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Thread: I can't get my 747 off the ground on takeoff from Boeing Field, Seattle, WA. Need he

  1. #41
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    Sorry, needed to revise. AT was overlooked in my pre-takeoff roll!!

    Items in green, require your close attention prior to takeoff roll:

    CMD - This I think is your mystery enemy. This button needs to be off, which means unlit!!!!
    ALT HOLD - Needs to be off, which means unlit!
    SPD - Needs to be off, which means unlit!
    AT - Needs to be off, which means unlit!
    FD can be turned on and left on thruout the flight.
    AUTOBRAKES - Needs to be in the RTO position for takeoff
    FLAPS - Need to be set for 10*

    Items in RED require your attention after rotation and climbout has begun:

    GEAR UP!
    CMD - Turn this ON which means it will be lit
    ALT HOLD - Turn this ON which means it will be lit. Vertical speed will also light with turning hold on!
    SPD - Speed needs to be turned on which means lit
    AT - Turn this ON which means it will be lit
    AUTOBRAKES - Needs to be returned to the OFF position

    Sorry, about that, thanks Pat!

    Rick
    Last edited by Downwind66; 01-28-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #42
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    Well, I do believe that ken's head has now officially "spun off of his shoulders"! Ken, is there anyone you can get to help you with your computer, family or friends? You are going to need some of the basic skills to get you through this and other things down the road.

    Like Rick said, it's gonna take practice, practice, and more of it. Hang in there!
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    Emachines T3418 AMD 3400+ processor 2GHZ/256KB L2 Cashe 2Gig Ram 160Gig HDD NVidia GEForce 6100 GPU Running WinXP Home Can't believe it still works! Running FSX Standard with SP1 and SP2

  3. Default

    lets say you are flying along at 10.000 ft at say 240 kts. Altitude level. Autopilot on.
    If you then set a climb (for example to 15.000 at 800 ft/min) the autopilot does the following:
    --it trims the Elevator Trim UP a Little bit. (a little is enough, as yiou are at high speed).
    -the plane starts climbing.
    -when climb rate has reached 800 ft/min the trimming UP stops.
    -Speed starts dropping. (because climbing requires more thrust, and that was not added.). In this situation speed will drop to around 225 kt.
    --the Autothrottle increases thrust automatically.
    -Speed settles back at the original (set) 240 kts again.
    trim goes a little less up (so reduces), becuase at the speed of 240 less trim is needed to keep climbing then at speed 225.




    But now, you are standing still on the runway.
    You set altitude ( lets say 20.000 ft) and vertical speed (lets say 800 ft/min)
    Now if you switch altitude hold and engage Autopilot on, then:
    --there is no speed
    -but the autopilot tries desperately to mnake the plane climb at 800 ft/min.
    -It increases the trim
    but there is no speed, so the plane does not climb.
    --it increases the trim more.
    there is still no speed, so the plane does not climb.
    ---so it increases the Elevator Trim even more, all the way to maximum trim up.
    And there is still no speed, so still the plane does not climb.

    Now you start increasing speed. But, you are trying to take off now with Elevator Trim all the way up!!!
    And that means your plane will start to rotate (nose up) at 100 or so knots.
    That's not enough speed to fly. ---> result is a tailstrike.

    ---------------------------------------------
    Correct way to do this.
    DO NOT ENGAGE AUTOPILOT
    Set altitude (lets say 20.000 ft)
    Set vertical speed (let's say 800 ft/min)
    Set runway heading (lets say 090 degrees for RW09 )
    STILL DO NOT ENGAGE AUTOPILOT
    Set airspeed you want after takeoff. (let's say 155 Kt for a full flaps takeoff in the default 737_800)
    DO NOT ENGAGE AUOTHROTTLE or AUTOPILOT
    Set some elevator trim manually, but not too much. (12 clicks up in fully loaded 737. A little less, around 6 to 8 clicks in a Lightweight 737 with little fuel on board.

    Take off. Manually.
    Increase thrust and keeep the plane on the runway.
    Rotate (nose up) by gently pulling back on the joystick.
    Climb to at least 1000 ft. Then add or reduce elevator trim so the plane flies steady without having to pull on the joystick.

    Flying steady? Ok. Now engage Autopilot and Autothrottle.

    -------
    Never engage Autopliot or Autothrottle on the ground.
    Last edited by il88pp; 01-28-2019 at 09:26 AM.

  4. Default

    Wowee!!!... It has been my experience (or so I thought) that the CMD had to be ON in order to get the plane rolling. Thank you so very much for that major assist. One down, (who knows how many) left to go.

    Like I may have said, I am still a very inexperienced FS X learning simmer, and I am finding out that what may work on one airplane may not work on another.


    Got up to 225 KIAS, but still could not leave ground, and crashed into structures beyond end of runway.. Definitely not good.


