat on F10 Carb heat on SKIP NA???
    Trim nose down OemOpenBrackets Nose down PG7 Dec Elev? NG
    Trim nose down a lot OemOpenBrackets Nose down a lot (4x) NP 7 4x NG from KB??
    Trim nose up Sft OemOpenBrackets nose up (NEW KEY XP11) NP 1 Inc elev? NG
    Trim nose up a lot Sft OemOpenBrackets nose up a lot (4x) (NEW KEY XP11) NP 1 4x NG
    Reverse trust toggle Sft OemBackslash Reverse trust m Sft Enga revr
    Decrease spoilers NA Decrease spoilers j
    Increase spoilers NA Increase spoilers k
    Toggle spoilers NA Spoilers toggled k Ctrl
    Toggle speed brakes NA Speed brakes toggled B Ctrl OK
    Auto start engine Sft x Engine Started s
    Cowl flaps toggle NA Cowl flaps toggle D NG from KB??
    Cowl flaps open Ctrl c x20 Cowl flaps partially open (Add in XP) NA
    Cowl flaps closed Ctrl o x20 Cowl flaps partially open (Add in XP) NA
    G 1000 approach toggle SHFT O Approach toggled (NEW KEY XP11) NA
    Autopilot toggle SHFT G Autopilot toggle (NEW KEY XP11) W Ctrl? Wing Lelr NG
    Auto pilot approach toggle CTRL A A. Pee Approach toggled G Ctrl
    Autopilot heading hold toggle SHFT A Heading hold toggle H Ctrl NG
    Auto pilot altitude hold SFT i Altitude hold a Ctrl ALT Lock NG
    Flight director toggle SFT J Flight director toggle NA

    3 D cockpit SFT D9 3 D On c
    Move head up UP Head up F6 Sft Not Wokng from KB??
    Move head back Oemcomma 2X Head back NA
    Move head forward OemPeriod 2X Head forward NA
    Move head down SFT DOWN Eye point down F5 Sft NG from KB??
    Move head right Sft Right Move right NA
    Move head down Sft Left Move left NA
    Look ahead W Default view (DEFAULT) 8 NP Sft
    Forward view NumPad1 Num pad 1 (View Crtl NumP1) V Ctrl Init viewp NG KB
    Look up SFT R Look up fast F6 Sft Scrl Dwn NG KB
    Look down SFT F Look down fast NA
    Look left SFT Q 4X Look left (90DEG.) 4 NP Sft OK
    Look right SFT E 4X Look right (90DEG.) 6 NP Sft OK
    Increase ground speed SFT T Increase ground speed NA
    Increase ground speed a lot SFT T 2X Increase ground speed a lot NA
    Outside view D8 Outside view NA
    Full screen toggle Ctrl L Screen toggle (NEW KEY XP11) NA
    Cycle views NA Cycle views V OK
    Cockpit View NA Cockpit V Ctrl OK
    Zulu time backwards K 4X Time backwards NA
    Zulu time forward L 3X Time forward NA
    Zulu time backwards a lot SFT K Time backwards NA
    Zulu time forward SFT L Time forward NA

    Swap Nav 1 CTRL D9 Naav1 swap
    Swap Nav 2 CTRL D0 Naav 2 swap NA
    Swap Com 1 OemMinus Com 1 swap NA
    Swap Com 2 CTRL 0 Swap com 2 (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) NA

    Pause P Pause p
    Exit Simulator Shft F4 Exit (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) ESC FG OK
    Testing KeyCode Speech is On sir (TEST) KeyCode OK
    Stop listening Control Key Toggle listening (Voice Stop Listen) Control Use KB for On /Off

    It looks like the text gets scrambled, I posted an image of the text, with the Header below:
    Commands / Phrases for Vocals Speech control app used in XP11.
    To use: Place "win.xpl"(extplane.zip), and "Vocals.exe" (https://www.alth.fr/Vocals/index.php) and Run Vocals.exe, "profiles_xml.vc" included here, in a newly created directory ...X-Plane 11\Resources\plugins\ExtPlane\Vocals, and Start XP11 in windows mode. Make changes to the keys NEW and CHANGE keys listed below, Start Vocals with Run as Administrator, and select XP11 profile, and Application X-System. You can now go back to XP11 and use Full screen.
    Some versions of XPlane have it already you can try it and if it works you do not need to add it.
    For Flight Gear (FG) you do not need anything, just start FG in window mode, and Start Vocals.
    NP-Numeric KP, FG-Flight Gear, XP-XPlane; Stop listening- must be enabled with KB Ctrl key
    Note: Dx is Decimal number 1.. OemOpenBrackets IS [ etc. NG =Tested from KBoard Jstic only in c182 NG

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	VoclCmds.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	261.3 KB 
ID:	208516

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Up in the sky
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Sorry, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by flytv1 View Post

    I will continue to try to help but it is impossible if someone is not Ready to learn which is one of the Laws of learning.
    Another needless, disrespectful and arrogant statement from you. Are you able to apologize?

    I`m a teacher, and my academic background and hands-on experience in school tells me that the most important factor of learning success is the teacher himself.

    When the teacher acts likes you, and let the students search for the "easter egg" there won`t be hardly any learning success, nor any motivation to do so. That`s exactly what you did by NOT providing the needed information ("I was not going to mention it,..."), and disregarding any input from the developer.

    If you really want to help - and sorry again, it doesn`t look like that for me - You instead should learn how to provide meaningful bug reports and learn how to act on an equal footing.

    Helpful (and common practice in software developement) would have been:
    "The aircraft is flying only with 110KIAS with cowl flaps full open in horizontal cruise with following weight, power settings and weather datas. Instead it should be about 130KIAS."

    With this input I could have reproduce this easily, would have known immediately where to look in the fdm-code and would already have changed the related coefficients.

    When I move / scroll with the Right Mouse the whole forward view tilts, as if the Cpit and outside view are glued together, it doesn't not just move my head up with respect to the panel.
    As I already said, you doing it wrong, as I can easily reproduce it by moving/ scrolling the with right mouse button pressed. That`s not a bug, it is not a feature, it just not the right action.

    So Again, To shift the view: Go into mouse view mode- press and hold middle mouse button while moving/scrolling the mouse.

    There is by the way another, easy method: Menubar (F10-key) --> View --> Adjust View Position.
    Unfortunately the new view position isn`t saved. So much as I know by no aircraft in FGFS yet.
    Last edited by HHS; 03-15-2019 at 04:22 PM.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-20-2017, 04:13 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-24-2009, 05:21 PM
  3. Gear up/Gear down assignments possible?
    By zfehr in forum FS2004
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-01-2003, 02:05 PM
  4. DF737 Gear Up Gear/Down & Thrust Reverser Sounds
    By Messenger in forum DreamFleet General Discussion Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-24-2002, 11:22 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-22-2002, 06:36 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •