VOR Questions

Hey Guys n Gals,

 

Newbie here to the world of flying VOR. Rather than just flying around, I have grown up and decided I want to fly to other places and actually know where I am going. In watching a plethora of vor instruction videos, I still cannot figure out how to enter the frequency into my NAV 1 Radio.

 

My first assignment to myself is to go FROM Miami Executive airport 118.90 and fly TO Miami International Airport 118.30

 

After receiving the frequency of 118.30 for the Miami International Airport VOR via skyvector.com, I am trying to enter it into the Nav1 frequency area of Nav 1 Radio. Whats funny is I have not seen anyone in a training video, type in anything more than 117.00 in Nav 1. It simply will not allow me to type in a 118.00 or greater frequency in the NAV1 or even NAV 2 area of either NAV radios. If I select Comm 1 it allows me to do that. However, I need to NAVigate to the 118.30 VOR. Am I doing something wrong?

 

It seems like NAV 1 or Nav 2 frequencies are not allowed to be higher than 117.00

 

I simply want to fly from one vor (airport) to another vor (Airport) 10 miles away. As a test and my first successful VOR flight. Please help me understand this. Thanks in advance

 

Tec

118.3 is a communications frequency. The highest available navigation frequency is 117.95, so that 118.3 is not a navigation (VOR) frequency. It is the Miami Tower frequency. 118.9 is Tamiami Tower (KTMB, Miami Executive). Apparently you misinterpreted what you were reading. Neither of those fields has a VOR on the field. The Virginia Key VOR (VKZ) is 117.1 and the Dolphin VOR is 113.9.

 

Navigation freqs run from 108.0 to 117.95, communications frequencies from 118.0 to 136.875.

 

As you zoom in and out on skyvector the maps you can select change. At one point I saw Atlanta, so I clicked on it and it turns out to be the Atlanta sectional chart. In the upper left of the Atlanta chart is a map legend. Look for a box called "Radio Aids To Navigation" and note the various symbols there that represent VORs, VORTACs, NDBs, etc. Those are the symbols you look for to find the VORs and such. Note that the Miami area is so crowded with stuff that it's difficult to find a place to put identifying text, so it takes a bit of hunting.

+1 Larry! The OP needs to get away from the metro Miami area, not a good place to learn Radio Navigation, ATC etc! I think he would be better served moving a little north and practice making runs from, say, West Palm Beach (KPBI) to Melbourne, FL (KMLB) and do a return flight. He can get everything he gets down south, only with a whole lot less congestion!

 

Rick :cool:

Larry - That brings me to a funny story. My grandfather had a Cessna 180 and his friend that owned the private strip in Ohio where Grandpa used to keep his plane, also had a Cessna 180, same colors, but striping a little different on the friend's 180. The friend wanted to fly from NW Ohio to Miami Florida, asked Grandpa to ride along for moral support.The trip down went fine until they were ready to land at Miami International (yes, two Old Hoots flying into Miami)! Miami had cleared them to land, and they began their approach into what they thought was Miami (it was actually Homestead AFB). They landed and both were taken back by all the military vehicles which surrounded their plane, guns and all pointed at them. When they got the mistake all worked out to the authorities there, the Air Force provided them with ground transportation to and back from friends/relatives houses where they would be staying. When they returned to their plane, the Air Force had even topped off their fuel and when saying their goodbyes, the AF officers "wished them a safe trip home" and were told not to come back to Homestead Air Force base! This was back in the late 50's, early 60's! I don't know what Al had in his 180 for radios, all my grandfather had in his 180 was a Narco SuperHomer! We called them coffee grinders. Anyway, just a air story about 2 old "Hoots" who lost their way!

 

Rick

Avionics have come a long ways since the coffee grinders. I only flew with them a few times, and they were no fun. I love the 180. I have over 320 hours towing gliders, much of it in a C-180, and some of my banner towing was with a C-180, as well, not to mention lots of good memories. It's a very versatile aircraft. Here I am on very short final (I needed almost 200 ft. over the fence to clear the tow rope) in a very rapid descent. Note the faint tow rope almost level with the aircraft -- it normally hangs low.

 

I've seen a tow plane with a winch system, so they didn't trail the rope, but mst that I saw didn't. Had to watch that rope!

 

I had a near midair in a glider with a tow plane. I was orbiting the fairgrounds in Calistoga, watching the cars practise for that nite's race, about 1000' AGL and trying to loose altitude to 800 AGL so I could enter the pattern. I was keeping up my scan, of all 3 instruments I had, checking around the plane, watching the sprint cars for a second, etc etc.

I looked up after on instrument scan, and lo and behold, I'm on a collision course with a tow plane, with glider on tow. The adrenaline surged, time slowed, and I flipped the glider up into a spin. I had been in a turn anyway, tight, and slow, so a spin was easy to do real quick. I recovered about 850' AGL and headed for the big orange Union 76 ball that was the start of the pattern. I must have shook for a good 1/2 hour after I got out. I was 15, had been for a week, and had recently solo'd. The tow pilot apologized profusely, having seen my plane filling his windscreen, then suddenly spinning out of the way, saying it was his fault for not keeping a proper look out, but it wasn't anyone's fault. It just happened.

Still, really got my head out of the cockpit!! I couldn't fly for 2 days after, and I loved to fly those gliders.

 

Oh, yeah, no radios at all in those Calistoga gliders. Still don't have any in the tour planes.

At least there weren't. I don't think they still have the glider school, or give tours there any more, but I may be wrong...

 

Have fun, all!

Pat☺

Wow, Pat, at 15 years old, that would have scared the "B Jesus" out of anyone! They give cats "9" lives, and apparently they have given you more than "1". So glad you are still around to talk about it!

 

Things can happen so fast in flying! When learning to fly, clearing turns are taught and enforced thruout your training and that carries over into your PPL checkride. You better show it then, for sure!

 

Thanks for sharing! Rick :cool:

Hey Guys n Gals,

 

Newbie here to the world of flying VOR. Rather than just flying around, I have grown up and decided I want to fly to other places and actually know where I am going. In watching a plethora of vor instruction videos, I still cannot figure out how to enter the frequency into my NAV 1 Radio.

 

My first assignment to myself is to go FROM Miami Executive airport 118.90 and fly TO Miami International Airport 118.30

 

After receiving the frequency of 118.30 for the Miami International Airport VOR via skyvector.com, I am trying to enter it into the Nav1 frequency area of Nav 1 Radio. Whats funny is I have not seen anyone in a training video, type in anything more than 117.00 in Nav 1. It simply will not allow me to type in a 118.00 or greater frequency in the NAV1 or even NAV 2 area of either NAV radios. If I select Comm 1 it allows me to do that. However, I need to NAVigate to the 118.30 VOR. Am I doing something wrong?

 

It seems like NAV 1 or Nav 2 frequencies are not allowed to be higher than 117.00

 

I simply want to fly from one vor (airport) to another vor (Airport) 10 miles away. As a test and my first successful VOR flight. Please help me understand this. Thanks in advance

 

Tec

 

What sim are you using?

There are a number of inaccuracies in your post which will be answered by the Learning Center, if you are using FSX.

 

The Learning Center is always the first place to learn the lessons, as it is tied to aircraft in the sim and accommodates all the inaccuracies of that sim.

 

And you've paid for it...

Thanks for explaining that. Makes perfect sense. It figures, I try to do my first lesson, and its not possible via the Vor to Vor method. How would I fly from airport to airport if I dont have vor freq's? Im really surprised that KMIA does not have a VOR? I did look at the visual aids and nothing on the property that I could see. There is a Vortac west of the airport - DHPr099/3.2 DOLPHIN VORTAC @113.90 04W. It does put me west of the runways. I was expecting that all vor's were on the property. I am obviously not knowledgable enough to know. I was using the heading of 04W to manually fly to KMIA but it wasnt what I was expecting.

I am using FSX Steam version. Im not understanding what your saying about the inaccuracies of the sim? Larry explained it very well I think. There are no Vor's on either properties. I looked them up on skyvector and only Dolphin Vortac was west of the airport, not physically on the property. Kind of odd but I guess it is what it is. Thanks for your reply

Once you get to the DOLPHIN VORTAC, on a course of 272°, you should be able to pick up the desired runway's localizer. Actually, it should show before you arrive at DOLPHIN.

 

If you want to actually land at KMIA, you need to plan on which runway you want to use before you take off, and have it's localizer frequency dialed into your NAV1 radio. Check your forecasted winds (and all other weather, naturally) before you depart so you know which runway to expect the ATC, if you're using ATC, to assign you. You should listen to the ATIS information for KMIA as soon as you can pick it up. Usually, COM2 Active frequency is used for ATIS, so you can continue to properly communicate with the ATC , or CTAF, on COM1. It will tell you the current winds at the airport, as well as the active runway. You may, or may not, have to adjust your flight plan to take into account a change in surface winds, a runway blockage, and so on, and have the correct course info, and localizer frequency for the new runway readily available to dial into your NAV1. You should have the frequency for DOLPHIN in your NAV2.

