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Thread: Flight gear 18.3.2 initial set up

  1. Default

    Hi Thorsten.
    Thank you for your help.
    I tried your suggestion Open Debug -> Browse internal property
    Go into /sim/current-view/
    and ended with these values y-o m 0.71 x o m -0.1 z o m 1.15, which give me a decent forward view, but it also modifies the Right Left wing tip view, move the head way up. See pic of forward view. If I move it higher top of the instruments get covered.
    There is also the problem of these setting not being retained / persistent, they change every time I restart FG.
    This would imply that more changes, to the basic model, would need to be change.
    I will look into modifying the Drag coefficient for the Cowl flaps and see what I can achieve.
    @ HHS OK, I do not have a middle button, I have a mouse with a wheel I will try that, thanks for the input.

    PS
    OK, I just tried the other Mouse, with the wheel as milled button, but I will not work. See the pic with the Mouse settings, I tried all of them but none give me the expected results, by the same token the F!) does not do it either.
    What system are you guys on, sounds like is not Windows?
    My goal is to never touch the Mouse and or the KB and that is what I've been doing for the last 30 yeras, all the sims I used I was able to set them up with Hardware and or Voice control top achieve that.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by flytv1; 03-15-2019 at 06:18 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by flytv1 View Post
    ....
    This would imply that more changes, to the basic model, would need to be change.
    May I kindly ask how long ago it has been that you sat in a Cessna 182?
    And may I kindly ask if You ever have sit in a Cessna 182 S/T model with steam gauges?

    I`m asking, because your shown values insists, that you would sit 10cm/4inch left from the center line in the real aircraft. That can`t be correct.

    I also have here the 3d-model against the drawing from the POH, both scaled to correct dimensions.
    Beside the wrong sized wheel fairing (seems I forgot it to resize), you can see that everything is correct regarding the cockpit.
    So I`m still pretty sure that your perception from your Cessna 182 1978 model can`t be applied to the Cessna 182 1996+ models.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by flytv1 View Post
    What system are you guys on, sounds like is not Windows?
    Windows 10.

  3. Default

    Hi HHS.
    I flew the 78 this past Monday and it's been a while, over 2 months since I've flown in a 2001.
    I will likely be going again Tomorrow, Saturday but it will be in a Flight Design CTLSi, where by the way you can Not see the cowl from a siting position, which makes it very difficult to learn to land in, and maybe on Sunday in the 182.
    What you lack in the 3D is the ability to visualize the Head position, Cessnas have fully articulating seats and you can raise / lower the seat where you can easily have the views I mentioned.

    I know, and I understand, that you guys are trying to get things right and that is the reason why I am trying to point out some of the things that you can only see when you are in the real World.
    You are not the only ones that are having that issue, Laminar, MS and others have / had the same problem, in some of the models, and they are payware and claim to be as real as you get. The LR XP11, now has a G1000 where they have a Wind Direction / Velocity indicator that stops showing information as high as 70KIAS in flight, if you have a head wind component of about 15kts, and multiple other flight dynamics issues.
    Your 172 and 182 have a better behavior than their 172 when you get below Power curve, not to mention the over bank, improper behavior during Spins.... and you are the most responsive of them all.
    Again, my intentions are just to be helpful, and for selfish reasons to get a tool that I can use to demonstrate and teach in. I've been doing this for many years and constantly trying to get a better tool.
    I am not much into displaying my personal information on the Net, or any where else for that matter of fact.
    I am not into Heavies, not aspiring to be a super hot shot, I've been flying since 1976 and surviving and fly in Real world every time I can, which is just about every week.
    I can say, with very high level of confidence, that there is No C182RG, from any developers, freeware or payware, that are close enough to demonstrate most of the Commercial maneuvers in.
    The C172RG and the 182RG are still the most popular training tools out there.
    You very likely stand the best chance to create one. There seem to be sufficient parameters in the model to do it, but I do not know enough about the details to say if true.
    Flight dynamics, as they are in real life, are very difficult to duplicate, in particular when you get below the Power curve, around 55 for 172, if you try to look at all / every phase of flight. They vary somewhat from year to year but the main dynamics are very close.
    Keep up the good work.

  4. #44
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    where by the way you can Not see the cowl from a siting position, which makes it very difficult to learn to land in
    Tailwheel time would help you here -- basically you need to learn new reference points, some to the side and using peripheral vision, not just over the nose.

    BTW, I've flown C-182s where the cowling was difficult to see, and some where it was easy to see. Lots of variations, but I could always see the wings for reference.

    Since I've not tried FG for a while, I don't know if it supports TrackIR, but that's a handy gadget to let you look around, move your head fore, aft, up down tilt. Love mine.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  5. Default

    Hi.
    Tailwheel adds another level to the forward view, in many you cannot see the end of the runway until the back wheel comes up, and the only choice you have is to look to side.

