Another warbird to play with!

Well, another one added to the hangar! A B-17 which I always wanted. This one has some potential, I would like to find a nicer panel for it, but in the mean time, gives me something to tinker with!

Rick :cool:

Hey Rick, that looks like a real early one ? We need some details here ? And more pics too. :)

Uncle Jim

Hey Rick, that looks like a real early one ? We need some details here ? And more pics too. :)

 

 

Uncle Jim

 

 

Okay, Uncle Jim, here it is. It is in this site's library. Check it out! It is the "D" model, so I guess it would be an earlier model. The 17's with the larger tail sections are "G" models! I'm not an aircraft historian, I just like to fly them!

FSX/P3D v3/v4 Early B17-D Flying Fortress

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Name: b-17d_early_fortress.zip

Size: 23,312,512 Date: 12-18-2018 Downloads: 749

FSX/P3D v3/v4 Early B17-D Flying Fortress. The Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress is a four-engined heavy bomber developed in the 1930s for the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC). The B17 bomber was intended from the outset to attack strategic targets by precision daylight bombing, penetrating deep into enemy territory by flying above the effective range of antiaircraft artillery. Turbo-supercharged radial engines were to give the necessary high-altitude performance, and heavy defensive armament was to provide protection against attacking fighters. FSX/P3D model by A.F. Scrub.

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Rick :cool:

this looks like the one that was heading to Pearl Harbour when it was attacked :P

Huhhhhhhhhhhhh?

Huhhhhhhhhhhhh?

There was a flight of B-17's headed for Pearl Harbour, slated to arrive on Dec. 7, 1941.

A day which shall live in INFAMY!

They heard of The Attack when they requested landing instructions as they approached The Islands. The Flight Lead told them to scatter and land where they could, at outlying airfields around the chain.

They were unarmed, to lighten the planes, so they could make the range they needed to make The Islands, and they were almost out of fuel, so they wanted to get their birds on the ground so the crews could scatter and hide in case enemy planes found them. At least the crews might survive the attack if the planes were located by the enemy, and the crews are the expensive part of a plane.

Besides, a B-17 is a big, easy target, with no armament aboard, whereas an individual crewman is a very small, hard to see target. But a very valuable one.

Hence the advent of the ejection seat. Better to have the weight of the seat(s) aboard the plane, and save a crewman, maybe, than save the weight, and loose a crewman.

And heck, if they had to ditch, because of combat damage or simple fuel starvation, the crew in the liferaft would be a clustered up, easy to destroy target for a Japanese fighter patrol.

Have fun, all!

Pat☺

There was a flight of B-17's headed for Pearl Harbour, slated to arrive on Dec. 7, 1941.

 

A day which shall live in INFAMY!

 

They heard of The Attack when they requested landing instructions as they approached The Islands. The Flight Lead told them to scatter and land where they could, at outlying airfields around the chain.

They were unarmed, to lighten the planes, so they could make the range they needed to make The Islands, and they were almost out of fuel, so they wanted to get their birds on the ground so the crews could scatter and hide in case enemy planes found them. At least the crews might survive the attack if the planes were located by the enemy, and the crews are the expensive part of a plane.

 

Besides, a B-17 is a big, easy target, with no armament aboard, whereas an individual crewman is a very small, hard to see target. But a very valuable one.

 

Hence the advent of the ejection seat. Better to have the weight of the seat(s) aboard the plane, and save a crewman, maybe, than save the weight, and loose a crewman.

 

And heck, if they had to ditch, because of combat damage or simple fuel starvation, the crew in the liferaft would be a clustered up, easy to destroy target for a Japanese fighter patrol.

 

Have fun, all!

Pat☺

Thank you Pat for clarifying. I also heard this story (that a flight of B-17s was on its way in), adding that the primitive radar set operators in Hawaii dismissed the signature of incoming first wave of Japanese attackers as the incoming B-17s.