 

You should also be aware of what instrument indicates off which NAV radio, and just exactly HOW it indicates the information desired.

 

You should also have an alternate airport planned for. Weather can close in suddenly, a plane could crash on the runway, closing the airport you want, you name it. Be ready to navigate to your chosen alternate, have it's ATIS, ATC, and localizer frequencies, if any, readily available, courses for runways, the whole nine yards. Be ready to treat it as the airport you were going to land at the whole time.

Once you get good at navigating to and landing at your desired airport, practise having to use the chosen alternate. It's a good idea to be just as good at using an alternate as a primary.

 

Rick, thanks! It DID scare me no end. I still have no idea how I managed to land properly after that incident. I just don't remember the actual landing at all, from the time I entered the pattern until I walked into the office. I couldn't even fill out my logbook, I was shaking so hard. My Instructor filled it out for me, that flight.

I must have made a decent landing, because I was able to "taxi" the glider into it's parking spot. That was a little trick I practised constantly. Made it so I didn't have to get out and push the thing :D Not easy for a scrawny kid, believe me!

 

Have fun all!

Pat☺

Im really surprised that KMIA does not have a VOR?

Very few airports have a VOR on the field (some do, but not many), though most (most, not all) U.S. airports are in radio reception range of a VOR.

 

How would I fly from airport to airport if I dont have vor freq's?

It's usually done visually, especially for such a short distance. If necessary due to weather, and if you're instrument rated (real world), then you can file an instrument flight plan from one airport to another, using whatever navaids are needed, including VORs, localizers and/or ILSs, NDBs, radar vectors and/or GPS. VORs are not just for flying TO -- you can fly various radials (360 of them, in fact) to and from, not limited as NDBs are. In any case, if you're going longer distances you can use VORs to get from the general vicinity of one airport to the general vicinity of another airport.

 

Do you see (on skyvector near Miami again) those light blue (actually cyan) thin lines, one going southwest from the Dolphin VOR labeled V157, and another going almost straight south (195º, actually) and labeled V3? Those are Victor airways, literally electronic highways in the sky, and are used for longer distance travel when IFR (Instrument Flight Rules). You'll find them coming off of most (all??) VORs going various places.

 

I try to do my first lesson, and its not possible via the Vor to Vor method.

And I have never used VORs on the first (or second or 5th) lesson with real world students, either. First, you have to learn to fly the airplane, then you need to learn to take off and land, then you need a bit of solo time and some additional training which will (real world) include enough about VOR and GPS (depending on how the aircraft is equipped) to enable you to have a backup to visual for the dual and then solo cross country flights that are required. My first solo cross countries were in an Aeronca Chief (the one in my signature) with no radios, not even an electrical system. Eyeballs and chart did the job just fine, and this was well after solo and additional training.

 

Im not understanding what your saying about the inaccuracies of the sim?

Well, the database in the sim that contains navaids, radio frequencies airways, and much more date back to (probably) 2005 or so, a little while before the sim was released. FAA instrument charts are updated every 56 days (to the extent needed) and even the sectional charts (visual charts as you see on skyvector) are updated every six months or so. Radio frequencies change, airports are decommissioned, new radio towers and other obstructions are built and some are torn down, some airport and/or FAA facilities are changed, added or removed, and so on. Imagine how much of this has happened in the 13 plus years that FSX has been around. And Mallcott is also right that the built in lessons only use that information built in to the sim, not the updated real world stuff that skyvector and other resources reflect, so all your information is "up to date" in relation to the sim, not confused by real world changes.

 

Let me offer additional reading suggestions:

faa.gov has all the current regulations, handbooks, manuals and much more available. On this page you can find a link to the FAA handbooks and manuals, including the Aeronautical Information Manual, Pilot/Controller Glossary, and others including the Airplane Flying Handbook, Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge and many more.

 

You might be starting to get a hint why the FAA requires a minimum of 40 hours of flying, plus a hefty ground school just to get a Private certificate (some countries require more). There's a LOT to know.

