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Thread: does anyone know if the bf109 can fly inverted?

  1. Default does anyone know if the bf109 can fly inverted?

    considering that it is fuel injected I always assumed the 109 could fly inverted no problems ? I recall the spitfire had problems because it was not fuel injected.

    I did some testing are these results normal?


  2. #2
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    IIRC, the correct answer is yes, but...

    The engine didn't care, as you say, because it's injected, ut the fuel pumps/tanks don't have any form of inverted feeds. No upsidedown intake pipes, pressurized tanks, etc. So for a short period, yes it will fly inverted, and the engine will continue to run, but they need to keep positive G on to KEEP the engine running for more than a short time.
    The Spitfires, being carbeurated, couldn't go inverted as long, because as soon as they did, the fuel was removed from the jets, so no more combustion.

    I might be wrong on all this, though. If you tell me what the plane's zipfile is named, if it's freeware, anyway, I can tell you if they designed it to run inverted.

    Does that completely not answer your question?
    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomTweak View Post
    IIRC, the correct answer is yes, but...

    The engine didn't care, as you say, because it's injected, ut the fuel pumps/tanks don't have any form of inverted feeds. No upsidedown intake pipes, pressurized tanks, etc. So for a short period, yes it will fly inverted, and the engine will continue to run, but they need to keep positive G on to KEEP the engine running for more than a short time.
    The Spitfires, being carbeurated, couldn't go inverted as long, because as soon as they did, the fuel was removed from the jets, so no more combustion.

    I might be wrong on all this, though. If you tell me what the plane's zipfile is named, if it's freeware, anyway, I can tell you if they designed it to run inverted.

    Does that completely not answer your question?
    Pat☺
    So do you know if pilots were told to avoid inverted flight in combat?

  4. Default

    Doing a quick search I couldn't find anything other than that the engine is actually inverted.

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    So do you know if pilots were told to avoid inverted flight in combat?
    As far as I am aware, they were told to maintain positive G at all times. Like, no outside loops, and so on. There are any number of ways to maneuver in just about any axis, while maintaining positive G on the plane.

    Even today, the modern fighters only have a very limited time inverted. Like the F/A-18C only has a 10 second inverted flight tank, at MIL power or below, in AB, 5 seconds at most. Having a dual flame-out during a dogfight would be a really bad thing indeed! They still try to maintain positive G whenever possible, and limit their time under negative G conditions whenever possible.

    Remember, special demonstration teams, like the Blue Angels, have some modifications to permit slightly longer inverted time, but it's still pretty limited. Don't believe movies and such, like Top Gun. I never timed the scene where they're canopy-to-canopy, "communicating", but I have a funny feeling if they did it for real, the F-14 would have been in trouble.

    Like I said, this IS a simulator, and things can be made to do a lot of stuff they couldn't IRL. Changing the proper setting in the aircraft.cfg, you can make most any plane capable of unlimited inverted flight.
    Just so you know.

    Does all this rambling help at all?
    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomTweak View Post
    As far as I am aware, they were told to maintain positive G at all times. Like, no outside loops, and so on. There are any number of ways to maneuver in just about any axis, while maintaining positive G on the plane.

    Even today, the modern fighters only have a very limited time inverted. Like the F/A-18C only has a 10 second inverted flight tank, at MIL power or below, in AB, 5 seconds at most. Having a dual flame-out during a dogfight would be a really bad thing indeed! They still try to maintain positive G whenever possible, and limit their time under negative G conditions whenever possible.

    Remember, special demonstration teams, like the Blue Angels, have some modifications to permit slightly longer inverted time, but it's still pretty limited. Don't believe movies and such, like Top Gun. I never timed the scene where they're canopy-to-canopy, "communicating", but I have a funny feeling if they did it for real, the F-14 would have been in trouble.

    Like I said, this IS a simulator, and things can be made to do a lot of stuff they couldn't IRL. Changing the proper setting in the aircraft.cfg, you can make most any plane capable of unlimited inverted flight.
    Just so you know.

    Does all this rambling help at all?
    Pat☺
    Did you see the video of the 109 going inverted for 10 seconds at an airshow then crashing due to fuel starvation ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by il2crashesnfails View Post
    Did you see the video of the 109 going inverted for 10 seconds at an airshow then crashing due to fuel starvation ?
    No, but I think that kinda proves my point, no?

    If he had just made it a slow barrel roll, he would have been fine! Positive G all the way around, no trouble.

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    But noooooo! He had to just putter along inverted. Starved the engine to death. I just hope the engine didn't return the favor!

    Have fun, all!
    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

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