Khalid

Thank you Pat for clarifying. I also heard this story (that a flight of B-17s was on its way in), adding that the primitive radar set operators in Hawaii dismissed the signature of incoming first wave of Japanese attackers as the incoming B-17s.

 

Khalid

The operators? No. They did their job, and reported the Japanese planes, AND the B-17's. Including range, bearing, and altitude. Exactly as they were supposed to do.

Their officer, in his comfy office back in Pearl, didn't want to hear it. Neither did his superiors, all the way up to the CO, a former ground pounder who knew less than nothing about aircraft operations, and was still fighting the last war. Airplanes were fine...for observation, but everyone knew they couldn't do any REAL damage, especially to a American war-ship.

He was the reason all the American planes, save 2, were all clustered up tight on the flight line, not dispersed, as they SHOULD have been. He handed the Japanese attackers the American aircraft for destruction, on a silver platter. He couldn't have done better if the had BEEN actually working for the Japanese himself. I may be wrong, but I believe he was Court Martialed for it, too...

The Lieutenant assigned to the radar system was more concerned with shutting down for the Sunday, and going out golfing with his superiors. Great political opportunity for him. Low ranking officers need all the political clout they can get to get promotions, after all!

Besides, everybody knew that that radar would get false returns off the waves all the time, the bearing pointers had to be constantly re-aligned etc etc. New tech. Who's going to believe some big box of tubes and wires?

The only flight scheduled to be inbound that morning was the B-17's, so anything else had to be a false return, riiiight, Sergeant?

Yes sir...

The entire situation was a complete comedy of errors, that really wasn't funny at all. From the Japanese Ambassador, being an even slower and worse typist than I am, on down.

Rick, you're quite welcome!

If you can find it anymore, check out the movie Tora, Tora, Tora. It has a lot of excellent, well presented, accurate info about The Attack on Pearl Harbour. Some side stories, granted, but over-all, very well done. My big gripe with it was the large number of SNJ's used to simulate Japanese Zero's, but that was SOP for the era that the movie was created in :D No real Zero's available to make movies WITH back then.

Have fun, everyone!

Pat☺

Dear Pat,

Yes you are right, I stand corrected, forgot the details you mentioned, but you refreshed my memory. I do keep a copy of Tora Tora Tora in my DVD library and quite agree with your evaluation of this great movie. There was one more detail, the radar set was British and this contributed to the dismissal of whatever it is supposed to report. I quite agree about the prevailing ambience of the day that culminated in this tragedy. I thought that after the demonstration done by Billy Mitchell in 1921 in which a ship was sunk by air attack, no one had any more doubts about what damage can be caused by aircraft and what are the odds in such a duel. Surprising that 20 years on, someone of the old school top brass still believed that aircraft cannot damage a warship!

Best wishes.

Khalid

Khalid and Pat - I never knew that, but I do now! Thanks! Rick :cool:

You're welcome Rick the insight provided by Pat is simply amazing. I adore aviation history, and never tire of it. best wishes. Khalid

Surprising that 20 years on, someone of the old school top brass still believed that aircraft cannot damage a warship!

It's a really sad thing, it truly is. The military in general is a very static, conservative organization. They don't like change, and the higher the rank, the more resistant to change they are. That's what I meant by "He was still fighting the last war". As far as the general in charge of Air Ops was concerned, the capabilities of aircraft were still what they were back in WWI, and no amount of facts was going to change his mind. Remember, he was a ground pounder. It was the ARMY Air Corps back then, and so airplanes were to observe, report, and support ground ops, not actually do the real fighting.

Many highers are of that mindset, sadly. You should see how long it took the Navy, in particular, to implement Crew Resource Management. Much longer than it should have, and senior aviation officers still insist on a pretty steep cockpit gradient, instead of utilizing proper communication skills. If there's a junior officer aboard he should sit down, strap in, and shut up. Not ALL senior officers, but many.

Have fun, everyone!