 

If all you want to do is fly on autopilot from one airport to another, not minding a lot of crash landings, then GPS is a better alternative, but if you want to actually get good usage out of the sim, then my suggestion would be to learn how to fly the aircraft first, doing as mallcott says by first doing the lessons themselves, following what the instructor says to do, and it won't start with VOR usage.

 

Good luck.

I am using FSX Steam version. Im not understanding what your saying about the inaccuracies of the sim? Larry explained it very well I think. There are no Vor's on either properties. I looked them up on skyvector and only Dolphin Vortac was west of the airport, not physically on the property. Kind of odd but I guess it is what it is. Thanks for your reply

 

Inaccuracies include expecting a VOR where none exists. Finding out whether one exists is certainly one of those things that becomes obvious after using the Learning Center. Clue: Use Map or query the GPS...

 

There is much to be learned. The Learning Center is the place to learn it.

Thanks Larry for taking the time to write all of that out. I really appreciate your help and the help of the others out here. I have always had a fascination for flying. I have spent many hours learning the 172 and have stayed with that plane to familiarize myself with one plane and not flying a bunch of different planes that may confuse matters. The most important thing for me logically, was communicating with the tower, how to taxi, instrumentation and knowing their roles. The parts of the plane and the concepts. Then pre-flight check, then flight checklist, taking off, entering a traffic pattern, landing the plane, under deplorable weather conditions, etc. I have quite a few hours learning and doing that from my local airport in South Miami (SIM). I have a friend thats a commercial pilot and he mentioned Vor's, so I looked into those as a way to travel from point A to point B. However I am learning that there are many ways to get from a to b. Sounds like GPS is the best way. lol. Anyway, I am doing this on my own, and learning the ropes. I may never actually fly, Im almost 60 years old, but I sure do love it. Its definitely a bucket list item, as Its addicting for me. My friend also told me about the FAA resources. I have ordered a few books. On another note, is there a way to run the lessons with the plane you desire in FSX?. I love my ata 172. I know where everything is, I know the pre-checks, instruments, etc. Being able to fly the lessons with my own plane would be awesome. I also, wish I could practice landing without having to enter the pattern and flying out so far. Very time consuming. Thanks everyone for your help. One thing I can tell all of you, I will be back with seemingly stupid questions, but only doing it to get to where you guys are, even though I may never get there. Our passions are the same. Peace!!

"One thing I can tell all of you, I will be back with seemingly stupid questions, but only doing it to get to where you guys are, even though I may never get there. Our passions are the same."

 

As the old saying goes, "the only dumb (you say stupid) question is the one you didn't ask!" We all started from somewhere, some of us have gone the PPL and higher ratings route, some have decided to do the self training method via Flight Simulator programs. In my opinion, I think learning the RW basics of flight is easier because you have a flight instructor in the cockpit to assist and explain all the various phases of the instructions! Yes, the training is intense, but it has to be! Upon solo, you will be given the opportunity to fly alone, responsible for yourself, your airplane and the general public within your flight area. Oh, and I have seen people pursue formal flight lessons at 60+ years of age. If you can pass a third class medical and can afford the high rates for rental aircraft these days, why not? I'm 70 years old now, have had my PPL for almost 53 years now, not active due to health issues and the high rental rates limit me to flying from my family room! Yes, we all have the passion for this thing called flight! Stick with it, you will get out of it, whatever you chose to put into it. Some use FSX as a game, others who take it more seriously, use it as a flight simulator, which is where myself and others who used to fly RW, can continue to enjoy the adventures of flight, without the high cost of doing so! Good luck to you tecboy, and continue to enjoy the sim and this site for any questions or concerns you may have!

 

Rick :cool:

I may never actually fly, Im almost 60 years old, but I sure do love it. Its definitely a bucket list item, as Its addicting for me.

As Rick says, if you can swing the money and the time, there's no reason you can't pursue it now. I've had students in the past that were nearly as old as you are (I'm 76), so it's feasible. One thing you certainly CAN do is to go to your local flight school and take an introductory ride, or even an hour of instruction, just to get the experience. It'll be an eye opener.

 

is there a way to run the lessons with the plane you desire in FSX?. I love my ata 172.

I've never taken those FS lessons, since I'd been teaching flying for many years before there WAS an FS, but I've read a lot about them in various posts on this site, and it seems they're a good place to start for one with no background. So, sorry I can't answer about using a different aircraft with the lessons -- chances are there is one or more people here that know, though.