    Tried again... can't explain what happened, but plane left ground at 225, and nose up to at least 30 degrees. Engine gauges went red at 75 KIAS Still not ideal. Oh, well, if it isn't one thing, it's another. But I really would like to get competent at FS X.

    At my life stage it's really the closest I will ever come to 'real-world' piloting.
    Last edited by KrayCott AirCo; 01-28-2019 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Update after most recent 'flight' test.

  5. Default

    Yes, Rick....The Folder opens "Libraries" Documents, Music, Pictures, and Videos

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayCott AirCo View Post
    Wowee!!!... It has been my experience (or so I thought) that the CMD had to be ON in order to get the plane rolling. Thank you so very much for that major assist. One down, (who knows how many) left to go.

    Like I may have said, I am still a very inexperienced FS X learning simmer, and I am finding out that what may work on one airplane may not work on another.
    "ATTA BOY KEN!" Enjoy your flying that "bad boy!"

    Oh, and if you didn't notice, check out post #2 by tiger 1962 (Tim Wright). See his caption at the bottom! He says "The older I get, the better I was.....!" Most of us on here are retired elderly gentlemen! The ones who aren't got some catching up to do!

    Enjoy - Rick

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayCott AirCo View Post
    Wowee!!!... It has been my experience (or so I thought) that the CMD had to be ON in order to get the plane rolling. Thank you so very much for that major assist. One down, (who knows how many) left to go.

    Like I may have said, I am still a very inexperienced FS X learning simmer, and I am finding out that what may work on one airplane may not work on another.


    Got up to 225 KIAS, but still could not leave ground, and crashed into structures beyond end of runway.. Definitely not good.
    Before attempting takeoff, press the Numpad 1 key about 3 or 4 times. This will set the elevator trim for you. Are you trying this with 100% fuel on board? Go to "fuel and payload" before hitting "Fly Now" and adjust each tank according to how far you are flying.

    Recommendation: If you haven't already tried any of the Missions in FSX, these are good for learning some of what you need to know. I highly recommend the "Transitioning to Jets" Mission/Tutorial. You will have a training pilot sitting next to you acting as copilot and giving you instructions on what to do.
    Last edited by mrzippy; 01-28-2019 at 12:28 PM.
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    Emachines T3418 AMD 3400+ processor 2GHZ/256KB L2 Cashe 2Gig Ram 160Gig HDD NVidia GEForce 6100 GPU Running WinXP Home Can't believe it still works! Running FSX Standard with SP1 and SP2

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downwind66 View Post
    Most of us on here are retired elderly gentlemen! The ones who aren't got some catching up to do!

    Enjoy - Rick
    Hey! Speak for yourself I resemble that remark!
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    Emachines T3418 AMD 3400+ processor 2GHZ/256KB L2 Cashe 2Gig Ram 160Gig HDD NVidia GEForce 6100 GPU Running WinXP Home Can't believe it still works! Running FSX Standard with SP1 and SP2

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayCott AirCo View Post
    Wowee!!!... It has been my experience (or so I thought) that the CMD had to be ON in order to get the plane rolling. Thank you so very much for that major assist. One down, (who knows how many) left to go.

    Like I may have said, I am still a very inexperienced FS X learning simmer, and I am finding out that what may work on one airplane may not work on another.


    Got up to 225 KIAS, but still could not leave ground, and crashed into structures beyond end of runway.. Definitely not good.


    Tried again... can't explain what happened, but plane left ground at 225, and nose up to at least 30 degrees. Engine gauges went red at 75 KIAS Still not ideal. Oh, well, if it isn't one thing, it's another. But I really would like to get competent at FS X.

    At my life stage it's really the closest I will ever come to 'real-world' piloting.
    Ken - The plane is not going to leave the ground on it's own. At around 160-175 KIAS, you need to start gently pulling back on the yoke ( I hope you are using a joystick) to give it some encouragement! It will fly, it wants to fly, but it can't think when and how to do it. You have to show it what to do! It should never get to 225 KIAS while still on the asphalt! Now, try that! You're getting close, but close is not going to work when it comes to flying, real world or simming! Have you ever ridden a horse? He knows what he can do, but he needs some direction on what to do and when to do it! Same thing with flying!

    Oh, and forget about those engine gauges going to red at 75 KIAS! That should mean nothing to you at this point!

    I still would like to show you how to post pics, but, you have to show us that what we will see, will look like flying! We don't want to see you barreling down the runway at 225 KIAS, only to crash into structures at the end of a 10,000' runway! Like my daughter used to say in her teens, "POLEEEEEZZZZ!"

    Keep us posted! - Rick
    Last edited by Downwind66; 01-28-2019 at 01:38 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrzippy View Post
    Hey! Speak for yourself I resemble that remark!
    And, yes, Charlie, I spoke for both of us! Sorry, if that is hitting close to home!

    Rick

    Right Uncle Jim, Rupert, peer1, gerard and the list goes on? I love it, knowing I am not alone on this one!

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