    The CTLS is somewhere in between, it has a very short cowls that slopes down and the instrument panel is pushed back making it impossible to see the cowl.

    Some of the older 182 had a lower instrument panel and had a very good forward view, later on they added more instruments and the panel got higher, in the later versions they got higher yet, but being that I always fly the right seat, at least in the last 20 years I will not get in an Cessna 172, 182... unless I adjust the seat to get access to full rudder travel and have the expected view. There were some that the right seat only moves forward and back and if I cannot adjust the seat I always have pillows available where I, or give to others, to adjust position, but I cannot recall having to use any in the 172 or 182. Oddly enough some of the new LSAs like the Jabirus, Spportcruisers.., are very low seated and makes for a very difficult forward view.

    As to the wing tips I do not know of any high wings in the SEL, there are some where the wings are further back, that are different, where you cannot see the wing tips.
    During the beginning of training the top of cowl is very helpful in getting a starting reference point during flare where it works to look down the runway and put the top of cowl with reference to it.

    Where the wing tips become very important is during ground reference maneuvers training, like Turns around a point, 8s on ... but during normal VFR, even in level flight, there is a lot of information that you can derive from the wing tips and cowl.

  6. #46
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by lnuss View Post
    Since I've not tried FG for a while, I don't know if it supports TrackIR, but that's a handy gadget to let you look around, move your head fore, aft, up down tilt. Love mine.
    According to some User it supports. FlightGear also suports FaceTrackNoIR, and that´s what I used now to show that the not-correct simulated head pivot is the cause for a different experience in Sim.

    I engaged FaceTrackNoIR, used the default Cessna 172P, no change to the view settings beside the FOV- and - voila - I got the view above the cowling and when turning the head to the right the underside of the wing inclusive the tip.

    I also tried it on the Cessna 182S, here I could either get the cowling, or the wingtip. But not both.

    Here the video with the Cessna 172P:


    The only thing i don`t like on Headtracking is, that you can`t use your butt-o-meter, so you always drift away, and can`t provide a stable flight....

    Cheers
    HHS

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    And here the Cessna 182S:


    I have set my view a bit forward, otherwise no changes.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHS View Post
    Hi,
    According to some User it supports. FlightGear also suports FaceTrackNoIR, and that´s what I used now to show that the not-correct simulated head pivot is the cause for a different experience in Sim.

    I engaged FaceTrackNoIR, used the default Cessna 172P, no change to the view settings beside the FOV- and - voila - I got the view above the cowling and when turning the head to the right the underside of the wing inclusive the tip.

    I also tried it on the Cessna 182S, here I could either get the cowling, or the wingtip. But not both.
    ...
    The only thing i don`t like on Headtracking is, that you can`t use your butt-o-meter, so you always drift away, and can`t provide a stable flight....

    Cheers
    HHS
    That "butt-o-meter" hasn't worked in any version of FS I've used, TrackIR or not. I think it's related to the room staying still.
    On the TrackIR I have a PAUSE button set on my joystick so that I can lock the view in place when needed, even use the hat switch, etc. to switch viewing direction, then unpause when I'm ready to look around again. In FS/P3D that feature is especially helpful when I go to any view other than the virtual cockpit.

    It's nice to know that FG supports the head movements -- guess I've got to try it again soon (each iteration has been better, with MAJOR improvements since I first saw it a number of years ago. I'm impressed with what I see in the videos as regards the FaceTrackNoIR -- if I'd seen that without your identification of the device, I'd have sworn it was the TrackIR -- Nice!

    The C-172 video looks very much like I've seen in many newer C-182s, while the C_182 video looks a lot like the C-182s I've seen in FS/P3D, in terms of seeing wings/cowling, and having to duck your head occasionally to see the wings.

    Larry N.

    As Skylab would say:
    Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

  9. #49
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    Here is a video, where you can see how a pilot ducks, bend forward, turn his head,... to get the right sight.



    Something only possible to simulate with Headtracking....

  10. Default

    and ended with these values y-o m 0.71 x o m -0.1 z o m 1.15, which give me a decent forward view, but it also modifies the Right Left wing tip view, move the head way up. See pic of forward view. If I move it higher top of the instruments get covered.
    So just to make sure, moving the view works, you just can't do it with the mouse for some reason, if you try it with the mouse, something else happens?


    There is also the problem of these setting not being retained / persistent, they change every time I restart FG.
    That isn't a problem because you can easily make it persistent, but since moving the viewpoint is supposed to be a dynamical part of the simulation (like you move your head in reality), hat's the preferred mode of operation I guess and saving user-side custom views has low priority.

    (You'd make it persistent by either editing the aircraft files or writing your own config which you load via commandline)

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