Pat☺

Nice early B-17, didn't install it yet, but now I will :cool::cool::cool:

We can re-stage the event Jan, you fly the B-17, I operate the radar. We are missing one old school CO to dismiss all what we are doing as utter balderdash. Any candidates? :rolleyes:

Radar?? That's a useless pile of tubes and wires. Good for NOTHING! BALDERDASH!!

Besides, it's Sunday. No one flies on Sunday. Hurumph!

Where's my Adjutant! I need more coffee before I go golfing. Call General Jones and Col. Michaelson, make sure they're ready. I don't want to interrupt their brunch, after all...

Did you all pack the planes together on that flight line thingy? I want guards posted all around them to prevent any sabotage. Hurumph!

AD-JU-TANT!! Where is that boy??

Hows that? Would I make a good bad CO?

Believe me, I can ignore you with the best of them :D

Have fun!

Pat☺

Easy Pat!:rolleyes: We only started with Pearl Harbor, we have many more military conflicts yet to talk about before it is "all said and done!" We'd like to keep you around awhile longer! LOL! I think the Klammath Falls snowfall has finally got to you?

Rick :cool:

Okay, the first download was the earlier B-17D, here is the later model, the B-17G. Couple observations of mine; the B-17D takeoff run is acceptable, however, the B-17G model doesn't act like it wants to get off the ground? I still have some tweeking and items to check, it may come around and decide to be a "keeper?" Oh, no signs of props or prop rotations, just a little something that sets off the aircraft, but I guess I can live with that!

Rick :cool:

Keep us posted Rick. I for one could not fly without props. :(

Jim

Easy Pat!:rolleyes: We only started with Pearl Harbor, we have many more military conflicts yet to talk about before it is "all said and done!" We'd like to keep you around awhile longer! LOL! I think the Klammath Falls snowfall has finally got to you?

 

Rick :cool:

Well, all we really have had so far this winter is about 2 inches, which is quite a bit shy of some winters I've seen, but, believe it or not, more than others. Today was our first real snow fall in a while, but it's not going to stick. We've got rain coming, and it'll wash all that we've gotten away. But hey, if it's slow, it'll refill the aquifer properly.

And from what I've seen, "When all is said and done.", generally a lot more gets said than done. :rolleyes: Especially when it comes to higher ranking officers...

Have fun, all! Hurumph! ;) :D

Pat☺

Hows that? Would I make a good bad CO?

You are shortlisted for the role! :pilot: with such zeal against (radar) technology, you'd think he was fighting at Gettysburg, not the last war even hahahahah :cool:

Thanks Larry, it really has turned out to be a "keeper" for me! What was really strange for me, when I found the B-17G model, that was the aircraft I really would have preferred, BUT, couple issues with that! 1) Tailwheel on takeoff, lifts off the runway only a short distance above the runway, when you pull the stick back to rotate, the tailwheel contacts the runway before the climb begins! A little strange, but lets see what else is wrong about this aircraft. 2) No props appear on the 4 engines, and with no props, there is no rotation of them to be seen! 2) You better have "trim up" established and at least 10* flaps for takeoff, as this bird acts like it does not want to fly! 3) Panel that is given with the B-17G leaves a lot to be desired. I copied the panel from the B-17D aircraft over to the B-17G, which solved that issue, But, that still leaves the original 3 issues remaining, that I could not solve! Out of frustration and disappointment, I ended up removing the B-17G from my collection! I went back to the original B-17D download, and it was like going back to a family reunion! The aircraft flies without issues. Yes, I would have preferred a nicer looking panel, but I have made some minor tweeks and I am happy with the panel as it is! A.F. Scrub is the designer and he really did do a nice job with the exterior finish! A nice Olive Drab color with just a hint of shine! Really does look nice in the sunlight!

Yes, the early model B-17D is a "keeper" for me. I think that anyone out there that downloads this aircraft, would be as equally content with this aircraft. Oh well, thanks for commenting Larry! This has turned out to be a lengthy review, which I did not intend to do, but, just wanted to explain the differences in the 2 downloads!

Rick :cool:

Thanks Adam!

Rick :cool: