Can a bf109 hit mach 1?

I did a test the best way I could to see if I could hit mach 1 in a bf109

few strange things happened. Can anyone explain why the engine cut out in steep dive?

Can anyone explain why the engine cut out in steep dive?

You're not adjusting the Mixture fast enough, and it's leaned beyond the engine's running parameters. Too lean, not enough fuel for the thicker air coming into the engine as you dive lower rapidly, engine dies of fuel starvation, essentially.

few strange things happened.

What other "strange things" happened? As they approach M1, straight-wing planes encounter problems with an effect called "compressibility." There's a long list of problems and causes to "compressibility". Like the Mach-wave removing the airflow over the tail surfaces, removing control.

Lockheed was working on this problem twords the end of the war. It' what they added dive flaps to the P-38 for, so they could, hopefully, slow down enough to regain control. Things like that.

It's why planes capable of supersonic flight have swept wings and tail surfaces, as well as the famous "flying tail" of the F-86.

Hope this helps a little...

Pat☺

Maybe is interesting to read why Spitfire reached Mach 0.9:

https://www.aerosociety.com/media/4953/the-aerodynamics-of-the-spitfire.pdf

Section 5 and 6 for easy reading.

Video doesn't work.

You're not adjusting the Mixture fast enough, and it's leaned beyond the engine's running parameters. Too lean, not enough fuel for the thicker air coming into the engine as you dive lower rapidly, engine dies of fuel starvation, essentially.

 

 

What other "strange things" happened? As they approach M1, straight-wing planes encounter problems with an effect called "compressibility." There's a long list of problems and causes to "compressibility". Like the Mach-wave removing the airflow over the tail surfaces, removing control.

 

Lockheed was working on this problem twords the end of the war. It' what they added dive flaps to the P-38 for, so they could, hopefully, slow down enough to regain control. Things like that.

 

It's why planes capable of supersonic flight have swept wings and tail surfaces, as well as the famous "flying tail" of the F-86.

 

Hope this helps a little...

Pat☺

the strange thing is I actually hit 900 and pulled out of the dive, to your knowledge can a 109 actually go that fast without breaking inflight?

thanks for info !

thats the link dunno why it didnt work :(

HAHAHAHA That was good. Be hell of a ride. How do you have grass? Is that an add-on? Looks like your left flap flew off it did. HAHAHA

HAHAHAHA That was good. Be hell of a ride. How do you have grass? Is that an add-on? Looks like your left flap flew off it did. HAHAHA

Yeah flap and elevator flew of, made landing difficult!

Maybe is interesting to read why Spitfire reached Mach 0.9:

 

https://www.aerosociety.com/media/4953/the-aerodynamics-of-the-spitfire.pdf

 

Section 5 and 6 for easy reading.

was reading just before it hit over 1000 and the prop broke off!

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160505-the-spitfires-that-nearly-broke-the-sound-barrier

I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't bet on it. I'd wager you'd loose a lot more than your flap and elevator. Like the wings, maybe.

By the same token, there were more than one P-51 chasing the ME-262's that either came close to M1.0, or maybe exceeded it. It's hard to say for sure. I'd like to say some, if not most, of the ones that may have exceeded it wound up as smoking craters, so no first hand witnesses.

There were a few, though, that did what things they could to slow down. Drop the gear, throw on some flaps, cut the engine back, ANYthing they could think of. Some even survived :)

It's such a great loss, that so many pilots from then have passed on, now, and most without talking about their experiences. It's a huge loss of knowledge and experience.

I can understand their retisense, though. There's some experiences military guys, whether ground pounders, or fly-boys, simply will not talk about, no matter who asks, or how important someone thinks they are.

Sorry, I ramble. You might check on some of Chuck Yeager's experiences, though. Wasn't he a Mustang pilot in WWII?

Pat☺

Sorry, I ramble. You might check on some of Chuck Yeager's experiences, though. Wasn't he a Mustang pilot in WWII?

Pat☺

Yeah, Pretty sure he was!

I guess the me-262 would be the pick for the fastest in dive of that era!

thanks for info!

Yeah, Pretty sure he was!

 

I guess the me-262 would be the pick for the fastest in dive of that era!

thanks for info!

The P-51 drivers could, occasionally, take advantage of the ME-262's tactics, though.

The 262's used diving, slashing attacks on bomber formations. Start up high, where their engines worked better than any prop plane's would, push over and dive at the enemy formations, firing when in range. They'd keep right on going, too, after they cleared the formation, and RTB. Dive down low, and get back on the ground ASAP. Most were out of fuel by then anyway.

The Mustang pilots who managed to detect them in time would follow them into the dive, pushing their planes to their top speed, and maybe a bit above. But, if they could get close enough to the 262, they would shoot them down. It didn't matter if they were low and slow, still in a dive, out of gas, whatever. A lot of 262's were shot down right on their final approach.

The trick, for the P-51's, was to be able to pull out of their dive, while keeping track of the 262. It was very easy to overshoot their pull-out point, and, well...

Best solution, IMHO, for what it's worth, is not to get into a bad situation.

But hey, whadda I know? :D

Pat☺

The P-51 drivers could, occasionally, take advantage of the ME-262's tactics, though.

The 262's used diving, slashing attacks on bomber formations. Start up high, where their engines worked better than any prop plane's would, push over and dive at the enemy formations, firing when in range. They'd keep right on going, too, after they cleared the formation, and RTB. Dive down low, and get back on the ground ASAP. Most were out of fuel by then anyway.

The Mustang pilots who managed to detect them in time would follow them into the dive, pushing their planes to their top speed, and maybe a bit above. But, if they could get close enough to the 262, they would shoot them down. It didn't matter if they were low and slow, still in a dive, out of gas, whatever. A lot of 262's were shot down right on their final approach.

The trick, for the P-51's, was to be able to pull out of their dive, while keeping track of the 262. It was very easy to overshoot their pull-out point, and, well...

 

Best solution, IMHO, for what it's worth, is not to get into a bad situation.

But hey, whadda I know? :D

Pat☺

Cite your sources? It is my understanding that P-51 and P-47 pilots soon realised the futility of chasing the 262 at combat altitudes but also realised the slow throttle response and need to land back at base at `normal` speeds gave `opportunity` and they soon figured out a `cab rank`approach where allied aircraft would stooge around until they saw the unique plume of a ME-262 on approach and would boom and zoom in a surprise attack.

Of course the Luftwaffe realised this too and took to putting large quantities of flak all along the approach route which claimed a large number of allied fighters.

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/german-262s-shot-down.34553/

And for our OP no, the ME 109 could not get even close to Mach 1. Compressibility effects start at around Mach 0.80 and by 0.87 aircraft were barely controllable. Limit speed in a dive for a `G` is listed in the manual as 749 km/h and Mach 0.80 would be around 910 km/h at 20,000 ft

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-Manuals.html

So it could not achieve Mach 1... not ever.

Bit of a detour, but interesting all the same:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160505-the-spitfires-that-nearly-broke-the-sound-barrier

Good article!

Dominic